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Thread: Cyliani

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Before talking about and achieving immortality, I recommend baking smaller pieces of bread first. Neither in a book, nor a film, or a story told you skip right away to the (expected happy?) end. It might also be a bad one.
    I think it's fine to speculate and exchange our thoughts on what can be expected from accomplishing the Great Work. Few would bother to start this endeavour without having any idea where it might lead.

    Cinnabar is available in huge amounts in many mines in China, so it's only natural that they worked with that material there since ancient times.
    Sure. I just brought it up to illustrate the connection between external and internal alchemy in China, as both refer to cinnabar.

    However, if not worked very carefully with that stuff, immortality might catch one rather sooner than later..
    Yeah, depending on what you do with it. And on your definition of "immortality".

    Others here and elsewhere mentioned a lot of times before, that the secret/universal solvent is what differs alchemy from chemistry (spagyrics, archemy, chymistry) and insisted that the lab practice is not just merely spiritual (Jung's official approach).
    I am fully with you in regards to the latter statement anyway.

    In regards to the former, I don't downplay the importance of the universal downplay, to be sure. But I doubt that the differentiation between alchemy on the one hand and 'chymia', spagyrics etc. on the other hand has always been unambiguous.

    Especially the "Cyliani path" and all its attributed other texts that were mentioned in this thread insisted on this. This is also the view of many arab and medieval authors. I recommend focusing on how to get that solvent first. Even if you got it, it seems to be quite a long and difficult way to the end despite of other's views who seem to see it as "merely" women's and child work.
    It may be once you figured it out!

    On a side note: Fulcanelli said that alchemy is a mix of physical science and religion. And it's all about matter.
    I would agree to this. Although, personally, I prefer the term 'metaphysics' over 'religion'.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Who should now think that the true living magnet for this noble pearl and the universal Mercury comes from a living human being
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    our matter is animalistic because it comes out of the human
    Hi Andro!

    Thank you for the quotations . Note, however, that these quotations, rather than refuting my reasoning, on the contrary, only confirm it. Observe, please, that at no time does the author explicitly state that this matter is urine. This words of him is a misleading statement that can lead the reader into a dead end, by thinking that the matter comes from urine. Also note that this statement can legitimize any other interpretation, since from man also comes hair, nails, saliva, feces, blood, bones and urine, of course. By the way, these are the matters about which the Trevisan worked all his life, but according to him, in vain.

    It would be very boring and wordy to list here all the correspondences and similarities of thinking between Cyliani/Naturweg/Hermetic Recreations/Zadkiel and Hermetic Cabinet (if I had more time, I would be happy to write a work explaining all the reasons for it), but here are some quotes that show the harmony of these authors:

    Cyliani: "I must add that the proper matter to the work is that which served to form the body of primitive man [Adam]."

    Hermetic Recreations: "Consider now that in the same manner, and from the same matter of which the world was created, the work of the wise is revealed, and that is why it has been called the 'small world' or Microcosm." I ask: what work of nature is called Microcosm? ICH himself replies: "Man is the fifth being of the world’s machinery, the very center, into which all spheres of nature pour their rays, the microcosm and the summary of the whole world, the wonder of the world."

    Hermetic Cabinet: "Look, he [Basil Valentine] says, in the bowels of the earth and there you will find our hidden stone and the true medicine. It is the first matter of the more or less perfect metals, according to what it has of more or less perfect matters: if it is united to a pure matter, it forms gold; if it is less pure, it forms silver; if it is even more impure, it forms lead and so on. ... It is the magnet and the steel of the wise. ... With respect to our subject, the expense is modest and the Hermetic Triumph says that it costs only the sum of two pences to have the subject of matter and do the work. This subject appears in a very vile form, which makes it despicable in the eyes of men."

    Now we will see Zadkiel, for he makes a statement that will explain ICH´s statements we read above: "This matter the philosophers called their Vessel, and with reason too - for it holds the Astral Spirit in itself, and contains it in all its workings, until it putrefies with it, and become one body with it, and then it acquires the name of the first matter, which is so earnestly sought after by those who devote themselves to the study of the Art of Hermes. ... Nature presents us with one of the materials necessary for the practice and perfection of this art, ready formed to hand and fit for use, as the body, matter, or Vase in which we work, is found in the bowels of the earth, according as I have stated in the former part of this treatise."

    He goes on saying: "[Matter] is common in fields and marshy places; it is not necessary to dig deep in the bowels of the Earth for it, as it is frequently found in the depth of a man's leg."

    Now what is the matter that ICH refers to as saying that it is animalistic and comes from the human being? Hair, nails, saliva, feces, blood, bones or urine? What was Adam made out of? Notice how many times Cyliani and the other authors mentions the word "earth" and how Cyliani says that a cloud came out of the center of the earth when he is describing the astral spirit and the matter from which it is drawn. Note the statements that the matter has price. Note Zadkiel's emphatic statements that matter is a type of earth found in the bowels of the earth. He even says that this earth is mineral one. How all of this can refer to urine?

    Here I close my considerations, for Zadkiel's last statement is sufficient as to the identity and location of the matter. Those who believe it is urine will always find reason to believe it. It is not my intention to deter or convince anyone, for I am not, nor do I consider myself any authority on the subject. I simply submit my reasoning, trusting that the students thirst for knowledge will take these words as a route in elucidating any doubts that remain.

    I'm at disposal of the sincere and open-hearted students.
    V. V.

