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Thread: The Celestial Agriculture

  1. #11
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    Last edited by abdo; 11-11-2011 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #12
    Yes I found these links a few years back and I was thinking about this the other day when I realized Marl was limestone...
    A few functional dew ponds can still be found on the highest ridges of England's bleak Sussex Downs and on the Marlborough and Wiltshire Hills, and connected to castle walls. They always contain some water that apparently condenses from the air during the night.
    Marlborough~the land of Marl? No doubt then that some of these would then be natural "dew ponds", however for our work of course a different dew is implied.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerc View Post
    Yes I found these links a few years back and I was thinking about this the other day when I realized Marl was limestone...

    Marlborough~the land of Marl? No doubt then that some of these would then be natural "dew ponds", however for our work of course a different dew is implied.
    None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interesting in waters people here are wasting time looking for (in such thread of this forum 26 pages till now talking about it) .
    They are using key salts, treated in special ways, in their works.
    They are using it as a dissolvent combined with their works either solid or liquid state (dissolved naturally, for example near humid places in wells, autoclaves, couscous pot and alike).
    They are also using liquid of such metals as a secret solvent.
    They are using vinegar mixed with salts and make wonders with it.
    They are using soaps of 7 salts.
    Last edited by abdo; 11-11-2011 at 10:41 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdo View Post
    None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interested in waters people here are wasting time looking for.


    Quoth myself from right now:

    None of the Non-Arabic Adepts (that I have met), were wasting their time looking for whatever it is that Arabic Adepts are wasting their time on
    Diversity, Abdo, Diversity!

    If 'Time' is being generated, then it is needed, and thus never wasted!

    No matter what Arabic (or Non-Arabic) 'Adepts' are (or aren't) 'wasting' their No.1 Liquids, No.2 Solids or No.3 Dogmas on

    On the other hand - If SOME believe that OTHERS are 'wasting their time' - then you can be sure there are also OTHERS who believe that some OTHER 'Others' are also 'wasting their time'...

    Taking it all the way, we inevitably come to the conclusion that ALL Time is a complete waste of time

    Oh, the Cosmic Irony!

    Now, seriously:

    My friendly advice to you (and to everyone else), is to remain open to concepts which are not necessarily part of the comfort-zone landscapes you are already familiar with...
    _______________________________________

    PS (for everyone here):

    Quoth Madonna:

    Papa Don't Preach!

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 11-11-2011 at 11:08 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    My friendly advice to you (and to everyone else), is to remain open to concepts which are not necessarily part of the comfort-zone landscapes you are already familiar with...
    Jaber bin Hayyan has written hundreds of books with twisted language to mislead people and he got his tutor Ja'afar Al Sadique angry by telling him either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdo View Post
    either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.
    Not sure I'm following, BUT:

    I am simply pointing out that it may be constructive and mutually enhancing to elevate Diversity and Open-Mindedness, above Self-Righteousness and Dogma.

    Applying this concept may work quite well for various Alchemical Waters, 'Celestial Agriculture', and pretty much everything else...

    Nobody is forcing you to embrace their views. And if you merely disagree with them, it does NOT mean they are 'wasting their time'.

    That's my whole point...
    ------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 11-12-2011 at 03:15 PM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by abdo View Post
    None of the Arabic Adepts I have met, where interesting in waters people here are wasting time looking for (in such thread of this forum 26 pages till now talking about it) .
    They are using key salts, treated in special ways, in their works.
    They are using it as a dissolvent combined with their works either solid or liquid state (dissolved naturally, for example near humid places in wells, autoclaves, couscous pot and alike).
    They are also using liquid of such metals as a secret solvent.
    They are using vinegar mixed with salts and make wonders with it.
    They are using soaps of 7 salts.
    Quote Originally Posted by abdo View Post
    Jaber bin Hayyan has written hundreds of books with twisted language to mislead people and he got his tutor Ja'afar Al Sadique angry by telling him either you write books that people can follow or you stop writing.

    I agree with you these practices are the oldest, the most straight foward, and they were without a doubt, the processes the ancients were alluding to in most cases.

    About the thread you speak of,... I agree, partially, because the ancients were unaware of these practices and were not given to irrational/abstract thought, the very need for survival dominated their thoughts and all they knew of alchemy stemmed from their direct knowledge of nature and God because they lived soley off the land and slept under the stars, they literally put down rocks for their pillows, so it is clear this was not the method wherby the philosophers filled their books with, since the ancients laid down the ground work that all succeeding generations would follow in our art, the science of hermes.....

