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Thread: Cyliani

  1. #131
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    You could quote the entry in the german dictionary of the brothers Grimm (the guys who collected all those beautiful fairy tales).

    http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/call_w...&lemid=GK17041

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    You could quote the entry in the german dictionary of the brothers Grimm (the guys who collected all those beautiful fairy tales).

    http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/call_w...&lemid=GK17041
    Thank you! The text I was translating also talks about the "Atramentum" elsewhere... which is a broad name for a vast diversity of black inks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atramentum ).
    I guess "atramentum" or "chalcantum" or similar names were good names as to name tinctures depending on their colour (i.e, because they looked somehow close to a known ink).

  3. #133
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    Hi everybody!

    Concerning Cyliani's matter, I would like to give my humble considerations here. We read the varied works of philosophers, and sometimes, because we find no striking similarities between them, we believe they refer to different works.

    We need to remember that there is an unity in all philosophers, and this must be borne in mind when reading works such as Cyliani's. I've read and reread Cyliani, Naturweg, Hermetic Recreations and Zadkiel, separately and together (I've even created a volume intertwining these four works together) enough to realize that while the matter and secret fire are not clearly named, yet, the hints and clues that Cyliani and the other authors give throughout the works are enough for the student of the Art. It gets almost pathetic as the information is sometimes in front of our nose and sometimes we do not notice it.

    Those who know the matter and secret fire of Cyliani´s path know how true this is.

    Regarding to G. Perard's commentaries, as far as my knowledge goes, there is some misleading information. This leads us to two conclusions: either G. Perard did not know Cyliani's work or he gave his contribution to blur even more the puzzling yet sincere work left by Cyliani.

    Cyliani´s matter is neither nitrous nor arsenical. Any name you give it is true: chalcantum, atramentum, arsenic, antimony, mercury, coal, sal ammonia and others.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Via Veritatis View Post
    Those who know the matter and secret fire of Cyliani´s path know how true this is.

    Hi VV,
    Have you performed the actual work with this matter & fire, or is your insight still theoretical at this stage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Via Veritatis View Post
    Regarding to G. Perard's commentaries, as far as my knowledge goes, there is some misleading information.
    When you say "misleading", are you referring to the notes of Perard, or to the more detailed instructions of Gerbant?


    Also, in your view, is the "Magnet" for attracting the "Astral Spirit" the same as the "Matter" that is imbibed with the same Spirit? Or are those two different matters in your view?

    Additional, Cyliani and St. Didier mention the usefulness of having some knowledge of chemistry, and Gerbant mentions Lavoisier and nitrogen compounds.

    How do you view this?

    Also see this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    All those "contradictions" are easily reconciled when one regards all these "matters" merely as vehicles/hosts/carriers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    The strictly chemical compounds in and of themselves are traditionally/canonically considered "alchemically dead" if/when not "animated" or "awakened" by this "Spirit" guest/passenger.
    It's almost as if "The matter doesn't matter - it's THE matter that matters."

  5. #135
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    Imo it may also be helpful to look at the time/phases and progress of the work.

    In these texts there is mentioned a work before the subsequent three rotations (though sometimes it is included in the first rotation).

    Depending on which phase you are at, the quality of the matter(s) differ. Some of the texts you mention also seem to indicate that at a certain stage not only the quality of the matter changes, but also the kind of matter itself.

    And I don't mean that in a chemical way.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Hi VV,
    Have you performed the actual work with this matter & fire, or is your insight still theoretical at this stage?
    Hi Andro!

    Unfortunately my statements remains on theoretical level, but strongly supported by several well-known authors such as Basil, Arnaldus and Hermetic Cabinet´s author.

    Cyliani's work, which has the same foundation as other philosophers, is a work that requires much effort (Herculean work) and I have no proper place to operate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    When you say "misleading", are you referring to the notes of Perard, or to the more detailed instructions of Gerbant?
    When I say misleading, I am referring to just a few notes of G. Perard. Not everything he says is wrong, but not all truth he says necessarily applies to Cyliani's work. However, when he specifically says that Cyliani's matter is arsenical and nitrous, it does not correspond with the truth, nor with Cyliani himself or other authors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Also, in your view, is the "Magnet" for attracting the "Astral Spirit" the same as the "Matter" that is imbibed with the same Spirit? Or are those two different matters in your view?
    Cyliani/Naturweg/Hermetic Recreations/Zadkiel makes it clear that matter and magnet are the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Additional, Cyliani and St. Didier mention the usefulness of having some knowledge of chemistry, and Gerbant mentions Lavoisier and nitrogen compounds.

