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Thread: The Celestial Agriculture

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    Hey RogerC.
    I was reading something on the references to the rock and the bethel stone.
    I'm not arguing limestone - it makes a lot of sense as bringing forth water and making it sweet.
    But there is one of the references that specifically state that this stone is of flint:
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/8-15.htm


    Oh, here's another - "oil from the flinty rock":
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/32-13.htm

    Here it is a sandstone in the Coronation chair:
    http://www.revelationsofthebible.com...illarStone.htm
    Number one the british coronation stone is not the bethel stone it has been carbon dated and its geology traced to the british isle not the holy land, so it cannot be, these claims have already been disproved years ago thats why I never mentioned it.

    Number two the bible quote of Moses drawing forth water from the flinty rock is not the same as Genesis (28:10–19) which describes Jacob's dream and the Beth-el stone.....I invite you to contemplate why the author of The Mutus Liber put the scene of Jacobs Ladder on the cover and hid backwards all the pertinent quotes from the bible re-iterating of the dew of heaven and the fat of the land, the corn and the wine, but no mention of bible quotes describing Moses striking the flinty rock, so they seem to be totaly unrelated here.

    One method use the nature's own way by which the dew of heaven is attracted into the fat of the land, which is why I began this thread with the foriegn essays on agriculture, expositioning the use of marl to attract the universal spirit for agricultural purposes. Of course I did not force limestone into the iconography of the fat of the land,.... if you remember back at my eariler writings a year or so ago, I was forcing clay into it but the more I read, the more I realized it couldn't be clay, all clues pointed away from red clays which seem to be more acidic and more towards an fatty alkaline earth, thus to limestone and so there is more evidence for it than sandstone since we can very easily trace the geology of Bethel and know for certain that the rock Jacob annointed was limestone. And when we take into account the method suggested by the Mutus Liber we can see this is in line with the method of Cyliani of making the astral spirit since his successor tells his student to use gypsum through the Celestial Agriculture. What I have written in this thread is the result of three years of searching and well documented researches soundly supported by the classical writings that I will be putting all into a book, it is not the result of a fondness I have with a dogmatic view I have personally formulated that I refuse to abandon, but quite the opposite, I have allowed my views to bend and become molded by the classical writings and clues left in them along with solid experimentation till my views have finaly solidified into some pretty concrete masonic views concerning this path, enough that I can now consider myself an authority on the matter IMO.

    The method of Moses striking the rock being a different matter altogether, since this method involves an hidden and occult striking or speaking of/ to the rock that gives pure spiritus mundi, not the extraction of a salt impregnated with the dew of heaven like the celestial agriculture gives, a method I will never speak openly about, although I do practice it as well.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-23-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerc View Post
    Number one the british coronation stone is not the bethel stone it has been carbon dated and its geology traced to the british isle not the holy land, so it cannot be, these claims have already been disproved years ago thats why I never mentioned it.

    Number two the bible quote of Moses drawing forth water from the flinty rock is not the same as Genesis (28:10–19) which describes Jacob's dream and the Beth-el stone.....I invite you to contemplate why the author of The Mutus Liber put the scene of Jacobs Ladder on the cover and hid backwards all the pertinent quotes from the bible re-iterating of the dew of heaven and the fat of the land, the corn and the wine, but no mention of bible quotes describing Moses striking the flinty rock, so they seem to be totaly unrelated here.

    One method use the nature's own way by which the dew of heaven is attracted into the fat of the land, which is why I began this thread with the foriegn essays on agriculture, expositioning the use of marl to attract the universal spirit for agricultural purposes. Of course I did not force limestone into the iconography of the fat of the land,.... if you remember back at my eariler writings a year or so ago, I was forcing clay into it but the more I read, the more I realized it couldn't be clay, all clues pointed away from red clays which seem to be more acidic and more towards an fatty alkaline earth, thus to limestone and so there is more evidence for it than sandstone since we can very easily trace the geology of Bethel and know for certain that the rock Jacob annointed was limestone. And when we take into account the method suggested by the Mutus Liber we can see this is in line with the method of Cyliani of making the astral spirit since his successor tells his student to use gypsum through the Celestial Agriculture. What I have written in this thread is the result of three years of searching and well documented researches soundly supported by the classical writings that I will be putting all into a book, it is not the result of a fondness I have with a dogmatic view I have personally formulated that I refuse to abandon, but quite the opposite, I have allowed my views to bend and become molded by the classical writings and clues left in them along with solid experimentation till my views have finaly solidified into some pretty concrete masonic views concerning this path, enough that I can now consider myself an authority on the matter IMO.