    Now that being said, there are, other ways of working that the ancients were ignorant of that require no physical matter for the support or collection of spiritus mundi,.... no minerals,.... no salts but those methods, which are the most "occult" and hidden in our art and frankly should remain so,.... they are not, however, the subject of this thread nor are they the method that nature uses, or in any uncertain terms, at least not directly. The universal spirit works with nature through the physical realm, it attaches itself therin this much is clear, because this is how every living thing receives sustanance, through a physical matter, subtle energies or astral spirits attach themselves to salts or become salts physically, this shows their initial appearance on the physical realm, even in our so called "purist" methods, they will appear breifly,..... read the Compass of The Wise and the great exposition on salt it gives as well as The Golden Chain of Homer who seem to have had the same author and you will be convinced.

    However to know this method being described here...... the Celestial Agriculture,.... for the wise, it will lead to a better understanding of how nature works not only in material reality but also in the most abstract of ways as well because when we follow the trail,.....well, then thats when we become familiar with these laws that allow for its manifestation, then and only then can we can move on to applying them without a physical matter for its support and furthermore to suggest that natures laws even in the slightest can be ignored, is complete folly.

    And IMO it is also folly to move on to these so called "purist" methods without first mastering the ones that use matter, but all this shows in the end to someone who has acquired this wisdom is that the matters are not important, only natures laws and the application of them.....How nature generates or more aptly the conditions required for generation to take place(implies the initial appearance of mercury philosophical, i.e. spirit). How that which is generated is matured and is moved from adolescence into adulthood or again more aptly the conditions required for this action to take place(implies the maturation of that inital mercury into a fixed philosophical sulfur, e.g. soul)....

    Therfore the laws are the same with or without the supporting matter because the heart of the matter is not the atomic substance of the physical matter which is explained by chemistry but instead its spiritual kernel, the spiritus mundi or universal spirit.......All the most learned and wise of the philosophers and alchemists agreed, it is the main subject or chief constiuient of the philosophers stone and no other substance should come into it contact with it that it can ingress into or become defiled by it until we are ready to specify it...if our wish then is to specify it to the mineral realm, therfore a fixed and pure metallic sulfur is required.

    The problem then becomes how to attract enough of it without it ingressing into the collecting matrix, that's what this thread I have created here is attempting to explain and not in my fondest dreams and unsupported, unsubstantiated musings, but in light of the philosophers writings which I often quote in support of.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-12-2011 at 11:53 PM.

  8. #18
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    Extracted from Rams Collection ARCANUM ARCANORUM (SECRET OF SECRETS)

    Here begins a great secret of nature, wherein great works of wonder can be found. The philosophers say of this seed which produces the metals, as follows: That a heavenly influence falls down in accordance with the order of God, and mingles with the earthly quality (or: property). When such a conjunction takes place, it gives birth to an earthly being as the third. That is the beginning of our seed and its first provenance.
    If we were now to ask a nearby and inexperienced man, saying that the Aer is a Sal. comm. (common salt) from which all creatures come, by which they grow and are sustained, without which nothing can be done; and that we can also obtain a beautiful and white Sal comm. in strong, hot sunshine in an open field, at home in one’s own house, in all rooms and quarters; and again also in ice-cold in rather a large quantity, with which one can perform wondrous deeds - without doubt, he would reply scornfully and sneeringly, and say: This one is talking foolishly. But it does not matter if he of I be foolish. It is still true. Its truth will be proven if we proceed as follows:
    Take a beautiful, round, framed mirror, which should be in size and depth like the scale of a balance, and also in such a form and depth that the sun’s rays can converge in its center. Let this mirror stand for only a few days under the open sky, when the sun shines hottest (NB. At night, it is to be put away.) Then in the center of the mirror, a snowhite Sal Comm. will gather, which can be scraped off with a knife into a small glass bowl. Of that Sal comm. several ounces can be collected in a short time. If it is left standing thus, well protected from rain and wind, it will increase in weight and quantity. In this Sal comm. there are the four Elements, Aer, Aqua Ignis, Terra. Out of Terra it has become corporeal and tangible in a visible and tangible body. If it is put in warmth, it flows like water. In it the Element Ignis is hidden and buried, which may be noticed by its taste. After it has been standing or putrefying for a long time, it turns quite blood-red, like a fiery ruby. But whoever wants to catch the air into an ice-cold water under the open sky or in hot sunshine, and much of it, must do as follows:
    Take the glass or Instrument here illustrated, put a moderate Ignis under it, standing in hot sand, and the heat will attract the air-water B and fill the glass, which is so cold that you cannot hold it to your mouth. And this water is the vinegar of the philosophers or their Menstruum . This Menstruum or water also contains the elements . Out of air it has turned into a tangible water. If this water is boiled down or putrefied, it likewise turns into a ruby-red stone. In this way, therefore, this Sal comm. of nature is seen in a soft or hard form, as one wants. This is now a noble medicine for all harmful diseases, whatever they may be. Let the big shot like it or not (literally: let the great Hans like it or not!), let him understand it or not, it is nonetheless true, for with his unbelieving puffed head he can neither end nor know this Art. This Sal Commun.of nature, if it is prepared in this way by itself, is the highest qrcanum , or secret, of nature, which God has put into nature, because it costs so little and is obtained without great trouble and work.
    Now take, in the name of the Lord, as much as you have or wish of this noble air-salt at lit. A., and of the air—water at lit. B. twice or three times as much. Put them together into a vial—glass and place it on a warm stove, and all will melt and soon turn into a light (in color) water (D). NB. But if you wish to turn the air—water into a very high Spiritum (C), with which one can do wonders, it is much stronger and works all the faster, NB. is the following written for your pleasure, (or you are at liberty to do it).

