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Thread: The Philosopher's Matter

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleilius View Post
    Now, the next question we should ask ourselves is quite simple: what is the philosopher's matter? It is the million dollar question.

    Our matter is represented by the Black Madonna, and the black stone of the wise. What is our matter? Is it not the stone that the builders rejected? Is it not a vile matter?

    I'm ready for that million dollars now.

    This matter is indeed in the mineral kingdom alone. It is not contained in
    the human being that I know of and cannot be urinated or defecated.


    It is indeed the stone the builders rejected - and this fits a modern context
    more than I can imagine an ancient one.

    It is vile - you don't want to breathe it.
    I'm not sure why looking at it would harm one. I suppose if you are close
    enough to see it, you are likely to be breathing it.

    This stone is indeed an oddity of nature. When we consider other minerals
    and ores, they all have pretty much similar features - be it stibnite, massicot,
    marcasite... the dragon image doesn't help IMO. There are hundreds of
    minerals that are spiky or bumpy... hundreds covered by a crust
    or exhibiting various colors upon interacting with the air....

    This minera can look like many of those others, as it's component elements
    are nothing exceptional, unusual or exotic. But it can also appear unlike any stone,
    and if I told you how, directly, without symbolism or allegory, I fear I would
    give it away, as it is the only minera I am aware of to exhibit such appearance in
    nature. But man can, and does, make some minera have this appearance (industrially speaking).


    I'll have to give this some more contemplation. Some things become very
    obvious and apparent, but some are still mysteries - a water that does not
    wet the hands? I don't see how that applies yet.
    I have to take some time and become more familiar with this matter.

    While this matter is composed of extremely common and available elements,
    to find them together, in this form, this manifestation as this
    minera, is not at all common, but it was known to the ancients.
    These uncommon ones evolve from very common ones, and i am presently
    considering if the common may be used in their stead.

    It does not crystallize as hexagons.
    But there are six of them.


    I'm currently trying to figure out if one has to begin with these specific
    materials or if they can be evolved in the lab or even substituted, for the
    maleness and femaleness exist in many common minera.

    What I mean is, now that I know what makes one male and one female,
    do we need this very specific male and female, or what happens when we
    combine other males and females that are not so toxic and readily available.
    Will the mere fact of their being the male and female counterpart
    of eachother, through union, create a solvent/matrix for Sol or other metals?

    If anyone knows what I'm talking about, I'd be happy to hear from you.

    sol-dieu(r)


    ps - IMO, that Fulcanelli description does not help at all.
    Last edited by solomon levi; 07-11-2010 at 12:00 AM.

  2. #302
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    Do children play with it in the street?

    Is it to be found everywhere and at all times, even in one's own house?

    These (and many others) are all attributes of the 'Prima'.

    I do feel you may have found a very good starting point (one of many good starting points) of practical implementation for creating a Field in which IT (the 'Prima') can physically manifest as the 'Secunda' .

    In any case, these are days filled with revelations for some (hopefully many) of us, so I am equally happy for your revelations as I am for mine.

    Eventually, I believe there will be no more disagreement - because we will be hopefully speaking the same wordless not 'Green', but Golden Language
    The Highest Place You Reach Is The Place From Which You Fall

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Do children play with it in the street?

    Is it to be found everywhere and at all times, even in one's own house?

    These (and many others) are all attributes of the 'Prima'.

    I can't help it if the Philosophers contradict themselves.

    Seriously, this particular manifestation of it is toxic, so it is not played with
    or in the house in that particular composition. But there are other compositions
    with the same elements in different proportions that are completely safe
    and are in every home, and played with by children, hopefully not in the
    middle of a street.

    For example, dilute sulfurous acid (SO3) is drinkable and a medicine.
    But sulfur di-oxide (SO2) must not be inhaled, and sulfuric acid (SO4)
    cannot be ingested or inhaled. Yet we could label all of these manifestations
    as "sulfurated oxygen", or something.

    BTW - the Prima Materia is found everywhere. Obviously the Secunda
    cannot be everywhere - it's in the mineral kingdom.
    On second thought, I can see how that is not so obvious, depending on the definition.
    All matter could be seen as Secunda Materia - all bodies. But i'm referring to the
    item veiled by Philosophers under many names, the initial mineral subject.





    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    I do feel you may have found a very good starting point (one of many good starting points) of practical implementation for creating a Field in which IT (the 'Prima') can physically manifest as the 'Secunda' .

    In any case, these are days filled with revelations for some (hopefully many) of us, so I am equally happy for your revelations as I am for mine.

    Eventually, I believe there will be no more disagreement - because we will be hopefully speaking the same wordless not 'Green', but Golden Language

    Thank you Brother. I'm also looking forward to wherever this is all going.

    ps- while i was writing this, I had a very deep "I am here" moment.
    Last edited by solomon levi; 07-11-2010 at 09:47 AM.