    The method of Moses striking the rock being a different matter altogether, since this method involves an hidden and occult striking or speaking of/ to the rock that gives pure spiritus mundi, not the extraction of a salt impregnated with the dew of heaven like the celestial agriculture gives, a method I will never speak openly about, although I do practice it as well.
    Nice way to make something objective personal.
    Yeah, you're the epitome of objectivity RogerC.
    Did you miss the sentence where I said I wasn't arguing limestone?
    Is that why you come back with all this limestone dogma defensively?
    I suppose i should just assume you will be that way in the future and not post to you.
    Sorry for posting some objective statements that don't belong to me.
    I'll assume from now on you are too sensitive/personal to entertain any other views.
    It's great your alchemy has taught you not to live in the past.
    Last edited by solomon levi; 11-23-2011 at 07:12 AM.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  3. #43
    hey solomon levi, did you objective consider that rogerc will never speak openly about a flint?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by horticult View Post
    hey solomon levi, did you objective consider that rogerc will never speak openly about a flint?
    Yes, I've considered that. But i doubt that is what is happening.

    I'll tell you something interesting - Aaron's rod = iron rod.
    Besides the phonetics of Aaron and iron, we see in Numbers 17:8 that Aaron's
    rod was planted in the ground and brought forth buds, blossoms and ripe almonds.
    When we do the gematria on almonds/ShQDIM, we get 1014 which is also the
    number for BRVL OShVTh which means "prepared iron/steel".

    So if you strike a limestone with steel, you don't get water.
    But if you strike a flint with a steel rod, you get sparks/fire which would probably
    make someone say flint is the Bethel stone or "house of God" since fire lives there.

    On the other hand, if we strike a limestone with a staff, and the staff is a symbol for fire
    as in the tarot, etc (staffs/wands), then heating limestone with fire may actually pull water
    from the air/deliquesce. It was said that this stone was the source of their water through
    the desert.

    Anyway, RogerC falsely assumes that i am promoting silicates again. If i had never heard of silicates,
    I would still post this information in relation to the Bethel stone, simply because it is out there and
    deserves to be considered, as any good scientist would. As i said, I don't doubt the efficacy of a
    limestone path; I'm just aware of other paths as well.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  5. #45
    The description of Jacob's ladder appears in the Book of Genesis (28:10–19):

    Jacob left Beersheba, and went toward Haran. He came to the place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it! And behold, the Lord stood above it [or "beside him"] and said, "I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your descendants; and your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and by you and your descendants shall all the families of the earth bless themselves. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you." Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the Lord is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."

    Afterwards, Jacob names the place and the stone, "Bethel" (literally, "House of God").
    Any reference to naming the stone Bethel because of sparks when struck with iron, any mention of flint? Negative, it was all because of the vision or dream and what God told him about the land, the land being the one proper for our work of course.

    But there is one of the references that specifically state that this stone is of flint:
    http://biblelexicon.org/deuteronomy/8-15.htm
    Nothing personal just a report but your statement that the bible names flint specifically as the Bethel stone is not from anywhere in the bible or the link you provided, it is your own statement you are trying to make w/o any support to help lend credence to your biases towards silicates, that much is clear.

    Anyway, RogerC falsely assumes that i am promoting silicates again.
    Sure seems like it, we have this saying where I am from..." if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck".

    . If i had never heard of silicates,
    I would still post this information in relation to the Bethel stone, simply because it is out there and
    deserves to be considered, as any good scientist would. As i said, I don't doubt the efficacy of a
    limestone path; I'm just aware of other paths as well
    Then why mention it here? Or are you just getting even with me for talking about limestone in a thread about silicates? If so then touche! I hope that soon you can write a very detailed thread on this forum on the use of or path of silicates to create the water that nothing in our art can be done without, backed up by pages and pages of classical works, coupled with your own experiments, I very much look foward to reading it and following it.
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-24-2011 at 08:44 AM.

  6. #46
    For the readers........ heres more to chew on from Hollandus as if I haven't already come up with enough classical writing to support my thesis here is more, now I will only mention the first three fingers since they were mentioned as well in The Cabala Mineralis:

    The mine of our mercury is our saltpetre not that of the vulgar.
    Our sharp bitter vitriol is not that of the vulgar
    Our ammoniac is not that of the vulgar
    :

    The Hand of the Philosophers ~Johan Isaac HOLLANDUS

    Now then, I will teach my child and describe the secret, hidden matter of the wise philosophers and masters of the true Art Alchemia. Nobody can use it unless he take the oath and swear not to divulge the Art and secrets and hidden signs of the sages, except he finds that it would be a good placement. In that case, he should also request the oath that that man should not use the Art except for the salvation of his soul. Only then can he be given the secret signs of the philosophers or sages, with their hidden signs and meanings.