    TESTING THIS SAL COMM.

    If this air-salt is made quite crystalline - it happens if one lets it dissolve or melt in its own air—water and then lets one half or two—thirds of the water evaporate, the rest is put in a clean glass in a cold spot or cellar - crystals will sprout quite white and clear, and these immediately flow again and are quite pretty and sweet. If you now let this salt flow in a small silver bowl under a muffle, it will swallow gold and Luna in momento. When it no longer swallows Sol or Lunas leaves, it has dissolved everything. This is now one of the High Sol Potabil. with which something can be done in all sicknesses. Sile, sile. (Silence, silence!)
    Now we come to the work of a Particular recipe. Take some of the finest and thinly beaten Solis (gold), as much as you wish. Pour on it two or three parts of the above mentioned menstruum D., and it will dissolve if it is but put on a warm stove or in ashes. But if you wish to dissolve it still faster, take one Loth (one¬half ounce) of this air-salt (A), and Spiritus Nitri optimi brought to the highest degree 10 Loth. Let it stand as it is, not near the heat, and the Sal comm. will dissolve. With this salt dissolved in Spiritu Nitri you can dissolve gold, which will go fast.
    NB. The first modus with its own water is nevertheless better, even if it is somewhat slower and the air water is turned into a subtile Spiritu . If the gold, as said above, is but dissolved, seal the glass well and put it for three days in a lukewarm place. Then it will coagulate, and everything in the glass m.e.a. turns into salt. This hardened salt soon turns back into water. If gold has been dissolved in it, the water turns blood-red (E); but if silver has been dissolved in it, everything turns sky-blue.
    This salt and water collection depends on sun rather on moon or dew or stars or clay or malt and gold melt in it like ice.
    Last edited by abdo; 11-13-2011 at 11:22 AM.

  9. #19
    This is one example for what I was talking about salt, however the instructions here are incomplete, the result of a bad translation, which inverts the entire crux or integrity of the instruction. Here in the first part a pulvis solaris is implied...however I should caution you that this is not the spiritus mundi,.....remember what Fulcanelli says.... sunlight, however filtered or diffuse has a fatal reaction on unestablished entities and on natures generation...this is one of the natural laws I have been referring to.
    .Look here, we say, you who have laboured so hard, what are you
    claiming to do with your lighted furnaces, your many, varied and
    useless utensils? Do you hope to accomplish a veritable creation
    out of all the pieces? Certainly not, since the faculty of creation bellongs only to God, the one Creator. Then it must be a generative process
    which you hope to bring about within your materials. But in
    that case you must have the help of nature and you may be sure that
    this help will be refused to you, if, by ill fortune or from ignorance,
    you do not put nature in a position where its laws can be applied.
    What, then, is this primordial condition, which is essential if any
    generation is to take place? I will reply on your behalf: the total
    absence of any solar light, even when diffused or filtered. Look
    around you, consult your own nature. Do you not see that with man
    and with animals fecundation and generation take place, thanks to a
    certain disposition of organs, in complete obscurity, maintained until
    the time of birth? Is it on the surface of the earth-in full light-or
    within the earth itself-in darkness-that vegetable seeds can germinate
    and be reproduced? Is it during the day or the night that the
    life-giving dew falls, which feeds and vitalizes them? Take the mushroom,
    is it not during the night that it grows and develops? And as
    for you yourself, is it not also during the night, in sleep, that your
    organism repairs its losses, eliminates its waste matter, builds new
    cells, new tissue, in place of those burnt up and destroyed by daylight?
    There is no process, even down to the work of digestion, the
    assimilation of food and its transformation into blood and organic
    substance, which does not take place in the dark. Would you like to
    try an experiment? Take some fertile eggs and hatch them in a welllighted
    room. At the end of the incubation, all your eggs will contain
    dead embryos, more or less in a state of decomposition. Any chick
    that is born is blind, sickly and will not survive. That is the fatal
    effect of the sun, not on the vitality of established individuals, but on
    the generative process. Do not think either that these effects of a
    fundamental law of nature are limited to the organic kingdoms. Even
    minerals, in spite of their less obvious reaction, are subject to it,
    as well as animals and vegetables. It is well known that the production
    of a photographic image is based on the property, possessed by
    the salts of silver, of decomposing in light. These salts resume their
    inert, metallic state, whereas in the dark room they had acquired
    an active, living and sensitive quality
    However the second part of the instruction beginning with "take the glass or instrument here illustrated" provides a track to be dug provided we know what is missing . The first salt does not need to be used to allow the second salt to dissolve gold like ice in warm water, this first salt only provides the sulfur of the sun, the second lunar water/salt however is the true philosophical solvent because it contains the philosophical mercury.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-13-2011 at 11:12 PM.

