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Thread: Is psychedelics a valid path?

  1. #31
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    Maybe it's a valid "tool" (my English is sometimes terrible) and not exactly a "path".

    My GF made me know this comedian, I think he has fantastic ideas:

  2. #32
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    I hate Bill Hicks!

    He says everything I wanted to say, but couldn't find the words...now it seems I am just quoting him.

    Just kidding...I love Bill Hicks; he is an enigma and I think we were short changed by his passing.

    An Interview With Bill Hicks

    Ghislain
    Last edited by Ghislain; 09-19-2012 at 08:41 AM.
    Open Book
    "Dogmatic Assumption Inhibits Enquiry" Rupert Sheldrake

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel Matina View Post
    It's been suppressed by the West since the 1920s, in my opinion more because of the way opium was used as an instrument of control over China by Britain during the colonial period. The current dominance of the West in terms of setting the world's policies is (likewise in my opinion) entirely the enduring legacy of the colonial period, specifically in the fact that most of the institutions of global interchange currently in use were developed as instruments of colonial control. The catholic church suppressed the use of certain psychedelics at various points in history, and it's possible to falsely identify that as many do with the current program of prohibition, but really it was limited to specific substances and vectors because of their role in competing cosmologies (though there is certainly an argument that the current bans have a similar motive, which I would disagree with, it's clear that there's simply no temporal continuity between them). Later on, various protestants endorsed alcohol bans (which easily extended to other substances) under the general banner of avoiding "worldly pleasures", and this movement did play a role in politicizing prohibition this century. Europe's recent past appears superficially to be devoid of psychedelics, but you have to consider that there are no easily identified, prolific psychedelic plants in Europe as there are in, say, Afghanistan. The knowledge required to identify and properly dose the psychedelic plants and fungi that *do* grow in Europe tended to be handed down through institutions that competed with the Catholic church. These institutions were rooted out surprisingly recently; for example, during and prior to the reformation there was a huge movement to 'correct' and in some cases exterminate communities that were deemed for whatever reason "insufficiently Christian" (there's an interesting specific example involving weird sexual practices that survived into the historical record but I can't quite be buggered to go find it). Thus, the main psychoactives available to Christian Europeans for the millennium and change are alcohol and, later, coffee.

    In short the current hostility toward an arbitrary and broad group of psychoactives is very much the historical exception, and it's a testament to the effectiveness of modern instruments of propaganda that they've successfully convinced the world that it's the rule. If the European post-enlightenment academic system (another of those instruments of colonial control, its persistent usefulness notwithstanding) hadn't been adopted worldwide, even that wouldn't have worked.
    I disagree. Psychoactive and psychedelic are two different things (coffee is not ayahuascha), especially shamanic psychedelic initiations which has not been used hardly at all... and if so it has been done in secret. It has not been accessible by the masses. Since Jesus the West had not had an open psychedelic culture. And if it has it has been suppressed historically.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #34
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    Relative silence in the historical record is not necessarily the result of suppression. Remember that the term "literatus" referred originally to a kind of priest.

    I would not say so much since Jesus, or even since Constantine. Native European psychedelics require specialist knowledge to find, prepare, and dose, and that knowledge was passed down within institutions that competed with the church. I would say the big events relevant to that are the foundation of the inquisition (which tried to separate those institutions from positions of political and economic power) and the reformation (when the attempt began in earnest to thoroughly stamp them out).

    Also, alcohol can be quite an efficacious initiatory agent. Don't forget about the Maenads. You could use coffee too, but generally where coffee has been drunk historically more effective things have been available.

    What you're saying (and implying) about today's culture I certainly agree with. I wanted to caution to clear the mist of modernity off your glasses when looking at the past.
    From separation between the seen and the unseen, a feeling of distance.
    From separation between the seen and the seen, a feeling of breadth.
    From separation between the unseen and the unseen, a feeling of depth.
    From rotation of the elements, a feeling of motion.
    From the equivalence of alternate rotations, a feeling of choice.

