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Thread: Cyliani

  1. #1
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    Cyliani

    Hello again,

    in order to connect major works of true alchemists I'm going to show you that Cyliani took essential parts for his work "Hermes Devoile" .... from "Des Hermes Trismegists wahrer alter Naturweg". I think, this is somehow a great discovery, although I have to admit, that it wasn't me who had found out but a friend of mine.

    Hopefully that connection will lead to a better understanding of both works and maybe to the solution of some riddles.

    Let me have some time in order to extract the relevant passages and the necessary translations from the German original manuscript.

  2. #2
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    Hi Weidenfeld,

    Yes, when I read these texts, I saw some parallels like :

    I.C.H : "Vrai et vieux chemin d'hermès" 1782
    Il se fait alors un dépôt composé de trois Sels ainsi qu’il suit :
    1° Un Sel tout ouvert et cottoneux qui ressemble à une huile olive très subtile.
    2° Un Nitre très délié
    3° Un Sel Alkali

    Cyliani : "Hermès Dévoilé" 1832
    Après l'avoir dissoute, ils l'exposent dans un lieu froid pour obtenir trois couches de sel.
    Le premier sel a l'aspect de laine, le deuxième d'un nitre à très petites
    aiguilles et le troisième est un sel fixe alcalin.
    Cyliani "Hermes Unveiled" 1832
    After being dissolved, they expose it in a cold place in order to have three layers of salt.
    The first salt has the appearance of wool, the second is a very small nitre needles and the third is a fixed alkaline salt.

    I.C.H: "True and old way of Hermes" 1782
    It then makes a deposit made of three Salts as follows:
    1 ° A Salt all opened and cotton that looks like a very subtle olive oil.
    2 ° A very slender Nitre.
    3 ° A Salt Alkali.
    We can see that it is very similar indeed. it is also possible that there is a transmition from adept to disciple, a R+C order of some kind probably ?

    But, we can find another kind of text having the same similarities, it is the "Recreations Hermetiques", another very very good text ! Making exactly the same references to these three salts; here is the extract whic is quite similar to Cyliani's text :

    Lorsqu'on dissout le Mercure dans l'esprit astral, et qu'on a séparé la terre par décantation et lotion, pour n'en rien perdre, on pose la dissolution dans un lieu frais, et il se fait un dépôt de trois sels savoir, l'un cotonneux, qui nage à la superficie et qui est le mercure ; le second qui est aiguillé et de nature du Nitre, et qui est entre deux eaux ; et le troisième qui est un sel fixe et minéral qui se dépose au fond.
    When the Mercury is dissolved into the astral spirit, and when we have separated the earth by decantation and lotion, in order to lose nothing, the solution is exposed into a clod place, and there is a desposit of three salts, to know ; a cotton one, which swim on the surface and which is the mercury, the second one, which has the form of needled, is of the Niter's nature, and between two waters, is the third, which is a fix mineral salt, on the bottom.
    This text was quoted by Fulcanelli and Canseliet in their books.
    It was written in the 19th Ctry, and the author is anonymous.

    But, we can be sure that in all these texts, it is the same work presented.
    There is also more parallels, but this one (of the 3 salts) is enough.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

    My Works

    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Salazius,

    yes, you have provided us with the sufficient passages, and yes "Recreations Hermetiques" could be referred to the same source. I need not to repeat the same considerations.

    I assume that even within the work of Christophorus Parisienus could be found such similarities.

  4. #4
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    Christophorus Parisienus : who is this author ? I never heard about him, he wrote several texts ?
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

    My Works

    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salazius View Post
    Christophorus Parisienus : who is this author ? I never heard about him, he wrote several texts ?
    One of the better known works from Christoph of Paris, otherwise known as Christopher Parisienis, is his Elucidarius. I think the original works are all in Latin and should be contained in the Theatrum Chemicum and similar compendia.

