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Thread: Out-of-body experience

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Well, lets forget lucid dreaming for a moment. WHAT is the dream world? is it the Astral plane? Or is it something else?
    Man's dreams are definitely not the Astral Plane, they are the subjective inner world.

    I'll point the main difference. If you see some person in your dream, he will be doing different things from what he does in reality. But if you see him during your Astral travel, he will be doing exactly what he is doing in reality.

    And of course Astral travels are much more realistic than dreams. I'd say even more, they are much more vivid than physical reality. Because that's exactly where you will find yourself right after death of physical body.

  2. #72
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    Thankyou for your input Warmheart! After further consideration that I had today on the subject I came up with the same answer.

    The "inner" world that I visit when I maintain awareness into sleep, is blurry, hard to maintain cognisance sometimes, not exceptionally vivid. Now if I compare this to my one and only spontaneous OBE experience, which I can only assume was the astral plane, either that or I teleport-ed thousands of kilometres on the earth plane? Mental projection? not sure, however, all i know is that the experience was EXTREMELY vivid, yes, more vivid than real life.

    Hell, every decision i've made ever since was in some way or another effected by that experience, was how vivid it was....

    So yes, I agree, dream world is not astral world, at least, not necessarily. I have had lucid dreams, where I travelled "up?" in frequency and dimension, after a few successive "climbs" I entered a place that I believe was CERTAINLY the astral plane, all of a sudden things were EXTREMELY vivid, and I was having a strange chat with a young asian man, who told me that I had entered a place of collective consciousness and that it was a real place and I wasn't dreaming anymore. I think I accidentally destroyed that place, or someone else did, anyway, we were forced to evacuate as the place was heavily bombed. I wasn't sure if I had accidentally done that with my mind or whether or not there were external forces at play, either way, that place was of an equal vividly as my spontaneous OBE experience.

    This is a fantastic subject, and I can't wait to escape this fleshy prison, thanks again for your contributions. I hope we can have more chats, do you have experience projecting?

    Do you have any ritualistic magic experience?

    EM
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  3. #73
    A super safe beginners technique for beginners Evocation hmmmm...... bit like a super safe beginners technique for jumping out of a plane without any training. In the occult countless people try this and add themselves to the gradually spreading mush at the landing X.

    Many people (including myself) as beginners initially turn away from a rigourous training like Bardon gives and do much easier stuff. For example in my case I did some chaos magic Sigil stuff which worked, then mental projection through elemental doorways (tattwas) and tarot trumps as doorways pegged to the tree of life, Enochian Aethyr on a Sunday night teaching kids math on Monday morning. The teacher nickname the kids gave me was 'Vigo' from the ghostbusters cartoon specifically, the red eyes and mullet the energy spilling out of me, not pleasant for me or those forced to be around me. All this stuff and more was often big fun for me but I would have progressed better if I had just stuck with the Bardon. It would have been kinder to those around me also, I'm not entirely sure that a school full of boys likening me to the 'evilist magician in the world' is a good thing even though my occult work was secret, children are so perceptive. A more kudos nickname than those ascribed to my colleagues (e.g. Rat, pussy, swallow don't spit), but is that saying much?

    So Elixirmixer you could choose to do as I say not as I did, alternatively instead there is a distinct possibility that as far as those around you perceive you gradually transform into an utter cunt. The choice is yours.

    There are various books and online resources about the astral plane and they are less confusing and contradictory than Alchemy texts so I politely refer you to these for the bulk of your questions Elixirmixer.

    A film you may enjoy about a beginner and a hired magician doing Evocation:

    https://youtu.be/qCdDw0fwBZw

    It's out in September on DVD.

  4. #74
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    HAHA Vigo! I hated that guy! EDIT: (oh wait I was thinking of his dickhead little goon from the films) Vigo was that scary warlord sorcerer that was bringing all the pink sludge in. Man that pink sludge had me scared of the bath for weeks when I saw that as a kid! (safe to say now, I NEVER watch horror films)

    I'm not sure if this is too personal a question, but what is the best result you have personally had in your life as a result of magic? Have there been any actual physical changes to your body, finances or relationships because of evocational magic?

    My intention is basically to master the basics (Bardons first book) then do a quick run through of the exercises in "The practise of evocational magic" but my main goal for all of this training is just so that I can have a strong foundation to Learn the (practical form of) Kabbalah.

    May I ask, WHY did you learn magic? WHAT does it do for you? My understanding is that if you use it for your own benefit/profit, that karma comes and bites you three fold. Is this just a wives tale? Am I 'allowed' to use magic to boost my bottom line?

    Magic certainly doesnt come as naturally to me as setting up crazy labs and making shitloads of mistakes does, but I think I have some natural gift for it, since my first OBE was completely unexpected and untrained for (and extremely intense)

    Is there any hope of shooting lightning bolts out of my wand. Seriously? No, I mean it, its a serious question, can you, for instance, actually gain any level of manipulation of matter in the physical realm using these forms of practise?

    Edit: This may seem like of the topic, however, the reason I am learning how to astral project and talking about magic is because true magic is performed in the astral realm. That's why people of todays society think that magic is for fairytales, its because they also do not believe in the astral realm, and as a result, cannot at all see that the two go hand in hand, the astral realm responds heavily to emotionally driven thought-force (magic)
    Last edited by elixirmixer; 08-17-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    This is a fantastic subject, and I can't wait to escape this fleshy prison, thanks again for your contributions. I hope we can have more chats, do you have experience projecting?
    I don't have that much experience with Astral traveling, always too much obstacles. But recently I started exploring and practicing Eastern Occult systems, and I must say, Western system is highly inefficient and misses a lot of key points (best example - proper work with Chakras, Breath, purifications, Astrology system, etc.).
    Do you have any ritualistic magic experience?
    Yes, relatively extensive one. Evocations are difficult and dangerous practice, I would advice starting from more basic things. While Bardon's book isn't sufficient on its own, it gives a good outline of initial practices.