  4. #304
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    Hi Sol and everybody,

    Black, scaly, often covered with red spots or a yellow, crumbly and dull coating, having a strong and nauseous odor which the philosophers define as toxicum et venenum, it stains fingers when it is touched and seems to assemble within itself all that which can displease.
    As far as I know the materia remota is the marcasite stibnite. It is black, scaly crumbly yellow because of the sulfur and has a odor of sulfur and sulfides which are toxic as well as the antimony itself and stain the fingers.

    To my knowledge the only other marcasite Fulcanelli has used is pyrite which is not black so it does not fit in the above description.

    I have been working with stibnite for more than 10 years. This is so obvious to me that I am surprised that such experienced guys as you are are still not sure about it.

    Philaletha (George Starkey, Alchemical Laboratory Notebook and Correspondence by W.R. Newman) was making fun of the people who don't look for the materia remota in minerals or metals. But although being a true adept he did not realize that you can make the stone out of dew, GW, rain, snow, etc.

    Zlan

  5. #305
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    Greetings Zlan.

    I don't want to discourage you from your work with antimony. I think
    some wonderful things may come of it. Maybe even a Stone.
    I was certain for several years that antimony/stibnite was the initial
    subject. It seems very obvious. The martial regulus, the star, the net - we
    know from Newman's reproduction of Newton and Starkey that it does
    all these things. But there are still some questions about it if we don't make
    the mistake of "being certain" or closing our minds. You have more
    experience than I with it - I've only made the martial regulus - so i'd be
    interested in your perspective.

    Quote Roger Bacon - Tract on Oil of Antimony:
    "Take in the Name of God and the Holy Trinity, fine and well cleansed Antimonii ore,
    which looks nice, white, pure and internally full of yellow rivulets or veins.
    It may also be full of red and blue colors and veins, which will be the best."

    Who ever saw well-cleansed antimony ore that is white, full of yellow
    rivulets, or red and blue veins?

    Fulcanelli also mentions "black, scaly, often covered with red spots or a yellow, crumbly and dull coating"

    1. Stibnite isn't black; it's a shiny silvery metallic color
    2. It isn't scaly; it's acicular - needle-like
    3. never seen red spots on it, and he says it is "often covered" with them.
    "Often" would seem to indicate, what, at least 1/3 or or more - but I've
    never seen this. Have you?
    4. On occasion, I have seen pics where it is covered with yellow, but this
    seems a very small percent. They are generally perfect silvery (Britney) spears.
    (We can all blame Vega 33 for that one. )
    5. I own a large chunk of stibnite and it doesn't stain my fingers - just leaves
    some timy crystal flakes behind.

    Does this not leave some question in your mind?
    Is the marcasite stibnite different than stibnite?

    sol
    Last edited by solomon levi; 07-11-2010 at 09:50 PM.

  6. #306
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    If I were to ignore all the authors, which can be very confusing, I think a
    simple look at this is to go to the source.

    It's called Alchemy; that is al khem, the black.
    The Egyptian hieroglyph is a section of crocodile scales:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Km_%28hieroglyph%29


    So it would seem we are looking for a black, scaly matter.
    Black is so significant that they named it "Black", so this
    should not be confused with gray or silver or any other color.
    Although there does seem to be evidence that the ancients were
    unable to distinguish between black and blue.

    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/61

    "More recent research, however, suggests that color terminology may not be so arbitrary after all. Brent Berlin and Paul Kay (Basic Color Terms: Their Universality and Evolution, 1969), to whom Cecil is indebted for much of the preceding discussion, suggest that there is a remarkable degree of uniformity in the way different cultures assign color names. In a study of 98 languages from a variety of linguistic families, they found the following "rules" seem to apply:

    1. All languages contain terms for white and black.

    2. If a language contains three terms, then it contains a term for red.

    3. If a language contains four terms, then it contains a term for either green or yellow (but not both).

    4. If a language contains five terms, then it contains terms for both green and yellow.

    5. If a language contains six terms, then it contains a term for blue.

    6. If a language contains seven terms, then it contains a term for brown.

    7. If a language contains eight or more terms, then it contains a term for purple, pink, orange, grey, or some combination of these."

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...e-three-colors

  7. #307
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    One more bit - if we are going to follow Fulcanelli, we are to believe
    that "this unfortunate subject must have fallen into disgrace with Nature.
    In truth, its appearance has nothing seductive about it."


    Marcasites and stibnite seem very beautiful to me - how about you?
    And they look similar to many other ores - too similar to think that one has
    fallen into discrace and not the other.
    If you walked into an antimony mine and saw these beautiful crystal spears
    growing, would you despise them or think them disgraced?

    Too many words - it just confuses the matter more.
    Look at the V.I.T.R.I.O.L. thread - what would be the mother of metals?
    Is there any antimony, or even any sulfur in the earth's mantle or in the first
    minerals - peridotites, or in pegmatite granites, or basalt?