    See http://www.levity.com/alchemy/almss30.html

    3650. Leiden MS. Vossianus Chym. F. 43.
    36 folios. Paper. 302x210mm. End of 16th Century.
    Christophorus Parisiensis, Elucidarius Artis Transmutatoriae Metallorum.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3654. Leiden MS. Vossianus Chym. Q. 3.
    228 folios. Paper. 223x175mm. 16th Century [1584.]
    [Christopher of Paris, complete works in French.]
    1. f1-15 Medulla artis.
    2. f16-17 La pierre végétable.
    3. f17v-45v Sommette.
    4. f46-68v Violette.
    5. f69-167 Lucidaire.
    6. f167v-169v Alphabet apertoire.
    7. f170-212 Pratique (de l'alphabet apertoire.)
    8. f212v-215 De la quinte essence.

  6. #6
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    yes, thank you indeed Salazius.
    I've been studying Les Recreations (that I love deeply) recently, and I was wondering where I had already red about those three salts. It was Cyliani!! I remembered something similar in the Golden Chain, but I was wrong, as I checked and the author talks only about crystals of nitre and alkali, so the third and most important salt is missing there. This confirms my suspect of the Golden Chain to be a little too spagyrical in its approach to alchemy.
    At this point gettind hold of a french or english version of Des Hermes Trismegists becomes quite important to me, I think I'll have to shell for the paper book..

    there's Christophorus Parisiensis, Elucidarius artis transmutatoriae metallorum summa major in volume VI of the Theatrum Chemicum by Zetzner (you can find all six volumes on googlebooks)

    with humility
    t

  7. #7
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    But, we can find another kind of text having the same similarities, it is the "Recreations Hermetiques", another very very good text ! Making exactly the same references to these three salts; here is the extract whic is quite similar to Cyliani's text :
    Is somebody aware about a translation of "Recreations Hermetiques" into English or even into German ?

  8. #8
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    hallo weidenfeld,
    it's the same problem.: to be confortable in studying alchemy one should know latin (greek and arabic would help too), french, english, italian and german. and there's always at least one laguage missing! for me the problem it's german (actually my latin is a bit rusty too).
    Sadly, I'm not aware of any translation of Les Recreations.
    You can find the french text (that you'll have to epurate from the comments and notes of the curator) here:
    http://herve.delboy.perso.sfr.fr/rec...rmetiques.html

    here's the bibliographical references:
    Ms. 362 dans la bibliotheque du Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle de Paris, folios 1039 -1064 .

    editions:

    Récréations Hermétiques, in Deux traité alchimiques du XIX siècle, présentation et commentaires par B. Husson, L'Omnium Littéraire, Paris 1964, pp. 237-258.

    Récréations Hermétiques, in Anthologie de l'Achimie, avertissement, introduction et commentaires par B. Husson, Belfond, Paris 1971, pp. 301 - 321.

    Cent cinquante scholies, dans La Tourbe des Philosophes, 1981, XIV, pp. 34 - 43 e XV - XVI, pp. 47 - 56

    G. Pasquier, L'entrée du labyrinthe ou Introduction à l'Alchimie suivie des Récréations hermétiques et des Scholies, deux manuscrits d'alchimie du XIX siècle, Editions Dervy, 1992, pp. 91 - 156.

    if it can help, I made a translation into italian that you can find here:

    http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._ermetiche.htm

    with humility
    t

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    Thanks Weidenfeld and Teofrast for the references of Christophe de Paris (curiously he is Italian). I will seek forward, I had the 'theatrum' in high resolution, google version is poor ! And my latin is old now.

    Yes always a language missing ! Arabic and greek, not for me yet... there is just enough with latin and german for the moment !

    The version of Les Recreations in 'Anthologie' of Bernard Husson is just an extract, the whole text epured here :

    http://www.4shared.com/account/docum...ERMTIQUES.html

    http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/H...ng.html?rnd=87

    The Scholies are also from the same author and are also interesting, thy are in the pdf above too (french).

    Yes Teofrast, I also think that Kirchweger is a little to much spagyrical in his approach in the first two parts of the Aurea Catena Homeri, but it changes, seemingly, a little in the third part, which is more alchemical, but I don't think we have the same kind of work like in ICH, Cyliani and Les Recreations.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

    My Works

    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  10. #10
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    Theofrast40 thanks for the links.

    Yes, I came across most scarce Arabic Mss never translated up to now. Although there is a special Yahoo Group entirely dedicated for the translation of Arabic alchemical Mss, it is an extremely tedious work and of course, not for free if you have to engage someone who knows Arabic very well.

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