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Thread: The Celestial Agriculture

  1. #31
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    Hi roger,
    Is this the same process in Abrahams the Jews book?
    and Where does bismuth fit into all this?

  2. #32
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    This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...26_lime_EN.PNG

    Emerald Tablet reference, anyone? (what i mean, is the irony of listing it in the green sections - hell, selecting green as the color for it on the chart to begin with. )

    Thought it was fun. Good find SL. ^.^



    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Pleroma View Post
    Hi roger,
    Is this the same process in Abrahams the Jews book?
    The Book of Abraham The Jew gives many works...we are working similar to the first one given on the virgin marcz.....it ends by putting this solvent on gold wherby the philosophers stone is made...this was the method that Fulcanelli said whereby most authors filled their books, accessable in ancient times only to the wealthy because of the need for gold. In this path no minera of metal/oid is needed since the virtue of the solvent is drawn forth from where it originates, for the most part unspecified to the metallic realm, until it is placed on gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleroma View Post
    and Where does bismuth fit into all this?
    Bismuth is a lunar saturn and its minera like others of the same nature can be used to get a specified spirit that will again act on gold but only if used in an alchemical method not a spagerical one, in a similar manner then with the limestone(celestial agriculture) note here we work with a spirit extracted from the live minera not the dead metal/oid and a spirit can be eventually extracted which will be specified already, because as a metal/oid it becomes ingressable to the action of the universal spirit, this spirit crystallizes as an emerald salt, which shows its specification,(very important to note) which Abraham informs us is the real green lion of the ancients. This method that Abraham the Jew gives is limited in quantity to either the universal spirit the minera already contains in seminal makeup from the mine where nature begins her work on metals, or what it will additionally absorb by being put under the astral influences, so, many, many pounds of minera is needed to get an appreciable quantity of salt to work with. Note well here! It is the living spirit of seminal makeup we strive to extract not the dead metal, read the Golden Chain of Homer and you'll be convinced , by the fornicators, Mars and Venus whom Neptune catches in his love net, we understand the arsenical sulfur is Mars which coats and holds back our pure mercury, Venus or Diana, it is the dragon of Cyliani that needs to be defeated to unlock the matter of the two metallic natures, or rather arsenic and sulfur are the two metallic natures:

    Table of Generation (Golden Chain Of Homer)

    Anima Mundi
    Fire
    in
    Nitre and Salt
    United and fermented become
    acid and Corrosive
    dissolve a suitable Earth
    and form
    A vitriolic Soft butyraceous Gur; The above Vapours becoming more
    and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and
    constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour

    this setting by corroding forms nature
    vitriol, sulphur, arsenic,
    and by succeeding sulphur vapours, and also arsenical
    Vapours, they form and generate


    When Sulphur predominates ---------- When Arsenic predominates
    Sulphurous Macarsites ---------- Arsenical, Marcasites, Cobalt
    Pyritis, Antimony etc, Wolfram etc. --------------------- Bismuth etc.
    Mars Venus Sun -------------- Saturn Jupiter Moon

    When both principles are in equality
    they form [unidentified symbol] cinnabar mercury