  3. #163
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    "[Matter] is common in fields and marshy places; it is not necessary to dig deep in the bowels of the Earth for it, as it is frequently found in the depth of a man's leg."
    i (1) Pooneeru : ANDAKKALS certain species of lime stones composed of globules are said to be found underneath the fullers earth soil,
    A white substance that bubbles out from these lime stones during the full moon night attracted the Siddhas.
    and that is take the white,
    clear and honoured Herb growing on the Hillocks, and pound it fresh as it is in its Hour, and that is the true Body not flying from the Fire
    received or gathered from the Hillocks it is a clear white Body, and these are the medicine of this Art,
    part is procured and part is found upon the Hillocks;
    that it costs only the sum of two pences to have the subject of matter and do the work. This subject appears in a very vile form, which makes it despicable in the eyes of men."
    Who sells something vile and despicable to all men. where's the market. how did he buy it ?.
    Its also called precious and vile to men. They handle it unknowingly. Esteemed and hated by common man.
    Children don't play with urine they play with chalk. You love fresh milk, you despise rotten milk.Under and on hillocks you find Pooneeru.
    Most men see it in a vile coat, yet sell it, handle, praise it and hate it ?. This deliberate confusion and contradiction are the labyrinth.

    is a type of earth found in the bowels of the earth. He even says that this earth is mineral one
    The white spar that feeds the lead mines. The viscous water which is hardened into stone, that hang from cave ceilings.

    Very few authors get down to it. Establishing it as a mineral and a water, a building block of man, with a diverse abundance of forms.
    Don't kick your limestone away, why Paracelsus ?. The water that ran through it.

  4. #164
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    VV,

    I'm not saying "the matter " is this or that, I'm just comparing what the authors in this lineage say about it, and I find somewhat of a discrepancy between ICH and the others you are mentioning. Like I said before, I am not following this path - and technically neither are you, since you admit not having started working on it. By the way, it's very commendable to admit this, and such honesty is greatly appreciated! In any case, this particular discussion remains fully theoretical at this stage


    Quote Originally Posted by Via Veritatis View Post
    Now we will see Zadkiel, for he makes a statement that will explain ICH´s statements we read above: "This matter the philosophers called their Vessel, and with reason too - for it holds the Astral Spirit in itself, and contains it in all its workings, until it putrefies with it, and become one body with it, and then it acquires the name of the first matter, which is so earnestly sought after by those who devote themselves to the study of the Art of Hermes."
    How, in your view, does this statement of Zadkiel explain ICH's statements that "it comes from a living man" and that it is "animalistic"?


    "Nature presents us with one of the materials necessary for the practice and perfection of this art, ready formed to hand and fit for use, as the body, matter, or Vase in which we work, is found in the bowels of the earth, according as I have stated in the former part of this treatise."
    In your view, is this material (the earth/vessel) found or sold to be used "as is"? Or does it have to be prepared in a certain way to receive the "other" material (the spirit)?


    " [...] it is not necessary to dig deep in the bowels of the Earth for it, as it is frequently found in the depth of a man's leg."
    Using ground level as reference, maybe some authors are digging "down" and others are digging "up" (a man's leg)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Via Veritatis View Post
    Now what is the matter that ICH refers to as saying that it is animalistic and comes from the human being? Hair, nails, saliva, feces, blood, bones or urine? What was Adam made out of? Notice how many times Cyliani and the other authors mentions the word "earth" and how Cyliani says that a cloud came out of the center of the earth when he is describing the astral spirit and the matter from which it is drawn. Note the statements that the matter has price. Note Zadkiel's emphatic statements that matter is a type of earth found in the bowels of the earth. He even says that this earth is mineral one. How all of this can refer to urine?
    I'm not saying that Zadkiel refers to urine. I'm just repeating what ICH states, that it comes from a living Man.


    I've had access to quite a lot of R+C texts throughout the years, some of them MS that were (seemingly) never released or published. One of my conclusions from those MS was that ultimately, "the matter doesn't matter" (too much)


    Or maybe all these texts are one big psy-op and the actual Great Work is something else entirely

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro
    I've had access to quite a lot of R+C texts throughout the years, some of them MS that were (seemingly) never released or published. One of my conclusions from those MS was that ultimately, "the matter doesn't matter" (too much)


    Or maybe all these texts are one big psy-op and the actual Great Work is something else entirely
    I also had access to some of those (mostly) GuR texts and can confirm the work with all kinds of matters (though some are worked with more than others -including both the here mentioned clay and urine).

    Other explanations than the "matter doesn't matter" would be that they are

    a) all wrong.
    b) misleading on purpose.

    In addition there are quite some backups for your theories.

    Pierre-Jean Fabre for example also says the matter doesn't matter and that "the" matter is in every country, right before everyone's eyes and in everyone's hands. This latter statement can be read in quite some other books and may support the location in "the belly of aries".

    Fabre BTW explains a lot of the symbols Fulcanelli is also using. He also interpreted the cathedrale of Saint-Sernin in a way Fulca does. I don't remember whether Fulca quots him as a source or not.

  6. #166
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    We can't know for sure how good all those alchemical authors were in their actual lab practice, but they are all quite adept at psycho-semantic mind-fuck

    One favorite example of mine:

    "The matter can be found in all places and at all times, wherever man can go." (paraphrasing from 'Chemical Moonshine' and a few other texts)

    Maybe it's less a case of "the matter is everywhere" and more a case of "everywhere you go, you always take the weather (matter) with you"?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    We can't know for sure how good all those alchemical authors were in their actual lab practice, but they are all quite adept at psycho-semantic mind-fuck

    One favorite example of mine:

    "The matter can be found in all places and at all times, wherever man can go." (paraphrasing from 'Chemical Moonshine' and a few other texts)

    Maybe it's less a case of "the matter is everywhere" and more a case of "everywhere you go, you always take the weather (matter) with you"?
    In a way, the statement in 'Chemical Moonshine' actually DOES make perfect sense, depending on how you define "matter".

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