    1. The Thumb



    First look at the thumb on which stands the crown next to the moon, one quarter old. By this is meant saltpetre. For just as the thumb vigorously finishes off the hand, saltpeter does in the Art Alchemia, for he is the King and Lord of all salts. He is the mill through which everything must be ground. His nature is elsewhere sufficiently described.

    2. Index



    The second sign and secret of the philosophers is the Star with six points, standing above the foremost finger next to the thumb. It is compared to Roman Vitriolo, because no work that is to be perfect can be completed without vitriol; for it is the greatest and strongest salt after saltpeter. Its nature is described.

    3. The Middle Finger



    The third sign of the philosopher’s Hand is the Sun, standing above the third finger. By it, Sal Ammoniacum is designated, for apart from saltpeter and vitriol, no thing more powerful is found than *. That is why it is the third secret.

    The Preparation of Saltpetre

    Take living chalk (quicklime),(As I said elsewhere this is the calx viva of alchemical tracts) according to the quantity of the substance. Pour on it a good amount of urine.(Sound familiar, oh yeah it was Gerbant's instructions to his pupil) Let the lime slake in it; after it is slaked, let it settle, and pour it off above. If there are 6 lb of saltpeter, take 12 lb or pints of pure urine, even a little more, but not less. Put it all together into a clean kettle. Boil it and skim it with an iron spoon. Put the latter occasionally into the Liquor and squirt it into the fire. If it burns, or the coal becomes ignited by it, it is enough: Take it off and let it cool somewhat. Now pour it into a large linen sack, like a claret sack. This sack has to hang above a barrel, 5 feet above. Soon there sprout cones in the water, one above the other, as if it were crystal. Take these out --- it is the purified saltpeter. Now take the other saltpeter which did not sprout into cones. Fish it out and put it into the urine. Let it boil again as before and pour it also through the sack. It will immediately crystallize into long streaks, like the first. What stays behind is good for nothing; it is only salt which can be coagulated, and then it is common saltpeter.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Preparation of Vitriol

    Take 3 or 4 lb Vitriolum Romanum, dissolve it in Balneo, clarify it of its own impurity, and calcine it till it begins getting grey. Then dissolve it again, and let everything become pure again. Then calcine it until it becomes yellow. Now take the Tincture of Auripigment and gradually imbibe it onto it. Dry it carefully, imbibe it and dry it again until everything has been imbibed into it. Then it is ready to sublimate Mercury through it, so long that he no longer desires anything. Then his stomach is full, and add each time fresh Species. Then it turns into a precious Mercury and a salt more splendid than gold.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Preparation of the Sun or, Sal Ammoniaci
    Ammoniac is of different kinds, that is, natural and artificial. Natural ammoniac is found in the earth, and it is again twofold, white and red. Both are extracted from hard clean ores. It is sweet of taste; its nature is hot and dry; and it is good for washing and purifying. Further, there is also an artificial *, and that is better for this work than the natural; it is also nobler than salt, and changes Mercury into water. When it has been prepared with it, grind it and put it into a humid spot to dissolve. With it, one accomplishes the solution of iron and lead into living silver; and it is gold which the dryness of the fire has congealed. It is hot and humid and is a subtle spirit for the Elixir, for without it, it could not be done. How to sublimate it, I will yet teach you, although through it the Corpora are not transmuted white or red into another substance, except by means of other spirits, it nevertheless gives to the spirits their entrance and exit; it purges and cleans the Corpora of their blackness, leaving the spirits mingles with the bodies, while itself going away.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sal Ammonicum, or the Philosophers’ Sun

    Ammoniac is the sun of the philosophers, which shines through all things and is the noblest Secret of the hand, for by it I will teach you how to make the whole secret of the Tinctures, and in this way you can, if you wish, extract all other tinctures and use them for the great philosophers’ stone. For the Lapis Minor you extract the things from the minerals, for the Lapis Majori from the herbs and Species that are not human; for like makes its like, a horse begets a horse, etc. Therefore, prepare like to its like; otherwise you follow wrong ways in this Art.