    Mercury
    , what lies behind them is the universal spirit, our dove, our diana. Fulcanelli gives some clues in his dry way but I followed his lead till I found this from:
    Aesch-Mezareph or Purifying Fire:
    Lancea; in the Study of the Metallic Natures, the History of
    Phinehas, Numbers, c. 25, v. 7, belongs to this place. By the
    Fornicators are understood the (Masculine) Arsenical Sulphur, and the
    (feminine) dry Water unduly mixed, together in the Mineral.
    By the Spear of Phinehas is meant the Force of Iron acting upon the
    Matter to cleanse it of Dross: By which Iron, not only is the
    Arsenical Sulphur killed, but also the Woman herself is at length
    mortified; so that the Miracle of Phinehas may be fitly applied here.
    See also the Targum on this Place, i.e., Numbers, c. 25, v. 7. For
    the Nature of Iron is wonderful, as its Camea (whose lines add up to
    65 each way) shews.
    This is why in Fulcanelli's dry way, initially iron is used upon the minera which is not bismuth per se btw, to concquer its arsenical sulfur and extract its dry water:
    This primal substance has seen its evolution interrupted by the interposition of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats
    its pure mercury, holds it back
    , and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this
    primitive mercury, materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the
    shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of
    utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man
    An alternate method Abraham gives mixes the two methodologies, by getting the first unspecified solvent from the marcz and instead of putting it directly on gold, it is used it to wake up or open(addend and amend) the universal spirit already in seminal makeup from the minera, this is also the wet way of Cyliani, the path of cinnabar, marcasites and so on :
    From the combat that the knight, or secret sulphur, engages with the arsenical sulphur of
    the old dragon, is born the astral stone, white, heavy, shining as pure silver, and which
    appears to be signed, bearing the imprint of its nobility, its stamp (1) esoterically
    translated as the griffin, a sure indication of the union and peace between fire and water,
    between air and earth
    .....this then is put on gold once again as a ferment. There are however other ways of working of course that do not require gold, but Abraham The Jew doesn't give them, but if we read Fulcanelli we can be assured an alternate metallic sulfur will suffice.

    Finally I want to reiterate although I gave a more or less detailed response to your question however that this method being presented here is more universal than the work with mineras, because we work backwards with the Table of Generation and go straight back to the initial action where metals/oids take their origin:
    Anima Mundi Fire in Nitre and Salt United and fermented become acid and Corrosive dissolve a suitable Earth
    . So we take the nitre and the salt and separate from it the "anima mundi fire" or "secret fire" which is our "secret sulfur" and instead of dissolving an impure earth, "our earth" becomes a pure metallic sulfur, which becomes the ferment for our mercury.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-16-2011 at 01:22 AM.

  4. #34
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    hi roger,
    you cleared up the confusion i had with bismuth. thanks
    So how exactly would limestone be used to condense the spirit we want? Do we add the limestone inside the clay pots and urine, or make our own pot using limestone with urine? Im not really sure.
    By the way what is your ICON picture of?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pleroma View Post
    Do we add the limestone inside the clay pots and urine, or make our own pot using limestone with urine? Im not really sure.
    You make a pot yourself out of a limestone or marl mud, it will be your own artificial grotto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleroma View Post
    By the way what is your ICON picture of?
    What do you think it is?

  6. #36
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    The "hair, wool" in the middle of the mineral in your pic rogerc is obviously our salpeter.
    I have washed/thrown it away from a dried out bowl of very old GW which was on the attic for probably 1/2+ year, thinking it was some organic stuff, oh dear ...
    It somehow resembled some kind of organic stuff to me, like threads of a grub or even as a moist spider web from dew but of the thickness of hair and yes quite white.
    But on the other hand it also "crystallized/manifested" in a pattern not like a spider web which has a center but this was more like a fishnet, like this


    And while there are many spider webs which are also asynchronous or also resemble a fishnet this "stuff" was just evenly spread in the bowl. If it was organic it was threads of a grub but definitely no spider web, at least that's what I thought.

    May others think twice when/if you see/encounter it.

    Rueb

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rueb View Post
    The "hair, wool" in the middle of the mineral in your pic rogerc is obviously our salpeter.
    Not exactly...... but you are barking up the right oak tree, this is a particular form of the mineral bismuthinite..... but you are on the right track, it crystallizes that way because of the same reason our saltpeter does, because of the dry water it contains, I have found it on specimiens where it looks like an old mans hair and it stains the hands, just as described, an artifact of its arsenical sulfur that holds back and coagulates its pure mercury, sometimes the hair appears matted if it has been handled too much ....I buy samples here and there when they become available but they are quite rare and really expensive, which makes it very hard to come up with enough to work with, trust me I know. I'll throw up some pictures later of some of them that I have not ground up and put to use already. It absolutely does not bother me to release this information at this time, since most that are interested in working with minerals have probably already stumbled upon bismuth, as it is mentioned in some alchemical manuscipts as one of the more exotic mineras to work with, although they probably work erronously with the metal/oid instead of the minera and also because its rarity and its expense will make it impractical for most, while the balance of problem will be.... coming up with the astral solvent or correct order of operations to unlock it to get at the real green lion of the ancients.

