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Thread: Translating Old Languages

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    I think 'wiege' here (imperative) refers to 'weigh', not 'rock'/'cradle'. Also more in line with a laboratory context.

    'reibe sie kleine' - rub them small (until they're small), not 'a little'. Again, the laboratory context.
    ______________________________________

    And yes, a lot of typos - or misreadings of the (old?) letters/alphabet.
    Thank you, Androgynus. My German is alright at best, and rusty at that. I would not have been able to correctly interpret 'reibe sie kleine' myself.

    Wiegen is actually one of the words I do know well, but I was rushing a bit and only giving half attention, so by that point I was looking at the dictionary and didn't even think to remember that it was a word I knew. I feel quite silly now.

    A couple of those typographical errors are suspiciously convenient with respect to generating educational double meanings. I'm sure many of them are genuine, but I would keep an eye out for those that might be designed to slip something by an uneducated eye; presses being typeset by hand at the time and errors being common it was a perfect way to hide something clever.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Here's more context:

    Die Anmerkung lehret, wie man der den liquorem merkurialisch machen soll, da er doch schorr nichts anders ist, als ein merkurialischer Geist, und muss also verfahren werden

    Illen
    If that is schon and not schorr it resolves the issue completely, as Androgynus explained. Those little words, which you see in many languages, are actually not exactly filler but rather emphatic; they reinforce the relevance of an utterance. Because they are redundant by design, you will often hear Germans use them where other languages more impoverished of such adverbs would use expletives that flatly have no meaning ("um" etc.) Thus they sound like meaningless filler to habitual speakers of German when in fact they're far from it. Schon here would serve to indicate the immediateness ("already" as in "here and now" as in "also part of this experience we are having together right now") of the context in a delightfully subliminal way.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel Matina View Post
    If that is schon and not schorr it resolves the issue completely, as Androgynus explained. Those little words, which you see in many languages, are actually not exactly filler but rather emphatic; they reinforce the relevance of an utterance. Because they are redundant by design, you will often hear Germans use them where other languages more impoverished of such adverbs would use expletives that flatly have no meaning ("um" etc.) Thus they sound like meaningless filler to habitual speakers of German when in fact they're far from it. Schon here would serve to indicate the immediateness ("already" as in "here and now" as in "also part of this experience we are having together right now") of the context in a delightfully subliminal way.
    Hi Bel,

    I wish it was easier to include attachments since then I could show you the actual word. Some of the words I had difficulty with, including this very word, actually came from another source, and some of the letters in this source were blurry and smudged (not very good resolution).

    Also, the typeset was different and there was less distinction between certain letters. I took another very good look at it, and now think it might be an "n" with a small smudge on the upper right end making it look like an "r" (thus it looks like rr, which also looks like an "n" with a point to the right - the smudge). Thus I now think the word is indeed "schon" which means "already".

    I know that many writers during that period of time loved playing with words, and "puns" were much more in favor than they are today. Fulcanelli was such an alchemist who loved puns and playing with words.

    Illen

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel Matina View Post
    If that is schon and not schorr it resolves the issue completely, as Androgynus explained. Those little words, which you see in many languages, are actually not exactly filler but rather emphatic; they reinforce the relevance of an utterance. Because they are redundant by design, you will often hear Germans use them where other languages more impoverished of such adverbs would use expletives that flatly have no meaning ("um" etc.) Thus they sound like meaningless filler to habitual speakers of German when in fact they're far from it. Schon here would serve to indicate the immediateness ("already" as in "here and now" as in "also part of this experience we are having together right now") of the context in a delightfully subliminal way.
    Being German I am amazed how deep you comprehend this language (asuming it is foreign to you). Let me add that "schon" is also used as "obschon" which would then mean "although"- giving the overal expression a little added strength (...although it is nothing but...).

    going thru the original list I would have to say that although I am German and have read quite a few old texts I would have to look up/explore about 50% of them. Only half are self-evident to me from the initial reading alone.

    -sam

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    13
    Hi dear Students of the Art!

    I would also like to collaborate as much as possible with the brilliant considerations of Ghislain and Bel Matina.
    Since most of the terms have been explained by our friends mentioned, I will address only those terms that have not been explained or translated, or those that, in my opinion, need some correction.

    In addition, it should be noted that some of the terms may have been collected from partially damaged manuscripts, resulting in incorrect spelling or poor digitization by Google Books.

    - auth: a specialized term, abbreviation, or fragment?

    Probably "auch" which means "also."

    - Berdruss

    Maybe "Verdruss," "vexation," "annoyance," etc. Context and visualization would be needed.

    - bon: I'm suspecting these lower-case nonwords might all be abbreviations.

    Possibly "bin," which means "am." Context and visualization would be needed.

    - Delichten: This is a tricky one. Despite the temptation to say it means delights, that makes no etymological sense whatsoever unless the author himself had some etymological awareness and borrowed it from English for some reason. I don't really have another explanation for it though. As contrived as it is, the author may have done it for wordplay reasons, as Ehelicht (unrelated) is the proper German word meaning delight so most readers would have been able to piece it out.

    Maybe "belichten" which is verb. Context and visualization would be needed.

    - ebrauchen: No idea.

    Probably "erbrauchen" or "verbrauchen," "consume," "dissipate," "evaporate."

