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Thread: The black suns

  1. #1
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    The black suns

    This part of alchemy has posed a mystery to me and there isn't much discussion on it.
    I thought I'd propose some possibilities and see what others have to add.

    "Occasionally, and unscientifically, black dwarfs are referred to as black suns... Others regard the Black Sun as
    a black hole; before the term black hole was invented in 1967, black holes (then still theoretical) were sometimes
    called black stars or dark stars... Still others, such as Miguel Serrano, think of the Black Sun as a wormhole."
    - wikipedia

    Another option may be black body radiation:
    http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/cla...radiation.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body

    Interesting the mention of soot or graphite... leads us back to Al-khem, black earth.

    "There is a persistent belief in alchemic and hermetic tradition in the existence of two suns: a hidden one of pure "philosophical gold,"
    consisting of the essential Fire conjoined with aether, and the apparent one of profane "material gold." The "dark, consuming fire" of
    the material sun leads to its being called the "Dark" or "Black Sun."
    It is possible that these teachings influenced Philolaus in the development of his groundbreaking theory of the Central Fire.
    This is supported by the fact that the various teachings regarding multiple suns are sometimes attributed to Empedocles, who
    was a contemporary of Philolaus, and his senior. However, this connection may be coincidental, and it is likely that the attribution
    of these ideas to Empedocles stems from an imperfect understanding of his cosmology in regard to the reflective nature of the Sun.

    Sol niger (black sun) is also the name of the result of the first stage of the Opus Magnum in alchemy, the blackening (nigredo)." - wikipedia

    The black sun could also refer to the sun being eclipsed.


    "The Vril Force or Vril Energy was said to be derived from the Black Sun, a big ball of "Prima Materia" which supposedly exists in the center
    of the Earth, giving light to the Vril-ya and putting out radiation in the form of Vril. The Vril Society believed that Aryans were the actual
    biological ancestors of the Black Sun.
    This force was known to the ancients under many names, and it has been called Chi, Ojas, Vril, Astral Light, Odic Forces and Orgone.
    In a discussion of the 28th degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry—called Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept— Albert Pike said,
    "There is in nature one most potent force, by means whereof a single man, who could possess himself of it, and should know how to direct it, could revolutionize and change the face of the world.""
    Last edited by solomon levi; 11-27-2010 at 01:47 PM.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  2. #2
    Yes, this is something I have been keeping to myself, and even something that I would probably still seek to keep secret if you hadn't revealed it, but I suppose the word is out now.

    The Black Sun represents our prima materia (Saturn). It represents a matter, a state of matter, and in a sense, the black stage. To me, the black sun doesn't represent the end goal, but rather the starting point.

    In a discussion of the 28th degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry—called Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept— Albert Pike said,
    "There is in nature one most potent force, by means whereof a single man, who could possess himself of it, and should know how to direct it, could revolutionize and change the face of the world.""
    Indeed, it is not enough to take hold of the Black Sun, or the Black Root, but we must seek to rectify & purify. Who shall overcome Saturn, and take hold of the Golden Scepter of the Ages? Who shall transform the world, and bring about the Great Spiritual City, our New Zion? So shall that one bring about the End of Time! This is the Goal of Goals, and Task of Tasks. It is the end result of the universe.

    Shalt thou be the dragon, or the lamb? Hearken to the lamb, the one that has overcome time! The wealth of the lamb exceeds all the wealth of the universe.
    Last edited by Aleilius; 11-27-2010 at 06:56 PM.

  3. #3
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    Hmmm. Thank you Aleilius.
    Reminds me of something a modern alchemist which I have great respect for
    said to me - "we have to destroy mass to get a little star out"
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  4. #4
    "all crying aloud " Osiris is a black god.""
    IMHO thats that orig. chaos left here, in which the light is, our starting matter.
    Now I am not interested in some cosmos analogies, but with this matter itself or its relation 2 Lamp.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    Hmmm. Thank you Aleilius.
    Reminds me of something a modern alchemist which I have great respect for
    said to me - "we have to destroy mass to get a little star out"
    Hi SL, there's really no need to thank me! I'm just a somewhat annoying knowledge hoarder.

    Yes, the thing you say is correct. The heart of our black matter contains a philosophical occult seed that gives forth a never-ending light. It is our little occult star. The ancients have known about it for ages. It is a great secret. It is a vulgar, and philosophical spiritual light. It is our lamp.

  6. #6
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    Context is also key as to which Black Sun - as has been pointed out it can be the start of the work as the black matter containing the hidden sun/star - or, it can be the final product of the work - the Hidden/Unseen (thus dark) Sun brought out and condensed to matter. (Starts with Saturn and ends with Saturn - on a higher scale). To know which it is, is to know what to do with it, and where to find it.



    Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth-Ra View Post
    ... Starts with Saturn and ends with Saturn - on a higher scale ...
    I do not believe this to be the case. The end result is not Saturn on a higher scale. It is a completely different entity. Well, all of this is in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth-Ra View Post
    To know which it is, is to know what to do with it, and where to find it.
    It is easy to say such things, but actually putting it to practice is very difficult. Personally, again, in my opinion, I believe that only a minority of alchemists out there know the truth of this subject. It is this, or it is that, but how do you know for sure? It has been so very well confused! The Masters have sought to confuse this subject for good reasons, and these reasons should be upheld even today (especially in these troubled times). We cannot let evil men obtain such precious secrets. It is not for us to give, but such revelations are to be only revealed by God to the select.
    Last edited by Aleilius; 11-28-2010 at 03:52 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleilius View Post
    I do not believe this to be the case. The end result is not Saturn on a higher scale. It is a completely different entity. Well, all of this is in my opinion.
    Thats ok, you are just misunderstanding Saturn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleilius View Post
    It is easy to say such things, but actually putting it to practice is very difficult. Personally, again, in my opinion, I believe that only a minority of alchemists out there know the truth of this subject. It is this, or it is that, but how do you know for sure?
    That could very well be said about anyone or anything - including any fanciful authors that should roll across the tongue so freely - especially since none of the ancient ones are around to prove anything.
    Also, is easy to say, because it is a generalized Pattern (and i didnt claim any particular matter in what i said), and not a totally physical Pattern either; matter + spirit = Truth, either without the other is just more of the same, vulgar with vulgar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aleilius View Post
    It has been so very well confused! The Masters have sought to confuse this subject for good reasons, and these reasons should be upheld even today (especially in these troubled times). We cannot let evil men obtain such precious secrets. It is not for us to give, but such revelations are to be only revealed by God to the select.
    Im of the opinion that we have nothing to hide - secrets are never kept by people - we are a chatty creature, hence a forum, for instance. What will be revealed, will be revealed, what will stay hidden, will stay hidden - Art knows how to protect itself - the Art has survived to many centuries, to many wars, to many inquisitions for it to be a human effort. The old authors even stated that when they spoke arcanely they were being open, and when speaking openly, were actually being quite quiet on the matter.

    Its all in what the individual is ready to understand - and if you just flat out are NOT supposed to even mention or speak on something... there is no question that you will NOT speak on it - ive found that out myself.

    How fortunate for us that the sun (or Black Sun, even) does not rise and set based on what we say or do, but rather the universe is larger than us and will take care of itself - we have the most pleasant fortune, then, to learn and grow and capitalize on its Principles and Arts so as to better ourselves and connection with it All.



    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth-Ra View Post
    Thats ok, you are just misunderstanding Saturn.



    That could very well be said about anyone or anything - including any fanciful authors that should roll across the tongue so freely - especially since none of the ancient ones are around to prove anything.
    Also, is easy to say, because it is a generalized Pattern (and i didnt claim any particular matter in what i said), and not a totally physical Pattern either; matter + spirit = Truth, either without the other is just more of the same, vulgar with vulgar.




    Im of the opinion that we have nothing to hide - secrets are never kept by people - we are a chatty creature, hence a forum, for instance. What will be revealed, will be revealed, what will stay hidden, will stay hidden - Art knows how to protect itself - the Art has survived to many centuries, to many wars, to many inquisitions for it to be a human effort. The old authors even stated that when they spoke arcanely they were being open, and when speaking openly, were actually being quite quiet on the matter.

    Its all in what the individual is ready to understand - and if you just flat out are NOT supposed to even mention or speak on something... there is no question that you will NOT speak on it - ive found that out myself.

    How fortunate for us that the sun (or Black Sun, even) does not rise and set based on what we say or do, but rather the universe is larger than us and will take care of itself - we have the most pleasant fortune, then, to learn and grow and capitalize on its Principles and Arts so as to better ourselves and connection with it All.



    ~Seth-Ra
    Okay Seth-Ra, whatever you say, but I think you're absolutely wrong. I think YOU are the one that's misunderstanding, and confused. I'm sure others would agree with me on this issue, but it would be wrong of me to speak for them. Let them voice their word.

    This is the only time I have detected an ill-tone from you before.

  10. #10
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    lol Well, im pretty sure anyone that wants to, will voice what they wanted anyway, so ok.

    And, its ok if you disagree with me.

    What ill tone? Wasn't meant to be one.


    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

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