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Thread: Cyliani

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Which could be in agreement with the accepted age when the possibility of attaining philosophical wisdom becomes more accessible (after 40).
    "As above, so below" Therefore, it likely refers to both. I believe that the physical alchemical process relates closely to the internal, spiritual process.

    This would likely be the symbol of Sulfur - a triangle connected to a cross. But maybe you mean something else...
    Yes, Sulfur is the symbol of the active principle. The ancients often gave numerous different symbols for any one substance, depenidng on the meaning they were trying to convey. One of the symbols for Sulfur is a circle with a vertical cross in it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    It does indeed suggest the use of clay, but I think that we were discussing the other paper "The Philosophers Stone", which also hints at a type of clay.
    And this is the true Matter or Subject of the Philosophers, and mark how that it agreeth with that I said before: First, that it is one thing, which yet containeth three; Secondly, that it is a vile thing, and yet is not so, for it is a lump of Clay; Thirdly, that it is so vile and common that Workmen throw it out of their Mines, and tread on it, as a thing of no value: I have seen Highways paved with it in Hungary, and it is no other in other Countries.- Privy Seal of Secrets.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And this is the true Matter or Subject of the Philosophers, and mark how that it agreeth with that I said before: First, that it is one thing, which yet containeth three; Secondly, that it is a vile thing, and yet is not so, for it is a lump of Clay; Thirdly, that it is so vile and common that Workmen throw it out of their Mines, and tread on it, as a thing of no value: I have seen Highways paved with it in Hungary, and it is no other in other Countries.- Privy Seal of Secrets.
    Yeah, I've heard this numerous times. Using the clay from a gold mine. Also, red clay, iron oxide rich clay, signifies to prospectors that gold should be close by.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    And this is the true Matter or Subject of the Philosophers, and mark how that it agreeth with that I said before: First, that it is one thing, which yet containeth three; Secondly, that it is a vile thing, and yet is not so, for it is a lump of Clay; Thirdly, that it is so vile and common that Workmen throw it out of their Mines, and tread on it, as a thing of no value: I have seen Highways paved with it in Hungary, and it is no other in other Countries.- Privy Seal of Secrets.
    Are you aware of any other works that specifically suggest clay as the First Matter (other than Hermetic Recreations, The Philoosphers Stone and the Privy Seat of Secrets)?

  5. #45
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    hi Illen,
    Cyliani too mentions clay.
    then there's also the opus ex virginea terra inside Digby's Chemical Secrets, but I wouldn't dare to compare it with our textes.
    regarding the mine of 30 years standing, I red in more than one alchemical treatise that when expert miners find an exhausted mine, they close it and get back (or maybe their sons) after some years to find it enriched again.
    at the moment I'm reading a (quite boring) treatise of Gherard Dorn - a Paracelse's apologist- and he too mentions this topos. Guess what's the time he says that the miner should wait before reopening the mine? yep, that's 30 years.

    thanks Aleilius for this citation, I'll head soon to Aurifontina Chemica.

  6. #46
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    Quoth Hyle & Cohyle:

    Unwise (or: stupid, foolish) people, yes, those whom the world considers great Doctors, say and give out as truth that God made man from a clot of loam or clay, or from the dust of the earth, which is wrong.
    It was no such matter, but a Quintessential matter. Earth it is named, but it is no earth.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by teofrast40 View Post
    hi Illen,
    Cyliani too mentions clay.
    then there's also the opus ex virginea terra inside Digby's Chemical Secrets, but I wouldn't dare to compare it with our textes.
    regarding the mine of 30 years standing, I red in more than one alchemical treatise that when expert miners find an exhausted mine, they close it and get back (or maybe their sons) after some years to find it enriched again.
    at the moment I'm reading a (quite boring) treatise of Gherard Dorn - a Paracelse's apologist- and he too mentions this topos. Guess what's the time he says that the miner should wait before reopening the mine? yep, that's 30 years.

    thanks Aleilius for this citation, I'll head soon to Aurifontina Chemica.
    Thanks for the information, teofrast. I don't recall Cyliani mentioning clay. Can you find the quote that mentions it?

    Also, doesn't the Opus Magnum via Virginea Terra mention black earth rather than clay?

    That Gherard Dorn treatise, even if boring, does sound like it might have some relevant information in it. Obvioulsy, all these authors mentioning the 30 year old mines, must have either had a common source, or were impressed by the approaches used by some of these authors. I seem to recall reading elsewhere about these 30-year old mines, especially form Hungary. I wish I could remember where.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Quoth Hyle & Cohyle:
    Interesting quote, Androgynous. Perhaps he was referring to the Astral Spirit itself, rather than the magnet which attracts it.

  9. #49
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    hi Andro,
    well, if you put it like this, I remembered where else did I read of digging a hole at one's kee depth.
    It's in Cosmopolite's (no less) treatise on sulphur - the last part, you won't find it on adam mclean's site.

    Then he (our alchemist) convinced himself that to acquire this salt of verginity he woud have dig to below the foundation of roots, in a place of rich soil, to extract a virgin earth that had not yet been impregnated, establishing badly the adage that to obtain the living water of salt niter one must dig a hole deep to the knees, and that fantasy he was not content just to pursue by his work, but made it also public with a speech that he made print: there he claimed that this was the true thought of the philosophers. He ostinated so strongly in this immaginary and pointless opinion that he spent all his property, so that he saw himself reduced in poverty, full of pain and discomfort.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Are you aware of any other works that specifically suggest clay as the First Matter (other than Hermetic Recreations, The Philoosphers Stone and the Privy Seat of Secrets)?
    I don't think any treatise worth its salt would state that the First Matter is anything but water, but is no water.

    There is a difference between the First Matter and the Matter to work upon. A Matter to work upon could be clay or any other numerous substances that are suggested in the literature.

    Typical of misleading statements would be the one in the Privy Seal of Secrets, "I have seen Highways paved with it in Hungary, and it is no other in other Countries. where "it" appears to refer to clay but actually itsnot.

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