  5. #35
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    I hear what you are saying, but today average joe can be initiated in the Amazon or Gabon (or elsewhere). There are Ayahuasca churches and Mushroom religions on the rise. There is a greater awareness and the laws seem more and more silly. The Internet. The shrinking size of the world. The discovery of DMT... the re-discovery of indigenous cultures. All of this is part of the last 70 years or so. It has not been like this before. Not on this scale. If there had been a real use of psychedelics in the last 2000 years someone would have mentioned it. I mean my God after I took it for the first time I was wondering why my experience wasn't on the news? I mean this stuff is baffling. How can one not utter a word about it? Sure fear, but psychedelics kind of makes you fearless. If you can survive that, you can survive anything.

    For me historically what is interesting is anything before year 0, and anything after 2012. Whatever is in-between is hardly impressive IMO.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #36
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    Globalism is definitely new, and is making agents available unprecedented in their variety and efficacy. That changes a lot of things, but not the basic relationship between humans and altered states of consciousness. Even that transfer is a bit older than you think; psychoactive cultivars were in full global distribution by the beginning of the nineteenth century, with the most effective modern refined derivatives widely available by the middle of the same. The revolution in synthetic psychoactives came more toward the twentieth, with state-enforced prohibition and propaganda efforts following shortly on its heels. It's that last that you've seen decay over the past 70 years, which started little more than thirty years before that; some of what you're understanding as its breakdown was in fact the alternative impulse. I would say actually that the peak of prohibition in terms of strength relative to its alternative was the nineties (at least in America; populations are like connected pools when it comes to these things, and different pools can evidence different stages of of process simultaneously) and with the rise of the internet and the broader education in psychopharmacology it provides I've seen a gradual breakdown of the "poison/intoxicant/medicine" understanding of psychoactives in favor of a more complex approach closer to their actual nature.

    I think you'll find that if you scratch beneath the surface of the retroactive identities which support modern nation-states, there's a lot you'd find to be of interest. If nothing else, there's how much of the modern world was built with the Art. Even beyond that, historical sources are not representative; the vast majority of documents attesting any given period are from one extremely narrow population or another, which invariably have their own agenda and limitations of insight; the art of reading history is thus by and large the art of seeing the unstated. Maybe I'll start a thread on the alchemy of history.
    From separation between the seen and the unseen, a feeling of distance.
    From separation between the seen and the seen, a feeling of breadth.
    From separation between the unseen and the unseen, a feeling of depth.
    From rotation of the elements, a feeling of motion.
    From the equivalence of alternate rotations, a feeling of choice.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel Matina View Post
    Maybe I'll start a thread on the alchemy of history.
    Sounds like a good idea. It is for sure an interesting subject matter to discuss.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    People who take psychedelics weekly are, in my opinion, doing something wrong. Or they are taking weak doses of weak psychedelics. One Big Bang is all you need, the trip will follow you for the rest of your life. This can also be scary if there are truths in it one is not ready to face. But sometimes we need a slap in the face!

    The alchemical/hermetic rules certainly apply IMO.
    Psychedelia need to be circulated... you have to come "down" for a while to know how "high" you've gone
    and to know how much heaven has been converted to earth and vice-cersa.
    Trying to stay "high" all the time or chasing highs is not alchemical IMO.
    An alchemist magnetises "high" by being fertile soil. The "soil" must be replenished and fortified and nourished.
    If one depletes oneself and keeps taking psychedelia, this is not alchemical.
    Puffers chase; alchemists magnetise.
    So as in the difference between alchemy and chemistry, the alchemist is key ingredient.
    Two people rarely have the same experience, tolerance, vision, etc.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi View Post
    So as in the difference between alchemy and chemistry, the alchemist is key ingredient.
    I might have to steal this quote

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  10. #40
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    I agree

    It is very succinct.

    Ghislain
    Open Book
    "Dogmatic Assumption Inhibits Enquiry" Rupert Sheldrake

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