    First I will teach you how to extract the tincture from gold, and how to make spirit and oil. Change the gold to a subtle calx through calcinations. Then take a broad glass slab or a glass vessel. Put the calx into it and pour on it good distilled wine vinegar. Into a Nossel, put 3j of the middle finger’s Sun, and pour it on the gold calx in the vessel, reaching two fingers’ breadth above it. Set it into the Balneum or in a hot reflection of the sun. Then there will arise a small yellow skin on top, as if it were oil. Remove this with a silver gilt spoon, or with a feather. Do this several times a day, till nothing else arises to the top. Put what you have skimmed off into the Balneum and let the humidity evaporate. Then an oil will remain, or the QE, which is so wonderful, it is beyond your belief.

    One can do just as well with pure, old urine, as with vinegar. Then there still remains earth in that which stays in the vessel and out of which you have drawn the QE. Put that also into the Balneum. Let the vinegar, or old urine, evaporate, and the earth of the Sun will stay behind. And when the earth has been prepared, bring it back to its QE as it should be. Now you have an elixir and a glorified Corpus and an earthly treasure far greater than can be believed. For that, thank God Almighty.
    Now you know how to draw a dry water from the real rays of the Philosopher's Sun and Moon and stars? This is the Celestial Agriculture, or course our vitriol however is not that of the vulgar!
    Last edited by rogerc; 11-24-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  7. #47
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    NOTE, I REPLIED IN CAPS WITHIN THE QUOTE BELOW AND NOT JUST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerc View Post
    Any reference to naming the stone Bethel because of sparks when struck with iron, any mention of flint? Negative, it was all because of the vision or dream and what God told him about the land, the land being the one proper for our work of course.

    WELL, THAT'S OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. GOD IS OMNIPRESENT. I'VE SEEN JACOB'S LADDER WITHOUT PISSING ON A LIMESTONE. IF YOU'RE ONE TO TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY, I'D SAY YOU'LL MISS A LOT.

    Nothing personal just a report but your statement that the bible names flint specifically as the Bethel stone is not from anywhere in the bible or the link you provided, it is your own statement you are trying to make w/o any support to help lend credence to your biases towards silicates, that much is clear.

    W/O ANY SUPPORT? MOST OF US ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING SIMPLE DEDUCTIONS. YOU ACTUALLY THINK THEY'RE REFERRING TO A DIFFERENT STONE THAN THE KIND JACOB USED? CLAIMING THAT I HAVE A BIAS TOWARDS SILICATES BECAUSE I POST SOME BIBLE REFERENCES ABOUT THE STONE THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT IS YOUR MISTAKE/BIAS. IF I FOUND A BIBLE REFERENCE THAT SAID IT WAS COAL, I WOULD HAVE POSTED THAT. BUT AS IT IS, ALL THE REFERENCES TO THIS STONE DO NOT SAY LIMESTONE, (I'M NOT SAYING IT ISN'T LIMESTONE. i'M SAYING THEY DON'T CALL IT LIMESTONE) AND THREE THAT I KNOW OF SAY FLINT. THAT'S MY OBJECTIVE REPORT IN RELATION TO STONES OR ROCKS BEING STRUCK BY A STAFF OR ROD. AND IF YOU READ THE BIBLE THERE IS SUPPORT, A VERY CLEAR LINEAGE TO WHOM RODS WERE GIVEN.

    Sure seems like it, we have this saying where I am from..." if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck".

    AND IF IT MAKES PROJECTIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS LIKE A BIASED DEFENSIVE ASS INSTEAD OF SAYING "INTERESTING" LIKE AN OBJECTIVE SCIENTIST...

    Then why mention it here? Or are you just getting even with me for talking about limestone in a thread about silicates? If so then touche!

    A THREAD? SEVERAL THREADS.

    I hope that soon you can write a very detailed thread on this forum on the use of or path of silicates to create the water that nothing in our art can be done without, backed up by pages and pages of classical works, coupled with your own experiments, I very much look foward to reading it and following it.
    I HAVE WRITTEN ENOUGH FOR THOSE WHO ARE INSPIRED. MY INSPIRATION LIES ELSEWHERE FOR NOW. I DONT REQUIRE ANY MINERAL FOR SAID WATER. SILICATES DON'T INTEREST ME. MY ARMCHAIR, HOWEVER, IS FULL OF WATER.
    IN FACT, YOU'VE WRITTEN ENOUGH FOR THE BOTH OF US. JUST SUBSTITUTE SAND, FLINT OR QUARTZ FUSED WITH POTASSIUM CARBONATE FOR THE LIMESTONE. PISS ON IT, EXPOSE IT TO THE EVENING AIR, IT BEHAVES THE SAME AS LIMESTONE. I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU 'DETAIL' WHY IT WOULD NOT (BEHAVE THE SAME).
    OH, OF COURSE YOU DIDN'T CHARGE ME TO PRODUCE PHOTOS - THAT WOULD BE HYPOCRITICAL SINCE YOU HAVE NEVER POSTED A PHOTO OF YOUR OWN LAB WORK, EVER.
    TOUCHE
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  8. #48
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    This may help the subject extracted from HYLE UND COAHYLE R.A.M.S collection.