    How do you view this?
    Concerning the usefulness of chemistry, I dare say I only got the insights I gained after studying a lot of chemistry. This is one way to understand the clues and hints that the authors leave along the way, another way is study, study and study several authors with the same foundation. After this we put all this together and we will see the whole picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Also see this:
    All those "contradictions" are easily reconciled when one regards all these "matters" merely as vehicles/hosts/carriers.
    Yes, I agree. As far as my knowledge goes, the great reason for this is because each author makes his own approach to matter and how it works in the great work. Although Cyliani calls his matter "clay," it is nevertheless possible to work with other matters as long as you understand what is involved in the whole process of the great work. When authors say that there is one matter, one fire and one way to operate, they are referring to the principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    The strictly chemical compounds in and of themselves are traditionally/canonically considered "alchemically dead" if/when not "animated" or "awakened" by this "Spirit" guest/passenger.
    It's almost as if "The matter doesn't matter - it's THE matter that matters."
    Chemically speaking, sodium chloride is always sodium chloride no matter the location it is obtained. The only difference may be only purity. However, alchemically speaking that same sodium chloride obtained in one place may be more preferable than another because the former contains the "spirit." This must be understood within a larger set in which the matter you take has the properties necessary to undergo change and to go through all the procedures of the work. Therefore it is necessary to understand each operation and stage of the work so that we know if the matter used at the beginning is fit for it.

    All the best!

  7. #137
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    Other than the nitrous/arsenical characterization, do you find other notes from G. Perard to be misleading in the Cyliani context?

    Have you also read the more detailed instructions from Gerbant? He's basically animating Gypsum with various procedures - dew, urine, sun, moon, air, etc..

    Gerbant also mentions a "metallic body" that needs to be "dissolved" in the prepared "non-corrosive nitreous bath". He even hints at the nature of that "metallic body".

    About the "matter": Cyliani, Recreations and Zadkiel strongly indicate a type of "clay" (possibly decomposed/composted earthy matter from the Kingdoms that live and vegetate, collected in certain places and in certain seasons), however Naturweg makes a strong point that the Magnet originates from Man. How would you reconcile this?

    NB: I personally don't follow this path, but I won't deny it is interesting to discuss it

  8. #138
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    I think that it is quite clear that when alchemists speak about Stone and Man (and Stone being the Man, one vessel, one operation, one matter), it has to deal more with spiritual part of the Work. Basil Valentine in his forewords to twelve keys says about tripartite composition of things being basically spirit, soul and body. Can't achieve much while perfecting only body ("clay" part), need also rectify soul (negative/positive emotions) and spirit, which is the most subtle.

    One Man consists of crude part (body) and subtle part (soul and spirit). That subtle part is rebis, re-bis, double thing (soul +spirit). All three must be in perfect harmony for spiritual transformation and, possibly, to get special abilities (Siddhi), like having total control over one's body with ability to revert its aging.

    I think it might be a bit hard to ascertain the line which separates spiritual Alchemy, which speaks mostly in riddles and metaphores, and physical Alchemy (Spagiria), which is slightly less covered in riddles (though still being quite enigmatic) and includes various experiments with antimony, various salts, acids, etc. with outcome being mostly 2-nd grade Medicine (1-st grade Medicine being purely spiritual, hence why many alchemists bothered so much in describing various medical recipes, they wouldn't do so if one could easily make just one physical Panacea) and transformation of inferior metals to superior (or, in case of Vegetable Kingdom, Palingenesis).

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Via Veritatis View Post
    Cyliani/Naturweg/Hermetic Recreations/Zadkiel makes it clear that matter and magnet are the same thing.
    What text did Zadkiel write, or is that the name of an author of a text? I am not familiar.


    EDIT: Found it, read it. Excellent read!!
    Last edited by Schmuldvich; 1 Week Ago at 02:34 AM.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    physical Alchemy (Spagiria), which is slightly less covered in riddles (though still being quite enigmatic) and includes various experiments with antimony, various salts, acids, etc. with outcome being mostly 2-nd grade Medicine (1-st grade Medicine being purely spiritual, hence why many alchemists bothered so much in describing various medical recipes, they wouldn't do so if one could easily make just one physical Panacea).
    Cyliani actually refers to this "medicine" as universal, even potentially allowing someone to live for a few centuries when taken twice a year at the equinoxes (by restoring unrestricted flow of the "life currents" inside the body). He also mentions that its effects are not surgical and cannot restore lost limbs, etc...

    I have a somewhat different (or complementary) theory: That the best use for this tangible alchemical "medicine" is to take it in its highly multiplied form, so it basically "dissolves" (or "burns") the "corrupted" human vessel and offers the possibility to either "Return to the One Thing" ("Fire") and/or become completely "liberated" in the sense of being able to take any desired form and access any desired point/plane in time/space and beyond.

    Of course this should be accompanied by other "spiritual" practices and preparations, but I still strongly believe that such an alchemical super-multiplied Elixir is the final/ultimate "kick" to to push one beyond all limitations of the human condition as we know it.

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