Is psychedelics a valid path?

[thoth]

Well we have used the term psycehdelic experience, but most of the time I am talking about an Ayahuasca experience.

Ayahuasca cannot be compared to the other psycehdelics (at least the ones I have tried), and it is in a league of its own. IMO. Iboga even more powerful, but for me personally it is Ayahuasca that is my teacher.

You are correct that psychedelics is not the path on its own. But it certainly is part of the path. Even if I never do any psycehdelics again for the rest of my life, they will never leave me. My relationship with them, and what I have experienced, is now part of who I am. There is no separation between me and Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is the teacher... so if I follow the teacher then I am on the teachers path... and the teacher is a plant. So...

To gain something, and to ride the wave then yes you need some experience and pre-knowledge... but I can take anyone in the world, sit that person down and make them smoke a large hit of DMT... and like it or not, they are going to "go somewhere". They don't need any pre-knowledge for this. Just shut the fuck up and inhale. LOL.

I could have achieved what I have achieved without psychedelics, although I would have probably wasted 30 years doing it "the natural" way... maybe more, maybe never.

Just one example out of thousands: I would never have forgiven my father and let my issues regarding my father go. Not a soul on this planet, not the best psychologist could have ever made me give up my hate. It was a part of who I was. I had carried that hate for 25+ years... I enjoyed it. And I was planning to do something. Violence. Revenge. Fraud. Something... maybe only in fantasy... but I would never let it go. NEVER.

Ayahuasca removed it in 3.5 hours. Gone. Forever. Free.

That is ONE example only.

Yes, maybe I could have reached my current feelings about my father without psychedelics... that is possible, yes. But why suffer for decades, when you can be cured in a moment? Only an idiot would take the long path. Now I can focus on the REAL issues... not waste precious time on bullshit issues.

The funny thing is I did not even request Ayahuasca to deal with this issue. I did not even think it was an issue.

Ayahuasca had other ideas. LOL.

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For someone that has not worked properly with Ayahuasca it might sound crazy... I can only say that what I speak is true based on what I have experienced... and Ayahuasca is self-conscious. No doubt.

Jesus saith... because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. - John 20:29 [KJV]

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The podcast has 30 000 downloads... 200 episodes soon... had dinner with Dennis McKenna thanks to the podcast and expanded my network in terms of cool people. Ayahuasca told me to do the podcast. Not I.

I manage a charity that is growing by the day. A lot of doors has opened and some pretty amazing opportunities has occured due to this. Ayahuasca told me to start the charity.

I have a beautiful daughter. Ayahuasca told me to create a child. I was against it before.

The list goes on and on.

Basically by now if Ayahuasca tells me to jump off a cliff I go: Yes Sir!

Ayahuasca is my fucking manager, that never gives bad advice. You can claim it is coming from deep within me... sure you could claim that. But frankly... I don't recognize my own voice when it speaks. So... yes... mystery... embrace the mystery.

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Also it has been soon 4 years since I had my last Ayahuasca ceremony... I am still going through my notes... so those that think I drink every week are way off...

I hope to try Aya someday soon. I do believe it is an intelligence/spirit.

Datura sounds scary, and some amazon countries use it more than others. It may be related to heart problems. I guess dosage is important.

You can always email a well run place in advance and ask if it goes in the brew

[Kibric]

Which component in your avatar are you saying is the old man has become young plant. I searched and did not see any documents stating that a depiction of the plant of the Gilgamesh story had been discovered.

It is part of the Dilmun seals which depict the creation story. The horned plant being held by the two figures is the flower of life.( "Old Men Become Young." plant )
I will try to find you a paper on it that's not behind a paywall.

[Kibric]

Back on topic. I think this is relevant to this thread and how time is perceived in altered states.

An experiment by Rolland Fischer related the alteration of metabolism to changes in time sense, spatial sense and their juxtaposition.
He administered drugs to test his cases which either accelerated or retarded their metabolism. When a person is given a stimulant ( amphetamines, cocaine, LSD )
his metabolic rate increases, the respiration rate increases, and the rate at which his eyes receive images increases.
Receiving proportionally more images in an equivalent amount of time than usual produces an overestimation of duration and a sense that time is passing slowly.
(if normally the person received six images per second and in the excited state received nine images per second, he would then think that every second actually contained
a second and a half of perceptions. ) If a tranquilliser is administered the metabolic rate decreases, the respiration rate decreases and the rate at which the eyes
receive images decreases an consequently fewer images are perceived in the same time. This produces an underestimation of the passage of time, and time seems to fly by.

- A.T Mann, The Round Art.

Alterations in interpretations of space time are not only concomitant with the states of excitation and tranquilization induced by drugs
which raise or lower the metabolic rate. Other contrasting pairs of modi such as youth and old age also produce high and low metabolic rate respectively
and thus concomitant changes in interpretation of space time.
The seeming contradiction that time passes more slowly for the young and faster for the old is resolved in light of the above explication

- Rolland Fischer

[Aspiring Alkemist]

Shamanism and the psychedelics there included brought me later on to discovering alchemy. My first alchemical experiments directly involved psychedelics.

[Awani]

It has nothing to do with the wacky uncorroborated theories/speculation you are exposing.

For someone steeped in fact, science, empirical evidence etc., I find it extremely interesting that you are even interested in the BIGGEST mumbo jumbo pseudo-science there is: alchemy

[JDP]

For someone steeped in fact, science, empirical evidence etc., I find it extremely interesting that you are even interested in the BIGGEST mumbo jumbo pseudo-science there is: alchemy

Not at all. Even if we supposed that the Stone does not exist, alchemy would still always have its place in the history of science. But the TRUE BIGGEST mumbo-jumbo pseudo-science are things like "astral projections", "magic", "ayahuasca", "mind-reading", "reality-denial", "reality of illusion", "ghosts","witches", "goblins", "Elvis-is-still-alive-and-he-dwells-in-a-Las-Vegas-Trailer-Park" and the like nonsense. None of it has the slightest shred of evidence and has no place at all in the history of science.

[Awani]

Are you aware that there are serious scientific research going on in terms of ayahuasca?

Not sure, though, why ayahyasca needs evidence? Evidence for? Cure = cured. Does it not? And why should it belong in the history of science? And why not? Your statements makes no sense.

You can convince yourself all you want but contemporary science has more faith in psychedelic plants than in alchemy, and like it or not the revolution began a few years ago.

[JDP]

Are you aware that there are serious scientific research going on in terms of ayahuasca?

Not sure, though, why ayahyasca needs evidence? Evidence for? Cure = cured. Does it not? And why should it belong in the history of science? And why not? Your statements makes no sense.

You can convince yourself all you want but contemporary science has more faith in psychedelic plants than in alchemy, and like it or not the revolution began a few years ago.

Remember the guy from Hamilton's Pharmacopeia? His stance is in fact the only value science sees in psychedelic plants. Certainly not about "communicating" with any "gods", or "spirits", or travelling "astral planes" and the like strange claims. They give some respect to the old traditions involving these plants, but see it only as a cultural thing, certainly not something that can be taken seriously as "science". None of them believe in the claims of the traditional users of these plants. They are interested in such things as the possible real therapeutic effects of such plants, though.

[Awani]

I don’t use TV as my source. Not credible.

I know. That is good enough for me.

[Awani]

After your comment I watched the TV show you mentioned. Are you serious? That is your source? You cling to what THAT TV show states as your scientific position on ayahuasca (the ayahuasca they drink didn’t even look real).

If this is the kind of foundation you have behind your ”facts” then all your facts are fucked.

“His stance...”. The only stance I would value from Hamilton is what Emo band is hot right now.