    Pour in sharp, calcined, fiery Sal Tartari and good purified nitrum and ˝ lb. all pulverized. Beforehand, these two salts are to be placed on a grinding stone and are to be ground together with a little rainwater. In so doing, you will learn from where the secret of philosophy derives. For by igniting these two magnetic fires, the true mineral and metallic fire spirit, or Anima Mundi, is magnetically drawn into them out of the air. Without it, there cannot be any truth in the whole of philosophy, except in the purified nitrum which carries the secret fires in its belly - which the old ones never discovered. All this is put into a vial left open on top, else the inner fire would break the glass into many pieces. And thus it is purified in the air until it begins to ferment and obtains a “Gest” (probably “Geist or spirit”) that rises above itself, which shows that the corpus has been opened.
    Last edited by abdo; 11-25-2011 at 10:58 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdo View Post
    This may help the subject extracted from HYLE UND COAHYLE R.A.M.S collection.
    Pour in sharp, calcined, fiery Sal Tartari and good purified nitrum and ˝ lb. all pulverized. Beforehand, these two salts are to be placed on a grinding stone and are to be ground together with a little rainwater. In so doing, you will learn from where the secret of philosophy derives. For by igniting these two magnetic fires, the true mineral and metallic fire spirit, or Anima Mundi, is magnetically drawn into them out of the air. Without it, there cannot be any truth in the whole of philosophy, except in the purified nitrum which carries the secret fires in its belly - which the old ones never discovered. All this is put into a vial left open on top, else the inner fire would break the glass into many pieces. And thus it is purified in the air until it begins to ferment and obtains a “Gest” (probably “Geist or spirit”) that rises above itself, which shows that the corpus has been opened.
    Hi abbo is very interesting where you extracted it ? and what is the exact reference bibliographic of this indications that you have attach here?
    (we can see about this a one similar indication in one chapter of Das zweyte Silentium-Arcana Divin in this capter e must use the sal of tartari and put it by fire in evaporation for attract ( that as the manuscript of the goldem R C say) seem what in time very RAPID and in liquid form in rapid form liquid anima mundi all put in a one strange apparatus called (in this chapter of silentium dei ) the machine of paradiso this very strange apparatus that we must made all this are in the Das zweyte Silentium-Arcana Divina is one in chapther etitled machine of the paradise .
    (NB about these strange apparatus through them we can collect the pure spiritus mundi there are also one strange description of these in a one commetary ( in latin ) of the Novum Lumen Chimicum of Sendivogius by ORTHELIUS give a some indication to made a strange apparatus made by metallic an marmore stone apparatus called by Oethelius in his commentary MARMOR SPONGIA and also this strange apparatus (made by metallic an marmore stone) are use for attract and coagulation (that as the text say) seem what in time very RAPID and in liquid form in one night the pure spiritus mundi.
    (and these strange apparatus in IMO are very interesting by study for the collect rapid ( as these manuscript and text say) the spiritus mundi in liquid form -who want it i can send it by pm-)

    Moreover always talking about your result in the collection in the past with ditterent system by HYLE UND COAHYLE of the collection of solar salt you writing in your post N 26 of one week ago in this thread:

    QUOTE: Actually I have collected salt, long time ago,by spreeading a white sheet cover inside room trying to replace this mirror.

    you can go into deep that what you mean by what ? QUOTE: by spreading a white sheet cover inside room trying to replace this mirror?

    (sorry all for my bad english)

    My best regards alfr
    Last edited by alfr; 11-27-2011 at 10:53 PM.

  10. #50
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    (abdo) Message
    Now I am planning to collect the air-salt using mirror described in the recipe but I may need help here by getting an idea of the proper shape of this mirror. Actually I have collected salt, long time ago, by spreading a white sheet cover inside room trying to replace this mirror.

    Could you clarify this process and any documentation on this process. I believe in the 8th grade of the R+C of Beyer mentions house dust collected which the sun shines on.
    The mirrors and lens are in original copies of the Arcana Divina and S.Dei.
    John Dee also speaks about house dust in old houses. Must check the reference?
    Last edited by garvolt2002; 11-27-2011 at 12:21 PM.

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