    For the searchers it might interest you to know that sometime after I considered that marcasite was the philosophers minera matter and I began to write much about it, I realized that the word marcasite was much older than the current association it has with a certain state of iron sulfate. When I read Compass of The Wise which led me back to Paracelsus and The Book of Abraham the Jew which mentions puch and speaks of bismuth openly, I realized that this was indeed bismuth that they were alluding to, which name comes from the word wismuth, however it was often called marcasite as well, it was the matter whereby the miners said.......well you can read about it here: http://elements.vanderkrogt.net/element.php?sym=Bi
    There exist also a document from 1477 on a Bismuth mine at Schneeberg, this means that the name was already known and was apparently not uncommon in this area. Alchemy held that one metal could be transformed to another. Miners believed there were three types of Lead: Ordinary, Tin, and Bismuth. Silver was often found in ore below Bismuth. So they believed that Bismuth had progressed farthest but not completed its transmutation to Silver. Striking a vein of Bismuth, miners would say sadly, "Alas, we have come too soon."
    Edmund von Lippmann, in his book on the history of Bismuth (note), encountered in the literature from the 15th to the 17th century 21 names for the metal. In Cadet's Dictionnaire de Chimie of 1803 (note) Bismuth and some of its compounds are described in detail and given many synonym names: Demogorgon, Glaure, Nimphe, Étain de glace, and Étain gris (gray tin).
    Notice that some of the names are synomous with those used by the master wise including Fulcanelli.


    In other cases where it doesn't appear as hair it crystallizes identical to stibnite which stems from the fact that they are chemically very similiar and so as mineral specimiens go they were/are often confused for each other.... for my part, I know that it is impossible to extract a mercury from a non lunar saturn, bismuth of course is a lunar saturn while antimony is a solar one .... their use in the archemy and their affinities for other occult metals sulfurs/mercuries makes that clear enough, which is basis enough to catagorically expel antimony and its minera from the list of possible harbingers of our mercury, but that is why they are the basis for the red lion path, bismuth for the lunar phase and antimony for the solar......of course we know the metal/oids are dead and ineffectual.

    Now here is quite an interesting excerpt that I came across during my researches so the searchers might find it interesting, in the usual manner I will highlight the important parts that relates to our texts, given that the searchers are familiar with them, so I will not go into any great detail, only to repeat as I have said above that the work with mineras can be complementary to the virtue we will extract from the common nexus where metals take their origin .....in our astral solvent, but they are not at all necessary for the work in the Celestial Agriculture, so I don't want to veer to far off track...enough has been said of minerals. Here is the tract and the photos will be forthcoming:

    .....to which Agricola dimly refers. In Bermannus (p. 439),
    he says : " Bermannus.—I will show you another kind of mineral which is numbered
    " amongst metals, but appears to me to have been unknown to the Ancients ; we call it
    " bisemutum. Naevius.—Then in your opinion there are more kinds of metals than the
    " seven commonly believed ? Bermannus.—More, I consider ; for this which just now I
    " said we called bisemutum, cannot correctly be called plumbum candidum (tin) nor nigrum
    " (lead), but is different from both, and is a third one. Plumbum candidum is whiter and
    " plumbum nigrum is darker, as you see. Naevius.—We see that this is of the colour of
    " galena. Ancon.—How then can bisemutum, as you call it, be distinguished from galena ?
    " Bermannus.—Easily ; when you take it in your hands it stains them with black unless it
    " is quite hard.
    The hard kind is not friable like galena, but can be cut. It is blacker than
    " the kind of crude silver which we say is almost the colour of lead, and thus is different
    " from both. Indeed, it not rarely contains some silver. It generally shows that there is
    "silver beneath the place where it is found, and because of this our miners are accustomed
    " to call it the ' roof of silver.' They are wont to roast this mineral, and from the better
    " part they make metal ; from the poorer part they make a pigment of a kind not to be
    " despised." This pigment was cobalt blue (see note on p. 112), indicating a considerable
    confusion of these minerals
    . This quotation is the first description of bismuth, and the above
    text the first description of bismuth treatment. There is, however, bare mention of the
    mineral earlier, in the following single line from the Probierbüchlein (p. 1) : " Jupiter (con*' trois) the ores of tin and wismundt." And it is noted in the Nütliche Bergbüchlein in
    association with silver (see Appendix B).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerc View Post
    For the searchers it might interest you to know that sometime after I considered that marcasite was the philosophers minera matter and I began to write much about it, I realized that the word marcasite was much older than the current association it has with a certain state of iron sulfate. When I read Compass of The Wise which led me back to Paracelsus and The Book of Abraham the Jew which mentions puch and speaks of bismuth openly, I realized that this was indeed bismuth that they were alluding to, which name comes from the word wismuth, however it was often called marcasite as well, it was the matter whereby the miners said.
    Some of the Arabic recipes are using silver and golden marcasheeta (maybe marcasite) in their silver and gold works.
    Marcasheeta in Arabic manuscript has 4 kinds of different colors: Black iron, Silvery white, Red copper and Yellow Gold.

