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Thread: Out-of-body experience

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    All this advice about chakras and yet no practical pointers (as usual). No reference texts or well known organisations that are considered reputable just hey get your chakras sorted guy. My hermetic work has been more with Kabbalah and I haven't done stuff with chakras so I cannot provide suitable references or recommend any organisations.
    But I had practical pointers in my post № 84 (Satyananda Sarasvati)...

    Crowley has bad books. His LBRP and Middle Pillar have potential to block one from progress and/or provide some very illusionary results. He had little knowledge of whatever he was writing about.

    And I have a very strong prejudice toward Enochian system. It all seems to be just a trick played by Kelly to constantly extort money from Dee and even to have sex with his wife... I am afraid to say, but working with Enochian beings might be safe, because they simply don't exist, and it is just a game with your mind...

    I am not writing all this to anger you or something. I simply want to say that unless someone has done some real work on purifying and empowering himself, his mind will play whatever kinds of tricks it wants on him. And there is such a feature of human: he doesn't like to admit failures - just like in case with Enochian beings - it is hard to admit failure in your magical operation, so mind comes to "help" to make illusion of success.

  2. #92
    Warmheart Specific to Bardon which I challenged you on your comments in posts are vague and provide no specific practical info to underpin theory which was also vague. Also I note you still haven't provided reference material for those that may be inclined to clean their chakras.

    You fear Crowley, think Golden Dawn practice will block progress but say it is from Crowley ( it is not), fear delusion and phantasm is the basis of Enochian material. In fairness to you Warmheart there are whole occult orders who ban Enochian and consider it will cause people to go insane, in which case I must be one of those people because I have done decades of Enochian work.

    Your have a view that the vast corpus of Western occultism is blockage, bad and illusory, as you say in your post prejudice.

    Unless you actually provide a clear PRACTICAL and more concise THEORETICAL outline for your arguement that there are blinds in steps3-4 of Bardon's material I think perhaps we should simply agree to disagree.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Your have a view that the vast corpus of Western occultism is blockage, bad and illusory, as you say in your post prejudice.

    Unless you actually provide a clear PRACTICAL and more concise THEORETICAL outline for your arguement that there are blinds in steps3-4 of Bardon's material I think perhaps we should simply agree to disagree.
    I worked with Western occultism for long time, until I got access to some of Eastern Occult knowledge (and, I need to say, to workings of some local wise me). Whatever little bits I have found worth more than I saw in Western occultism for however many years I spent with it.

    I already advised a very good author to make a good go with Bardon system in my previous post and post 84... What concerns the work of Bardon's group, this information was gained on basis of trust, perhaps I shouldn't have said it from very start. It isn't like I am trying to hide my tail, but please try to understand, noone will be giving away names/dates/praxis of closed orders unless they have such a permission.

    I might give hinters to ritual work, which was in those circles. They all worked basically with specific variations of Key of Solomon (non-Mathers ed.), Abramelin (non-Mathers ed.) and other such books and grimoires, which they somewhat altered for their own work. Delving in those books without good initial practice might result in provocation of mind to start its games. It is also one of the reasons why Bardon avoided any kind of indoctrination in his books.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    I worked with Western occultism for long time, until I got access to some of Eastern Occult knowledge (and, I need to say, to workings of some local wise me). Whatever little bits I have found worth more than I saw in Western occultism for however many years I spent with it.

    I already advised a very good author to make a good go with Bardon system in my previous post and post 84... What concerns the work of Bardon's group, this information was gained on basis of trust, perhaps I shouldn't have said it from very start. It isn't like I am trying to hide my tail, but please try to understand, noone will be giving away names/dates/praxis of closed orders unless they have such a permission.

    I might give hinters to ritual work, which was in those circles. They all worked basically with specific variations of Key of Solomon (non-Mathers ed.), Abramelin (non-Mathers ed.) and other such books and grimoires, which they somewhat altered for their own work. Delving in those books without good initial practice might result in provocation of mind to start its games. It is also one of the reasons why Bardon avoided any kind of indoctrination in his books.
    I note you did give a reference for chakra cleaning in post 84 my mistake.

    So here we are again as so many bunko artists in the past have done, I'm not saying you are definitely such but you exhibit the standard behaviours........There are bits missing, I can't tell you these secrets. Occult secrets revealed by Crowley and Regardie were why they were vilified and attacked by the Golden Dawn. Regardie wrote he called have wallpapered his whole house with the curses mailed to him by GD members. True Crowley was it would seem also a bit of a Libertine and this was not polite behaviour in those days.

    So when Bardon writes repeatedly in his works that they are full description of those occult skills and developments he was lying right? I men he was in all these occult groups so he would know right? Also I and my colleagues are deluding ourselves but you can't reveal the truth and secrets you hold right? Same old con artist tune.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    So when Bardon writes repeatedly in his works that they are full description of those occult skills and developments he was lying right? I men he was in all these occult groups so he would know right? Also I and my colleagues are deluding ourselves but you can't reveal the truth and secrets you hold right? Same old con artist tune.
    Noone will tell you the real truth, and not in the books or Internet, such is the nature of man. Surely his practices are good, but without doing additional things on the side, results will be quite weak if any. Also need to keep in mind, that Bardon himself wasn't definition of perfect and all-knowledgable occultist, he also had his weaknesses. I am not sure what will the practice by those circles give you, if you can refer to all the same books I listed?

    Every mage/witch/occultist/alchemist should possess, among the other abilities, ability to keep silence. Ability to keep secrets. I know lots of secrets of various cults, lodges, solitary practitioners and such exactly because I can keep secrets.