    The subject of the sages, as i see it, doesn't have any sulfur in it - is not a sulfide ore.
    But don't believe me - find out for yourselves.

    If, instead of listening to others, we follow nature, and we see this aerial nitre which
    comes from the stars and interacts with the earth's atmosphere and falls to earth as rain
    and enters the earth and is the pushed back out to the surface to make minerals, plants
    and animals.... why not look at what is being pushed back out from the center?

    solomon
    Last edited by solomon levi; 07-11-2010 at 10:34 PM.

  8. #308
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    Greetings Sol,

    I'd like to tell you that I love your respectful warm hearted moderation. One can see that you have come a long way spiritually and emotionally.

    But you did not have to reply to my baby's babble with 3 posts.

    I just got up to get a glas full of powdered stibnite and asked a lady who was accidently sitting in the living room what color it was. She said black or dark grey.

    Wiki says: "Color Lead-gray, tarnishing blackish or iridescent; in polished section, white"

    It's only silverish when polished or as a regulus.

    A number of years ago I was sitting in Jean Dubuis' living room in France.
    You know the over 80 years old author of the PON material. This master (over 50 years of experience in alchemy) has made the stone in a number of ways but he recommends:

    1. the Flamel Path (Philaletha,Newton, etc.) with Stibnite and common mercury
    2. the Acetate Path with stibnite

    He and I have no doubt about that both ways are possible and successful.

    You probably have seen the French videos with Patrick Riviere who has made the stone according to Fulcanelli with stibnite (star reg. of antimony)It is a little different from Flamel's path. He got the gold analysed by an institute.

    But I agree with you one should never close one's mind to new discoveries.
    Especially if we have the adept and vanguard Leo here from whom we can learn new things every day.

    And I will poke my nose into your posts more deeply.......

    Zlan

  9. #309
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    Hey Zlan.

    Thank you for the compliment.

    Yeah, I suppose those sneaky Philosophers would not have limited their
    description to just one manifestation - I was imagining as it would be found
    in the mine - but yes, if you powder it, it is black.

    I didn't mean all three posts directed at you. I guess that's just a product
    of self-moderation, and my mind always coming up with things - it's hard
    to keep up.


    I guess there's no more need for secrecy. Vega 33 has let the cat out of
    the bag, so to speak. So without further ado, here it is:

    ISIS UNVEILED!!!

    That vile and toxic dragon, to be found everywhere, at no expense...
    Behold, the star of the Sages!:






    Oh Vega! You've created a monster! lol.
    Last edited by solomon levi; 07-13-2010 at 12:45 AM.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    If I were to ignore all the authors, which can be very confusing, I think a
    simple look at this is to go to the source.

    It's called Alchemy; that is al khem, the black.
    The Egyptian hieroglyph is a section of crocodile scales:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Km_%28hieroglyph%29


    So it would seem we are looking for a black, scaly matter.
    Black is so significant that they named it "Black", so this
    should not be confused with gray or silver or any other color.
    Although there does seem to be evidence that the ancients were
    unable to distinguish between black and blue.

    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/61

    "More recent research, however, suggests that color terminology may not be so arbitrary after all. Brent Berlin and Paul Kay (Basic Color Terms: Their Universality and Evolution, 1969), to whom Cecil is indebted for much of the preceding discussion, suggest that there is a remarkable degree of uniformity in the way different cultures assign color names. In a study of 98 languages from a variety of linguistic families, they found the following "rules" seem to apply:

    1. All languages contain terms for white and black.

    2. If a language contains three terms, then it contains a term for red.

    3. If a language contains four terms, then it contains a term for either green or yellow (but not both).

    4. If a language contains five terms, then it contains terms for both green and yellow.

    5. If a language contains six terms, then it contains a term for blue.

    6. If a language contains seven terms, then it contains a term for brown.

    7. If a language contains eight or more terms, then it contains a term for purple, pink, orange, grey, or some combination of these."

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...e-three-colors
    Speaking of black, there seems to be some interesting word games in Matthew 10:16 (sheep amongst the wolves), barely covered by possible alterations to the original text. Meloi is a word meaning, in Greek, both sheep and apple. There is a legend in Apuleius regarding the golden sheep, Meloi Khryseoi (http://www.theoi.com/Ther/MeloiKhryseoi.html).

    Now, meloi (which also coincidentally means a song/melody) is very close to several other Greek words: melit (honey), and melan (black).

    Similarly, the word for Wolf, Lukos, is very close to Leukos, White/Bright.

    Similarly, we find in the wisdom of serpent, Sophis (wisdom) / Ophis (serpent), both of which hide the light (phos) of wisdom within.

    In these word games we seem to see the connotation of the black sheep, whose young is the lamb (Agnus in Latin). Agnes in Greek means "pure/innocent".

    Just some word games that might be worth considering.

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