    - Erzte: "first" as a noun.

    Possibly archaic form of "Erz," "ore."

    - fechter: Fighter, not capitalized for some reason.

    Depending on the context it may mean "fatty," "oily."

    - geschicht: I'm getting lazy, but this looks like the adjective from which Geschichte, story, is derived.
    Probably incorrect spelling of "geschieht" "happens," "occurs."

    - gesezt: still

    Depending on the context it may mean "put," "set," and "added."

    - Helfte: thing that was helped.

    Probably incorrect spelling of "Hälfte," "half."

    - laest: loest?

    Probably incorrect spelling of "lässt," which depending on the context may mean "can," "lets."

    - Medicin: Probably borrowed from French for "doctor."

    Depending on the context it may mean "medicine" in the sense of "tincture."

    - nachgehends: nach-gehend-s

    It means "afterwards," "following."

    - nehmlich: Can't find it but the stem and suffix are both pretty accessible.

    Archaic form of "nämlich," "that is," "namely," etc.

    - ofte: oft as an adjective?

    It means "frequently," "more than once," "often."

    - Pulder: possibly Polder?

    Archaic form or incorrect spelling of "Pulver," "powder."

    - sieben: Sieb as an adjective?

    Depending on the context it may be an archaic form or incorrect "sieden," "boil," "digest," "cook."

    - angeschossene - shot and wounded, past participle.

    It means "shot" or "crystallized." It is usually associated with processes involving vitriol or manipulation of salts in general.

    - Berfahre - as a verb this means to frequent. Is it used as a noun? In what context?

    Depending on the context it also may mean "experienced," "learned." Context and visualization would be needed.

    - zurücke – this could be a spontaneous adjective, in which case treat it as if the author made it up. It may also be a form of the adverb that preserves the old dative ending (like "zu hause")

    Archaic form or incorrect spelling of "zurück," which depending on the context may mean "back," "again."

    - adermal

    Probably archaic form of "abermals" "once again," "again."

    - cohobando

    Continuous cohobation, "cohobating."

    - elnam

    Context and visualization would be needed. Probably a spelling mistake of "er nahm," "he took."

    - nachgiessest

    It means "pour (something) again," "add more (something)," "after this pour (something)."

    - samle - related to sammel?

    Yes, it is probably the first person of "sammeln," "I gather."

    - schieffen - probably schief, "inclined," context?

    Archaic form or incorrect spelling of "schießen," which depending on the context means "(to) shoot" "(to) crystallize."

    - seben

    Archaic form or incorrect spelling of "sieben" "seven" or "sieden," "(to) boil."

    - wiezetzwen

    Archaic form or incorrect spelling of "widersetzen," which depending on the context means "to precipitate," "set at the bottom," etc.

    - ziven

    It could be archaic form or incorrect spelling of "zwey," "zehn" and "sieben," "two," "ten" and "seven."

    - ...so werden Christallen schiessen, welche Zucker süsse sind, mache solche trocken, samle sie bis keine mehr anschiessen, und trockne alle zusammen, dieses ist eine der grösten Medicin auf den menschlichen Görper...

    "… then crystals will shoot, which are sweet like sugar. Let them dry. And keep gathering these crystals till the liquor will yield no more crystals. After that let them dry together. This is one of the greatest medicines for human body…"

    - ...so denn in ziven Wochen, und zulezt in acht Tagen, dass du aber allezeit ein halb Loth von seinem Oehl nachgiessest, wenn es nun 7 mal imbibiret...

    Apparently it is a sentence extracted from Coelum Reseratum Chymicum. The sentence means: "… then in two weeks, and finally in eight days, so that you always keep adding half a lot of its oil. When it is imbibed 7 times…"

    - ... eine Minera Solaris ziven Pfund stosse solche kleine...

    It means: "two/seve/ten pounds of solar/gold ore. Let it be finely pulverized…"

    - Dieses zeiget adermal diese Arbeit an, und braucht man nicht...

    It means: "This is related to this work, and you need not…"

    - ...sondern naturgemäss und einfältig solches in vier Theile theile, den 1. Theil cohobando mit einander überdestillire

    It means: "… but you divide it naturally and uniformly into four parts, the first part of which you distill with each other cohobating it…"

    - ... so würdest du es wohl gefunden haben; denn was nicht an elnem Orte steht, steht am andern, wie du ferner seben wirst.

    It means: "Then you will have found it, for that which is not in a place, this is found in another, as you will see further…"

    In this case "elnem" is incorrect spelling of "einem," "a," "one." While "seben" is incorrect spelling of "sehen," "see."

    - ... da er doch schorr nichts anders ist...

    Although a longer context and visualization would be needed, this sentence may very well mean "for he/it is nothing more…"

    - Nimm deine Animam und Salz, reibe sie kleine und wiege solche, wenn sie wiegetzwen Loth

    It means: "Take your soul and salt. Let them be pulverized and weight them. When they weight two lots…"

    - ...als eben in dieser Arbeit, indene es alle Farben annimmt wie ein Chameleon...

    It means: "just as in this work, in fact it assumes all colors like a chameleon…"

    Hope this helps.

    All the best,
    V.V.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    937
    Awesome! Thank you for this, VV.

    Your contributions to this Art are admirable!

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