    I would say: energy practice -> purifying and empowering Chakras -> understanding the Supreme Forces behind this world -> very careful invoking and feeling Their power and understanding how to construct Magic Defense, how to cure yourself from various illnesses and how you can influence various events and people -> only then you can somewhat safely do an Evocation. You need to get a special link with the main Supreme Force of this world, it is to be acquired via initial practice. Without that link you will be open and defenseless to all kinds of criminal Spirits from Dark Astral layers.

  6. #76
    @Warmheart I disagree, in my view Bardon provides exactly what he described, practical outlines of the first three leaves of the book of Thoth. This is my personal opinion, people may read the material and judge for themselves.

    @Elixirmixer I'm not interested in telling you a huge amount about myself, motivations etc they will differ to yours. To answer the specific question yes magic has given me financial freedom. I am not on welfare but do not work, I am below pension age. Sometimes, once every few years for a change. I go and get a job for a few months but the 'wage cuck' mentality of those around me eventually persuades me to hand in notice. I wasn't born in a wealthy family and I'm not incredibly rich, I own my modest home and car and live within modest means. In occult terms I have achieved this without making any kind of pact. This freedom allows me and my wife to pursue Hermetic work, Alchemy Magic and Mysticism. I am not 'lucky' I struggled and sometimes had to fight (occult conflict) to reach this point of being able to more fully pursue the Great Work.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-17-2017 at 03:04 PM. Reason: iPad predictive

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    @Warmheart I disagree, in my view Bardon provides exactly what he described, practical outlines of the first three leaves of the book of Thoth. This is my personal opinion, people may read the material and judge for themselves.
    I don't think we actually disagree with each other. Bardon really outlined a lot of things, and his 2nd book contains some very valuable information. But his books aren't sufficient on their own. Bardon was a member of some closed order, I had a glimpse of his real practice which is by no means is disclosed in his books. It is like he was putting only 50% of all the stuff he actually worked with.

  8. #78
    Whilst Bardon does omit some things they are only needed later on and he correctly observed that by that point the person can obtain the required information by occult means for themselves from for example genii of the zone girdling the earth. I don't think anything extra is needed for his first work; Initiation into a Hermetics.

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Whilst Bardon does omit some things they are only needed later on and he correctly observed that by that point the person can obtain the required information by occult means for themselves from for example genii of the zone girdling the earth. I don't think anything extra is needed for his first work; Initiation into a Hermetics.
    All people I know who worked with Bardon were stuck on Step III/IV. If you look at those steps, you will have no questions why. Perhaps Bardon was bound by oath of silence, but he actually leaves the readers in obscurity on those Steps.

    What you say about Genii of the Zone girdling the Earth - it is vicious circle. Surely those Spirits can teach you a lot, including what is missing in first book and in first half of second book. But to contact them properly, you need to know those things which are missing.

    And I must say, it is probably good that Bardon did so. Imagine all the troubles the people would get by trying to contact those Spirits and becoming victims of all kinds of temptations. For those, who knows what is missing in his books, however, his books are very valuable.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    All people I know who worked with Bardon were stuck on Step III/IV. If you look at those steps, you will have no questions why. Perhaps Bardon was bound by oath of silence, but he actually leaves the readers in obscurity on those Steps.

    What you say about Genii of the Zone girdling the Earth - it is vicious circle. Surely those Spirits can teach you a lot, including what is missing in first book and in first half of second book. But to contact them properly, you need to know those things which are missing.

    And I must say, it is probably good that Bardon did so. Imagine all the troubles the people would get by trying to contact those Spirits and becoming victims of all kinds of temptations. For those, who knows what is missing in his books, however, his books are very valuable.
    This is utter nonsense I and several others I know have surpassed these early steps years ago. Time and again over literally decades people have come forward pretending they have advancements on Bardon's stuff when they have nothing and pretend. I mean here you are Warmheart and I'm sure these things you claim you could not possibly reveal, right? This is because you are just another chancer alluding to secrets you simply lack. This forum seems to be getting a lot of that lately. I challenge you to clearly and practically explain these alleged missing pieces and I'm certain that at best you will just give philosophising guff. The number of groups who use Bardon's methods but do not officially recognise such or in your instance pretend there are pieces missing and always in the end have nothing substantive. The one thing that helps empty boasters is that many early students experience difficulty with the first few steps of Bardon's training and this allows chancers to try and capitalise on the hapless students difficulties.

    Bardon is very clear and I and others have verified his claims by direct practical experience: Initiation into Hermetics is a full solo training program without omissions of anything necessary practical or theoretical. It clearly serves as a solo training program in the absence of a genuine mystery school ( of which sadly there are none currently). There is an amusing regularity to this kind of thing because people are always seeking to hijack Bardon's premier material for self serving use., thus here we go again.

    In Wicca the artificial elemental work was at one time presented as ancient teachings in the book of shadows of course it is straight out of Bardon. Then there is the 'great' Seila Orienta and his laughable 4th and 5th keys or the latest stuff showing Bardon recommended runic stuff preWW2 which whilst interesting changes little. Then the controversy of the Veos twins in London (link for that gone). Yet always the bunko artists will keep going because of the quality of Bardon's writings.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-17-2017 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Couldn't find veos twins link

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