  10. #20
    First, there is a
    universal salt of the nature of saltpeter and soil, in which the spirit of the
    world frequently resides.
    The first salt has the aspect of wool.................The first salt is the veritable Mercury of the Philosophers. It is the key that opens all the metals by the aid of which one extracts their tinctures. It dissolves everything radically
    Salamander, in Latin salamandra, comes from sal, salt, and mandra, which means stable
    and also rock hollow, solitude, hermitage. Salamandra then is the name of the salt of the
    stable, salt of the rock, or solitary salt...... From these etymologies we can draw the conclusion that the salt, spirit or fire takes birth in a stable,a rock hollow, a grotto... That is enough.
    Here! The hair/wool like salt naturally formed in some part of the world.



    The spirit of the world giving birth in a limestone grotto and accumulating on the cave walls, this is also a gold mine. I took these pictures myself, is it not as the classics describe it?





    Another description but sadly no picture: http://www.rkci.org/library/gsp/engle.htm

    All passages in Great Saltpetre Cave (Figure 3) are developed within the Ste. Genevieve Limestone Member. Identifying features of the Ste. Genevieve Limestone that can be observed within Great Saltpetre Cave include: 1) From entrance to Echo Auditorium: limestone is light gray, with some oolites (rounded accretionary bodies, resembling fish eggs 0.25 to 2 mm in diameter), pellets, and coated fossils...........
    "Cottonball" Crystals in Great Saltpetre Cave

    Tufts of fine, hair-like white crystals have been observed on occasion near the junction of the passages between the Echo Auditorium and the Ballroom. Closer inspection found clumps of crystals forming along cracks in the passage ceiling and subsequently falling to the floor. Ruling out other common cave minerals such as gypsum and aragonite, it was postulated that these crystals could be a nitrate mineral. Attempts to remove the crystals to a laboratory for analysis proved impossible because the crystals evaporated when exposed to surface conditions. Because saltpeter crystals, specifically niter, typically form in humidities lower than that of Great Saltpetre Cave (measured to be between 80-100% during different time of the year), and have not been reported to occur in caves in this part of the United States, the crystals are probably not nitrates.

    A second possibility is that the crystals are a soluble sulfate, epsomite [MgSO4 ·2H2 O] or mirabilite [Na2 SO4 ·10H2 0]. These minerals are also extremely susceptible to variations in temperature and humidity. Epsomite is stable at a temperature range of 10 to 15°C and a relative humidity below 88% (Hill and Forti, 1997). At temperatures and humidities above this range, the mineral will deliquesce (dissolve). It is believed that air currents generated by the junction of the passages in Great Saltpetre Cave have led to ideal climatic conditions for the cottonball mineral growth. The seasonal appearance of the crystals (i.e. typically present in the winter months) suggests that climate within the cave is highly dependent on the outside surface conditions allowing for the ideal conditions for the growth of these minerals during limited times of the year.
    .......speculation......speculation......they seem to disappear when one doesn't know how to handle them, only a true philosopher knows what they are and where to find them, and if he doesn't want to travel that far he can make them.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-14-2011 at 11:27 AM.

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