    Searching for their chemical formula in arabic websites lead me to this:
    Golden Marcasheeta : Copper alloy with zinc 30-40%.
    Silver Marcasheeta : Alloy of copper 50% + zinc 30% + nickel 20%.
    which I do not think is correct.
    In another website (I think is the correct name ) golden Marcasheeta is iron pyrite, iron sulfide, fool's gold.

    I think the marasheeta used in Arabic recipes would be the same as marcasite mentioned in different languages manuscripts.

    I think the silvery white marcasheeta is bismuth, the black iron marcasheeta is antimoney, the yellow gold marcasheeta is iron pyrite.

    marcasite
    The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | 2008 | Copyright http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/ma...:marcasit-full

    marcasite or white iron pyrites, a mineral closely resembling and having the same chemical composition (FeS 2 ) as pyrite . It differs from pyrite in that it is paler in color, becomes darker upon oxidation, and crystallizes in the orthorhombic system. Twinned crystals resembling cockscombs (cockscomb pyrites) or spearheads (spear pyrites) are of common occurrence. The mineral occurs in marls, clays, and limestones in many parts of the world.
    Last edited by abdo; 11-19-2011 at 02:17 PM.

  9. #39
    Yes marcasite was in ancient times a catch all phrase for the beginning metamorphosis of metals in their ore bodies and not specifically meant to represent iron sulfide, for all intents and purposes used in its correct alchemical context,.... marcasite is the "metallic root",...
    Gur --- The portion of the earth which the corrosive [vapor] has been unable to dissolve completely, is made subtle, dirty, and greasy in part. Alchemists call it a metallic gur, or the first matter of metals, but wrongly so, because it is the first and nearest matter to sulphur and arsenic. When arsenic becomes marcasite, that then is the very nearest matter to metals, because metals spring directly from marcasite and not from this gur which is only the distant matter of metals. This gur or dirty substance is made ever finer by the rising corrosive vapors and is more and more dissolved. And the more it becomes subtle, the more it congeals the corrosive within itself, and that makes it sulphurous and arsenical. This arsenic is increasingly ripened into marcasite, and the marcasite in turn into metal. Such is the progress of metals, which we intend to show ever more clearly.

