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Thread: Is psychedelics a valid path?

  1. #171
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    Is psychedelics a valid path?

    Psychedelics are used in lots of different ways : valid ones and not valid ones.
    A valid path is a path which bring you in the "right place".

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysa Lead View Post
    Psychedelics are used in lots of different ways : valid ones and not valid ones.
    That is an excellent point. Intention is everything. As a youngster I was always against authority (still am to a degree), and this led me to also be anti-tradition, ritual and ceremony. Psychedelic practices made me re-evaluate these things. When it concerns MAGIC rituals and tradition and ceremony are very powerful tool and must not be underestimated. In fact it can be the diffrence between total enlightenment or complete chaos.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    After your comment I watched the TV show you mentioned. Are you serious? That is your source? You cling to what THAT TV show states as your scientific position on ayahuasca (the ayahuasca they drink didn’t even look real).

    If this is the kind of foundation you have behind your ”facts” then all your facts are fucked.

    “His stance...”. The only stance I would value from Hamilton is what Emo band is hot right now.

    Apparently you missed the point that the guy works with actual chemists in actual labs. He also actually bothers to go to the places where these drugs originated, talks to the old-fashioned practitioners that are still around, and even engages in their "rituals" (he is in fact an ordained "Shaman", title given to him by one of these fellows in Peru, after he went through all the "initiation" rituals of the San Pedro cactus.) So, yes, in fact Hamilton is a reliable source on the subject. All of that doesn't stop him from seeing the obvious uncorroborated nature of all these traditional claims attached to such drugs. He respects these claims as "cultural" features attached to the use of these plants/animals, but that's just about where it should stop. We should not uncritically accept them as if they were "facts".

  4. #174
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    First of all I know personally, and some I simply are aware of, 100% dedicated phd level scientists that are conducting proper research... not stumbling around in the Amazon like some lost rave kid with a chemistry set (phd or not).

    Secondly I have probably spent more time with old-fashioned practitioners that are still around than Mr. Hamilton, and engaged in their rituals (not only in Peru but also Ecuador and Gabon... as well as in New Mexico... however I don't count that because it was too brief). You might not know this but I have a "day job" also... as faith would have it, that job is working directly with indigneous people all over the world.

    Thirdly I too am an ordained Shaman. I was ordained by the Bwiti. However that does NOT mean I am a shaman. Nor does it mean Hamilton is one. It is just a title... kind of like a medal for "thanks for playing". So the human race needs to relax regarding that word. It gets used a lot and people don't even know what it means or implies, and many westerners get the title from indigenous peoples and then think they are shamans. They are not. They are more "an accident about to happen".

    And finally: direct experience is key

    Anyone (including me) that argues an opinion with zero direct experience of the topic in question really needs to shut up.

    If you don't have the Stone = shut up
    If you have not had a shamanic experience of any sort = shut up
    If you have not seen a ghost/ufo etc = shut up
    If you have not been in space and seen the Earth (round/flat) = shut up

    Direct experience or silence. I am really trying to follow this creed of mine, but I too slip up sometimes.

    It is a shame, though... I wish everyone in the world could sit in ceremony with traditional "real" shamans... and drink a "real" cup of Ayahuasca (not that watered down tourist brew)... but as the shamans themselves say (and I paraphrase): Ayahuasca calls you, you don't call it

    So that must mean JDP has an unlisted phone number or Ayahuasca simply decided to call someone else.



    Last edited by Awani; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:59 PM.
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #175
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    I don't believe in coincidences. Just as above post was written I was sent this:

    https://www.globalayahuascaproject.org/global-survey/

    The first research activity of the Global Ayahuasca Project is a Global survey of ayahuasca drinkers


    Edit: is it normal to almost cry filling in a survey? Ha ha ha... that's the power of the brew.

    Last edited by Awani; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:41 PM.
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    First of all I know personally, and some I simply are aware of, 100% dedicated phd level scientists that are conducting proper research... not stumbling around in the Amazon like some lost rave kid with a chemistry set (phd or not).

    Secondly I have probably spent more time with old-fashioned practitioners that are still around than Mr. Hamilton, and engaged in their rituals (not only in Peru but also Ecuador and Gabon... as well as in New Mexico... however I don't count that because it was too brief). You might not know this but I have a "day job" also... as faith would have it, that job is working directly with indigneous people all over the world.

    Thirdly I too am an ordained Shaman. I was ordained by the Bwiti. However that does NOT mean I am a shaman. Nor does it mean Hamilton is one. It is just a title... kind of like a medal for "thanks for playing". So the human race needs to relax regarding that word. It gets used a lot and people don't even know what it means or implies, and many westerners get the title from indigenous peoples and then think they are shamans. They are not. They are more "an accident about to happen".

    And finally: direct experience is key

    Anyone (including me) that argues an opinion with zero direct experience of the topic in question really needs to shut up.

    If you don't have the Stone = shut up
    If you have not had a shamanic experience of any sort = shut up
    If you have not seen a ghost/ufo etc = shut up
    If you have not been in space and seen the Earth (round/flat) = shut up

    Direct experience or silence. I am really trying to follow this creed of mine, but I too slip up sometimes.

    It is a shame, though... I wish everyone in the world could sit in ceremony with traditional "real" shamans... and drink a "real" cup of Ayahuasca (not that watered down tourist brew)... but as the shamans themselves say (and I paraphrase): Ayahuasca calls you, you don't call it

    So that must mean JDP has an unlisted phone number or Ayahuasca simply decided to call someone else.



    The difference is that Hamilton can easily prove his extensive experience with the subject: he takes cameras to all the places he goes, all the people he has interacted with (both traditionalists & chemists), and all the drugs he himself has prepared and taken. Again: he sees ZERO evidence whatsoever that these drugs really do what the "traditional" users claim. However, he does acknowledge that these drugs do have proper and real medical uses. That is the "official" stance on the subject. I don't see any actual scientists believing that you can actually communicate with "gods", or "spirits", or travel through "other dimensions/planes of existence", and so forth by using these drugs. Their value is of a more concrete and substantial nature.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The difference is that Hamilton can easily prove his extensive experience with the subject...
    Don't exaggerate. His contribution to psychedelic research and indigenous knowledge is about 0.01 %.

    "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia." - Thomas Szasz

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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