    Now all the books/authors that I listed will be enough for anyone to know what to do and where to look.

    You might call me con artist, but you can always visit me and see me for what I am. I am simply a man devoted wholly to truth, love and knowledge.

  6. #96
    It's not that I might call you a con-artist I feel there may be little choice here. Secrecy is not relevant when something is already openly published, secrecy would be to say nothing about something that is actually a secret. You keep secrets by not mentioning them rather than identifying that you have a secret but cannot say, that is the act of a confidence trickster or narcissist I'm not sure which you are, often a person is both which is why the bunko artist can never give up it is too much a part of them. Bardon wrote his work was complete so now you have no choice but to start denigrating him, this is part of the compulsion of the con-artist which is why I strongly suspect you are such. Confidence tricksters seek to inflict misery on their rubes because they are in a state of suffering themselves, this is part of the behaviour. Perhaps one day we may meet then I will know for sure.

    Bearing in mind the number of times over literally decades since Bardon's material has been published:

    1. Numerous groups and organisations have adapted his methodologies but asserted they are original arcane secrets specific to that tradition not initially found elsewhere.

    2. Various fee charging organisations have offered Bardon training with the assertion it will lead into other things Bardon did not cover and these organisations have been discredited with much financial loss and psychological upset of students who enrolled.

    3. Bardon specifically states repeatedly that his works are for a solo person who has to work for a living in the absence of a genuine mystery school.

    How can I avoid the reasonable assumption that any who assert secrets but cannot reveal are just part of the latest tranche of bunko artists seeking to gain money and feed narcissism off the back of the unparalleled occult instruction provided by the late Franz Bardon?

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Bardon wrote his work was complete so now you have no choice but to start denigrating him, this is part of the compulsion of the con-artist which is why I strongly suspect you are such.
    In no way I am denigrating him. And I can show you a very cool examples of why his works aren't exactly that complete almost by his own works:
    1. In his 2nd book (on evocations) he started openly stating that, sorry, but such and such info won't be given. He did that openly for Air Spirits and for Saturnian Spirits.
    2. It is not really a secret that some of Spirits in his book have coded names. He wrote nothing about the code (which if you apply, you will get much more familiar Star names).
    3. In his 2nd book he only gives a very general pointings on preparation of tools.

    His 1st book could be greatly assisted by various additional methods, which, I'm afraid, could be used for practicing very malicious kinds of Magic. Without all those methods, practitioner has to rely purely on his own imagination, and it never ends well.

    And to clarify, noone will ever put down a full and precise instructions. Some things will always be omitted. Now, I want to see a man, who worked solely with Bardon's books, and achieved full success with his first 2 books.

    There is also one thing Bardon doesn't mention, though he seems to be very familiar with Abramelin books, - necessity of hermitship, at least temporary. If one has to work for the living, and especially in the absence of good teacher nearby, chances are extremely low that he will have success in his practices. I am not saying it is impossible, but chances are almost none.

    Especially good example: if you will start seriously doing Yoga practices, you will notice that any interaction with human society heavily deafens your senses. You might get a cool experience after some practices, and then you yourself will realize that you are back at stage 1 because your results are outdone by your deep involvement with mundane things.

    Stories that you can achieve a lot by imagining things for 10-15 minutes a day are fake. Hard labor stands behind real results. Good teacher can help you to save at least 40-50 years of your life, but they are very rare, and understand me right, no way I am putting myself in position of some teacher, but I myself passed through too many pits where I could use a shortcut.

  8. #98
    A classic con-artist ploy is to try and turn he tables on the critic........prove it!!!!! In the occult and magic empirical proof is most difficult which is why it provides fertile ground for the bunko artist. I have already pointed out that I and several others have surpassed the early steps you maliciously identify have blinds Warmheart. It is true that an initiated individual can facilitate progress but I'm pretty certain you are not one nor have any contact with such. Often people have to learn the hard way so if others are drawn in by you then that is a learning experience for them and they should not condem themselves as long as it doesn't become a habit.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-18-2017 at 01:31 PM.

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    A classic con-artist ploy is to try and turn he tables on the critic........prove it!!!!! In the occult and magic empirical proof is most difficult which is why it provides fertile ground for the bunko artist. I have already pointed out that I and several others have surpassed the early steps makiciously identify have blinds Warmheart. It is true that an initiated individual can facilitate progress but I'm pretty certain you are not one nor have any contact with such. Often people have to learn the hard way so if others are drawn in by you then that is a learning experience for them and they should not condem themselves as long as it doesn't become a habit.
    I don't position myself as a knowledgeable man. I know a little, almost nothing, and I am always open to learning new things. I am also not the man to pray to a single book or to a single authority and ignore everything else, even common sense. I am not sure why I got such your reaction, I merely described various points and tried to clarify some obscurity.

    I could point you at the things where you are mistaken, as a proof, but it could upset you, so I decide not to give any further proofs. That probably makes me different from people who try to push their own vision of world, occult and such. I am not pushing anything and I don't feel like trying to prove anything. Especially if to consider that I payed a very dear price for what little knowledge I have, I feel it is better if people will learn from their own mistakes until their pride will dissipate.

    Yet again, I am not hiding from direct contact, you can always visit me and see me in person.

  10. #100
    You have provided no 'proofs' of anything and have also clearly showed narrow bias by identifying much of western occultism as deluded, and bad compared to what you say you have but cannot divulge (of course). You do not present any of the characteristics I would expect from a genuine adept or even practitioner of western occultism and the few genuine eastern adepts I have encountered would not have even entered into this exchange in the first place.

    I leave it to Divine Providence as to whether or not we eventually meet.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-18-2017 at 02:43 PM.

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