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Thread: The Philosopher's Matter

  1. #11
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    This grey earth is the dust in the air, that gives the ability to the water to form a snowflake ,to crystallize and to form, in my opinion.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

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    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    .....This is becoming a more and more accepted idea among geologists that gold formation owed to biological activity,....

    Heres another : The occurrence of sulfur and phosphorus within bacterially derived crystalline and pseudocrystalline octahedral gold formed in vitro

    A temperature study (4C, room temperature, 60C and 90C) employing a bacterial in vitro model (Southam and Beveridge, 1994) revealed a role for S and P in octahedral An formation. Ionic Au immobilized by Bacillus subtilis 168 was first precipitated as colloidal Au. During diagenesis, these colloids were transformed into spherical pseudocrystalline gold particles composed of 74.56 2.60 at% Au, 8.56 1.71 at% S, and 13.94 1.48 at% P. These minerals then aggregated as roughly shaped noncrystalline octahedral Au which was subsequently transformed into crystalline octahedral Au containing 85.37 0.16 at% Au (the maximum detected[, 0.77 1.33 at% S, and 10.27 0.88 at% P. The strong P signals (13.39 2.01 average at%[ obtained from the Au minerals examined by energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy suggest that organic phosphate compounds also play a role in the in vitro development of octahedral Au, possibly as bacteria-Au-complexing agents. Increasing the time to 4 weeks at room temperature or the temperature to either 60C or 90C enhanced formation of the crystalline octahedral gold. This crystalline octahedral Au generated an electron diffraction pattern consistent with synthetic Au.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    OK, then...



    If you study magical correspondences, you'll learn that not only metals have ruling planets/gods, but also plants and animals, as well as nations, locations and dates/times.
    yeah, that's common sense interpretation, but IMVHO there is something more in it. while, for exemple in Agrippa's magic, we can find lists of stones, plants, metals, bodily parts,etc. ruled by a planet, as pertaining to its analogical domain, in alchemical texts metals, planets and gods are simply used as synonims.
    the mineral kingdom, in following the very strict laws of crystalisation, manifests in a more archetypal and non mediated way the underlying divine spiritual principle than plants and animals.
    so, if we rank the kingdoms in order of semplicity and proximity to god, we happen to be quite in the external periphery.
    please, in considering this, try to get rid of the post-socratic anthropocentric perspective we are all imbued of.

    and it is exactly regarding where to inercept the (rightly) universal "matter" in its descent, that classical texts tell us that the best place to do it is the mineral metallic root. we can argue that they were all envious, but then we can make them say anything we like.

    with humility
    t

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by teofrast40 View Post
    Please, in considering this, try to get rid of the post-socratic anthropocentric perspective we are all imbued of.
    I think that "Know Yourself" is the key to unlock the whole of Creation.

    In addition to that, from my own perspective:

    The Macro-Mercuries of Earth and the Micro-Mercuries of Man do NOT belong to any of the three Kingdoms, but are the unrefined quintessences of all of them combined.

    Other than that, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what the optimal point of interception should be
    Last edited by Andro; 03-06-2010 at 03:38 PM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by teofrast40 View Post
    and it is exactly regarding where to inercept the (rightly) universal "matter" in its descent, that classical texts tell us that the best place to do it is the mineral metallic root. we can argue that they were all envious, but then we can make them say anything we like.
    Sorry,.... but No, they don't say that.....they say over and over again that what is specified, (and minerals and especially metals are specified) is surely not universal. Do you know what universal means? If I have something universal, then I have something common to all things and thus to all kingdoms.....mineral, vegetable and animal alike. Metals you will find as I have worked with them for the better part of these ten-twelve years are for the most part dead and ineffectual, that they are needed to complete the great work I will not argue, but by the time they are made ready to join our living matter they might as well not be called metals at all any more, for in this state they will not be recognizable as what they once were, nor can they be reduced back into a metal. Surely to be effectual they must be reduced to their first matter , that is the first step, do you what that is? The first matter of metals is as they were taken in the caves and mines from which they are found, for surely a miner never picked up a piece of iron from the ground and started pounding it out into a sword, nor ever dug up a bright, shiny lump of copper. Why do we need metals at all, well we really don't, we need the masculine seed, the red man, their sulfur, to unite him to his white wife, but don't be mislead all metals are devoid of the feminine seed no matter how hermaphroditic they may seem and this goes for silver. There are only two matters that I know of that contain the mercuries of the philosophers and they are surely feminine and this I know for sure and can be certain that it is only a female that gives birth, increase and sustenance to all things. Surely all philosophers who are not sophists and liars know the truth of the matter and will not lead you astray on this point, else they are blinded, and that is that the first matter of the philosophers stone is a water It is a fat mercurial water, it can best be described as a mineral water but only because that is what it resembles, but it gives birth to all kingdoms and is the progenitor of all things it is a water and no water. It is a slimy earth to be sure and not a water at all and can be found in desolate houses as John Dee says. When it is ready to give birth to minerals and metals as you seek Teofrast it descends into the caves and mines of man where it seeks out the masculine spermatick seed, and with it and only with it is it made pregnant and coagulated into a mineral, following the rule of law laid down under the golden chain of homer, and becoming the metal under which planet's rule/influence it is destined to become or borne under. But at this point has become specified and no longer universal, surely any fool can see. Surely you can see that once coagulated into a solid corpreal form, the feminine seed cannot be taken from a metal or any mineral.

