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Thread: Anyone interested in John Dee and his work?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    nope, i wish...it's menton matthews, artist and musician. he was part of the band sunday munich, and now he perform under name saltillo. i'm not so big fun of his music as i am when his art is about
    here you have more interesting art whith alchemy motives http://www.menton3.com/gallery.php?c...al&lst=1&pgn=0
    Yes, rather interesting portfolio. Thanks Brother.

  2. #32
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    brother?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    brother?
    Intended as a 'figure of speech'. My attempt at North Americanizing my writing keeps failing.

  4. #34
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    "Brother in The Art" could potentially be translated to many languages.
    Still Searching.............

  5. #35
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    Perhaps Ouroboros is saying she is a sister. ??
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  6. #36
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    here man greets man with "brother" and very rarely if they want to use similar phrase to a woman they would say sister.
    greeting brothers

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    Perhaps Ouroboros is saying she is a sister. ??
    Yes, I think so. Nibiru as always gives a helping hand. But I dug myself too deep with my comment. No one can save me this time!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Getting back to Alchemy I remember reading somewhere that the angels told Dee where some philosophers stone had been hidden, Dee and Kelly dug it up but if they actualy used it to project is not something I have read.
    Well, when Dee and Kelly we abroad in Europe in the mid 1580's, (Dee had become somewhat paranoid that Francis Walsingham was going to come and arrest him for Necromancy, though nothing in any record or diary of Walsingham would indicate this. Elizabeth seemed to trust his loyalty. Many have theorized that Dee was actually abroad spying in Europe under the pretence that he had fled his home in Mortlake for fear of arrest. It does make a modecum of sense, considering that as an Elizabeth-supporting expatriot of Protestant England, he wouldn't have been so readily accepted in Rome or Spain, and where better could he spy on the machinations of England's biggest enemy at the time, devoutly Catholic Spain, than in Prague, in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor.) While Dee was in Prague, Kelly had travelled, (I believe,) to Trebona on the order of Rudolph II to transmute gold.

    Kelly's correspondences to Dee indicate that he'd been locked up for failing to produce gold, and then released for producing at least a small amount, and then locked back up again for failing to produce more.

    Dee later recieved word that Kelly had died of complications to injuries he recieved while trying to escape imprisonment, (he broke at least one of his legs when he fell out of the window of a tower.)

    But Dee's diaries do indicate that Kelly had corresponded with him with news of perfecting a technique with the Philosopher's Stone, and that he was very proud of his friend at the time.

  9. #39
    The problem for me with Kelly is that he was clearly a scoundrel. He had his ears cut off for being a forger. When someone loses the outer ear 30-70% hearing loss occurs. This would have inproved Kelly's psychic ability because he would have been able to 'hear' in a different way more readily due to less auditory distraction. So I think he made a good scryer for Dee, he was still a scoundrel though and I do not think he achieved the stone. It is more likely I think he got caught in a scam and tried to escape but fell causing ultimately fatal injury.

  10. #40
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    I have many problems with Kelly. I think in many ways he was a fraud and a charlatan...But on the other hand, I cannot believe that Dee was a willing conspirator in perpetrating a "Fraud."

    I have read much on Dee's life, and have read the bulk of his surviving writings. While there may be a few intentional misdirections, and perhaps some unintentional errors of memory, I believe that Dee was sincere his portrayal and his documentation of everything that he wrote.

    I ALSO cannot believe that Kelly, scoundrel and criminal that he was, was capable, (as some have postulated,) of fabricating everything that he scryed for Dee, and completely duping him into believing they had made contact with otherworldly intelligences.

    Even if one doesn't believe the somewhat qustionable theories that Dee was a spy for Elizabeth I, or that he was the original 007, (or as Vincent Bridges has postulated was the man who initiated a young, otherwise uneducated, scribe named William Shakespeare into the Hermetic knowledge that appears throughout his plays,) or anything else about the Angelic Workings, no one can deny that Dee was shrewd and brilliant man.

    That much is fact.

    The idea that Kelly, who had a reputation for dishonesty, (which means that he wasn't a GOOD liar, forger, or thief,) could so completely dupe arguably the most brilliant mind in Britain, (and certainly ONE of the most brilliant in Europe,) at the time is really reaching. ESPECIALLY as the codes, ciphers, and cryptographic tables of letters and numbers were far beyond Kelly's means of conception, let alone rote memorization to later recite word-for-word, letter-by-letter, often in reverse order.

    I don't care how much Dee WANTED to believe it. As long and as intimately as they worked together, (wife-swapping aside,) that is too much of a charade for anyone to concievably maintain that long.

    I believe that Kelly may have STARTED with the intent to dupe Dee and milk him for money, reputability by association, and perhaps secrets that he thought Dee possessed for producing the Stone, but the entities that Kelly made contact with decided to actually set him to task, (and, in the diaries, the Archangel Michael, the Angel Av, the Angel Nalvage, and the Granddaughter of Light, Madimi often rebuke Kelly for lying and accuse him of necromancy. They punish him, call him stupid, and often utterly ignore him as nothing more than sensory organs so they can communicate with Dee. Kelly resented this, and feared it. I don't think that was an act. I think that was genuine.)

    What I don't know is if the intelligences they contacted were what they claimed to be. So much of their appearance, their prophecy, their stated intent, and their...For want of a better term, I'll fall back on the Commedia Della Arte term: "Lazzi", reminds me greatly of the reports of extraterrestrial contact in the 60's-80's particularly. The "Important Messages" The coded information, the "Revelationesque" prophecy. Perhaps this is part of the same phenomenon, or perhaps even that same phenomenon is all part of some Jungian need rising from the collective unconscious...

    I don't know. I've read a good amount on so-called "Enochian Magick," but haven't made any attempt at it, (that is the plan, however. But I plan on remaining a bit more true to the system conveyed to Dee, rather than the modern interpretations of it by the Golden Dawn, Crowley, and LaVey.) I might change my tune if and when I make that attempt.

    So, yeah. Veering back onto actual ALCHEMY now.

    All that stated above, I agree that Kelly WAS a scoundrel. Was interested in Alchemy solely for monetary gain, and was consequently no alchemist at all. In fact, I have to side with the "Angels" on this and say that beyond the work Kelly did with Dee, he's pretty much a non-entity, so anything and everything he claimed is suspect.

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