    When the vapors rise into the cracks and crevices of the rocks, they turn into water because of their condensation (while more and more rise unceasingly). This water contains the intermingled spirit of salt and saltpeter, which spirit is known by all alchemists to be corrosive. Here, however, in the center, it is surrounded and diluted by much Phlegma and water. Such spirits adhere to rocks and earth by their sharpness, corrode and dissolve them, make them subtle, swollen, sticky, greasy and dirty, and turn them into a moist gur which lies between the rocks and the earth like meat interlarded with bacon. But often it penetrates outside due to the swelling and adheres to the walls, as may be seen in old galleries and mines. The more dissolved and refined such dissolved earth becomes through vapors and salty spirits, the more it swells, pressing and driving out the remaining moisture by this swelling. In turn, this moisture runs back to the center or elsewhere into other corners and holes of the earth. This swollen earth or gur now has no peace, because the continually rising and subsequent vapors are attacking it ever more, adhere to it, congeal and coagulate with the earth; and the more such corrosive vapors follow, the more fiery, sulphurous the earth becomes. The more sulphurous it becomes, the higher it swells, and more moisture it drives off, and becomes the drier the longer it lasts. The drier it becomes, however, the more the sulphurous component part loses its combustibility and thereby acquires the name of mercury, or rightly, arsenic, which has originated in the sulphurous acidity. It no longer burns, but is still volatile. This volatility, however, is gradually more bound by the central heat between the stones, and thereby congealed and coagulated, so that it is transformed into a marcasite. If the digestion or earthy central heat is strong, the marcasite is congealed into a metal; but if it is weak, it remains what it is or becomes a marcasite or arsenic choke-damp, or pyrite. "~ The Golden Chain of Homer
    so in addition to iron sulfate pyrites/marcasites we have arsenopyrite, chalcopyrite, the cobalt/bismuth/nickel pyrites but they all definitely show in the genesis the intial state of metallic confusion, so it is clear the universal spirit is working here, just as the Golden Chain of Homer suggests, the arsenic prevailing minerals giving birth to metals with a white lunar sulphur/mercury while the sulfur prevailing minerals giving birth to the red solar sulfur/mercury metals. Then we have Fulcanelli's description:
    Its traditional name, the stone of the philosophers, is descriptive enough of the body to
    serve as a useful basis for its identification. It is, indeed, genuinely a stone, for, out of the
    mine, it shows the external characteristics common to all ores. It is the chaos of the sages,
    in which the four elements are contained, but in a confused, disorganized manner. It is
    our old man and the father of metals which owe their origin to it, as it represents the first
    earthly metallic manifestation. It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena,
    cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc.
    All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it
    with their name.

    In addition.....
    marcasite
    The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | 2008 | Copyright http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/ma...:marcasit-full

    marcasite or white iron pyrites, a mineral closely resembling and having the same chemical composition (FeS 2 ) as pyrite . It differs from pyrite in that it is paler in color, becomes darker upon oxidation, and crystallizes in the orthorhombic system. Twinned crystals resembling cockscombs (cockscomb pyrites) or spearheads (spear pyrites) are of common occurrence. The mineral occurs in marls, clays, and limestones in many parts of the world
    Very..... very good find abdo, here is what Fulcanelli said:
    Of all the classified ores, iron pyrite is the most common and the best
    known. The black ferruginous masses in variously sized balls, in shell-like
    agglomerations, in nodules, are often encountered in fields, on the sides of paths, in
    chalky terrain. Country children often play with these marcasites which show a fibrous
    crystalline radiating texture when they are broken. Sometimes they contain small
    quantities of gold
    I can attest to this because a grew up near a place where the terrian was chalky with many fossils and I often found these marcasite balls embedded in the limestone outcroppings where a nearby steam had erroded it to reveal them. And anyone who has actually encountered them cannot say that this iron and metallic confusion has come from any other place than the radiating point within the limestone itself from where these balls to form, as there are no traces of any kind of iron/ metallic staining in any cracks within the limestone to indicate they formed from a leaching action of surrounding minerals into the limestone. So the action can only be explained by the mechanism the Golcen Chain of Homer gives above, limestone being the birthing/nurseing matrix of our "intermingled spirit of salt and saltpeter".

    So our task again with the Celestial Agriculture is to retrive this intermingled spirit of salt and saltpeter from one of two or both places....where it takes its initial origin from the astral spirits of nature and or from the mineral ore where it is locked up, provided it has not already abondoned through completion or been driven from it, so when working with minerals it is important to know where the virtue truely lies hid so that we keep the right part and not work with the dead party.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-20-2011 at 10:05 AM.

  10. #40
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    Hey RogerC.
    I was reading something on the references to the rock and the bethel stone.
    I'm not arguing limestone - it makes a lot of sense as bringing forth water and making it sweet.
    But there is one of the references that specifically state that this stone is of flint:
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/8-15.htm

    Oh, here's another - "oil from the flinty rock":
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/32-13.htm

    Here it is a sandstone in the Coronation chair:
    http://www.revelationsofthebible.com...illarStone.htm
    Last edited by solomon levi; 11-23-2011 at 05:46 AM.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

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