    Animals and plants on the other hand, must die, and when they do they release the feminine seed, for they can not hold it like a mineral or metal does, nor is it coagulated permanently into them for I can squash them and burn them and they will be gone back into the dust from which they came and surely one day you too and even I will be reduced to the same dust and if metals did ever get old and die if lead or copper did ever grow a flowing white beard and be taken to using a cane to get around then maybe then I could agree with you that it could be taken from a mineral or metal. But as much that I know about minerals and metals is that they are quite stable in the fire.

    For in order to be reborn and attain perfection a living thing must die and be reborn as the phoenix does. This cycle of death and rebirth is found in the two living kingdoms and thus if I ever hope to encounter its specified, non universal state I should seek it in those two kingdoms, lest I should return to the pursuit of its more universal state and seek it from the dust of stars and God.............

    Ashes to ashes dust to dust.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    This cycle of death and rebirth is found in the two living kingdoms and thus if I ever hope to encounter its specified, non universal state I should seek it in those two kingdoms, lest I should return to the pursuit of its more universal state and seek it from the dust of stars and God.............
    hallo leo,
    it seems that you consider mineral kingdom as a dead place.
    sorry, but to me this is not very alchemical. I hope you would not deny that alchemy considers minerals as living entities, whose lifespan has a much larger timeframe than mixts in the others kingdoms, because their principles are more fixed.
    could it be that, these principles being less dynamics and volatile, are more easily captured and manipulated by the artist?
    the origins of alchemy are quite linked to metallurgy, please consider the Cabires of Samotracia or Idaean Dactyls.
    and many, many texts pre XVII century talk about the generation of metals, and cite the other reigns only as exemples to clarify life in mineral kingdom.
    I very much respect your lab research, but let me ask you a question.
    Philosophical mercury is said to dissolve metals and coagulate vulgar mercury at room temperature. did you, or someone else here, attain this?

    with humility

    t
    Last edited by teofrast40; 03-07-2010 at 04:38 PM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by teofrast40 View Post
    Philosophical mercury is said to dissolve metals and coagulate vulgar mercury at room temperature. did you, or someone else here, attain this?
    I don't work with vulgar mercury at all but why do you think mercury isn't already coagulated, what you speak of is surely not alchemy.

    Mercury is already coagulated, just because it is liquid at room temperature doesn't mean its not coagulated, maybe you should make a closer study of what is meant by the alchemical term ,coagulation. I can freeze mercury and it will become solid, is this coagulation? , certainly not. Mercury is just like any other metal, it is corporeal.
    It was coagulated at the moment it became solid matter and cannot be remade, the feminine spermatick seed that gave birth to it has been coagulated by the masculine sulfur that wed it. The feminine cannot be extracted from it, for if you could it would cease to be mercury the metal and return of the first matter of metals, sorry if you can't grasp this concept yet, it is highly alchemical in nature and maybe counter-intuitive to what we are taught about the world and certainly contrary to scientific opinion. The solve and coagula operations of alchemy are not sophistical operations (chemical). They occur on other planes of existence other dimensions, there are reproductive spirits alive and flowing in the nature of the movement of the celestial bodies through the sky. Solve as the moon waxes and coagulate as the moon wanes, there is a spiritual reductive spirit that has the power to solve and it increases as the moon becomes fuller and lessens as the moon moves away, this idea is surely not sophistical! Remember the works of the good Baron?
    Last edited by LeoRetilus; 03-08-2010 at 05:03 AM.

  8. #18
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    hi leo,
    I'm afraid you did not understand my question.
    I am not telling you to work on vulgar mercury.
    what I was talking about is a way to test the universal solvent (or Alkaest, not philosophical mercury, sorry, I mistaked here), as it is said -I believe by Fulcanelli, but I cannot find the sentence right now- to dissolve solid metals and coagulate Hg a room temperature. In dissolving metals, it drains out of them their living viscous mercurial principle, or radical humidity. inside this radical humidity lies hidden the sulphur, Astrum interior, chained prometeus or gravitationally trapped light. these two (sulphur and merkur, earth-fire and water-air) must die, putrefy and return to life in a new androginous bipolar equilibrium to become philosophical mercury.
    regarding solve et coagula, I agree with what you say.

    with humility
    t

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by teofrast40 View Post
    hi leo,
    I'm afraid you did not understand my question.
    I am not telling you to work on vulgar mercury.
    what I was talking about is a way to test the universal solvent (or Alkaest, not philosophical mercury, sorry, I mistaked here), as it is said -I believe by Fulcanelli, but I cannot find the sentence right now- to dissolve solid metals and coagulate Hg a room temperature. In dissolving metals, it drains out of them their living viscous mercurial principle, or radical humidity. inside this radical humidity lies hidden the sulphur, Astrum interior, chained prometeus or gravitationally trapped light. these two (sulphur and merkur, earth-fire and water-air) must die, putrefy and return to life in a new androginous bipolar equilibrium to become philosophical mercury.
    regarding solve et coagula, I agree with what you say.

    with humility
    t
    Thanks I think I know what you mean now, yes it renders them a brittle spongy mass, quicksilver included from what I understand but have not personally verified it on mercury the metal.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    Thanks I think I know what you mean now, yes it renders them a brittle spongy mass, quicksilver included from what I understand but have not personally verified it on mercury the metal.
    "Are you saying drains out only" ??

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