Click HERE if you want to join Alchemy Forums!

Patrons of the Sacred Art

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 143

Thread: Is psychedelics a valid path?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    Maybe it's a valid "tool" (my English is sometimes terrible) and not exactly a "path".
    I respectfully disagree.
    http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
    Last edited by Andro; 04-01-2014 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Quotation codes inserted.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,423
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkostheGnostic View Post
    Maybe it's a valid "tool" (my English is sometimes terrible) and not exactly a "path".

    I respectfully disagree.
    http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
    O.K... I didn't explain myself better, it was just a sentence! :P

    I mostly meant that I don't think that psychedelics or entheogens are really a "path" by themselves... That a "path" is something a bit bigger than that.

    It's a bit like vegetarianism... it is very important to understand some traditions. Even some traditions didn't even accept members who were not vegetarian (ie, the school of Pythagoras)...
    But I wouldn't say that "vegetarianism" is a path... nor I think that "vegetarianism" by itself leads to the philosophy of Pythagoras (well... certainly it doesn't).

    There are other similar practices... I don't know, fasting, comes to my mind as an example.
    It does make a lot of sense to do it in the context of some traditions... and, of course, with caution... but "fasting" in itself isn't what I would call "a path".

    If vegetarianism and fasting were "paths", then PETA would be full of enlightened people and the anorexic models would be incredibly wise... but the fact is that even if I like PETA a lot, I know they often do stupid things... and the anorexic models are in most cases not THAT smart (I'm sorry for using a stereotype!).

    Anyway.... this is mostly a discussion about a word, "path"... and not really about psychedelics or psychedelic experiences.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,646
    Path:

    1. a way beaten, formed, or trodden by the feet of persons or animals.
    2. a narrow walk or way: a path through a garden; a bicycle path.
    3. a route, course, or track along which something moves: the path of a hurricane.
    4. a course of action, conduct, or procedure: the path of righteousness.
    5. Mathematics . a continuous curve that connects two or more points.

    Source:

    Which definition fits best with your train of thought Zoas?

    Another interesting word is "Way"

    Way:

    1. manner, mode, or fashion: a new way of looking at a matter; to reply in a polite way.
    2. characteristic or habitual manner: Her way is to work quietly and never complain.
    3. a method, plan, or means for attaining a goal: to find a way to reduce costs.
    4. a respect or particular: The plan is defective in several ways.
    5. a direction or vicinity: Look this way. We're having a drought out our way.
    6. passage or progress on a course: to make one's way on foot; to lead the way.
    7. Often, ways. distance: They've come a long way.
    8. a path or course leading from one place to another: What's the shortest way to town?
    9. British .
    a. an old Roman or pre-Roman road: Icknield Way.
    b. a minor street in a town: He lives in Stepney Way.
    10. a road, route, passage, or channel (usually used in combination): highway; waterway; doorway.
    11. Law . a right of way.
    12. any line of passage or travel, used or available: to blaze a way through dense woods.
    13. space for passing or advancing: to clear a way through the crowd.
    14. Often, ways. a habit or custom: The grandmother lived by the ways of the old country.
    15. course or mode of procedure that one chooses or wills: They had to do it my way.
    16. condition, as to health, prosperity, or the like: to be in a bad way.
    17. range or extent of experience or notice: the best device that ever came in my way.
    18. a course of life, action, or experience: The way of transgressors is hard.
    19. Informal . business: to be in the haberdashery way.
    20. Nautical .
    a. ways, two or more ground ways down which a hull slides in being launched.
    b. movement or passage through the water.
    21. Machinery . a longitudinal strip, as in a planer, guiding a moving part along a surface.


    Ghislain
    Last edited by Ghislain; 09-23-2012 at 11:53 AM.
    Open Book
    "Dogmatic Assumption Inhibits Enquiry" Rupert Sheldrake

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    187
    We have some interesting, field-specific usage to explore here. The terms are ambiguous in their usage across different contexts, but I'm detecting four underlying meanings (of course, the whole point of setting out the analysis for me is to be told if it's flawed more than for pedantic reasons, though it's always a thrill to share something new to someone). Attempting to select names in optimal conformity with their usage here:

    Tradition: a set of knowledge and practices passed down through multiple individuals; alternately, the set of participating individuals. These are inevitably centered around some particular aim or activity; the same group of individuals can participate in multiple traditions, although there is a tendency of such intersections to find a common aim or practice and thus merge the traditions (or create a completely new one). This is primarily driven by the phenomenon of elements of one tradition being coopted for use in another, and the convergence in content this produces. As a result, there is a tendency for the defining aim or activity to drift as the content mutates over different permutations.

    Method/Tool: The specific practices and ideas which cohere to form the content of the tradition.

    Stream/School/Branch/Path/Way: As the participating community of a tradition segments into subsets in infrequent contact, their differential intersections produce drift between their content. If this lasts long enough, their aims can become unintelligible to each other and they have become functionally separate traditions. They reach the point of being separate paths when the aims of the two streams remain intelligible, but the body of methods each hosts fail to cohere with each other, making indiscriminate selection between the practices within the two of them fail to drive progress toward the common aim.

    By this analysis, psychedelics are a tool within the tradition (which has found use within all its branches at one point or another), and there is also a "psychedelic path" named arbitrarily for the notability of that tool within their stream.
    From separation between the seen and the unseen, a feeling of distance.
    From separation between the seen and the seen, a feeling of breadth.
    From separation between the unseen and the unseen, a feeling of depth.
    From rotation of the elements, a feeling of motion.
    From the equivalence of alternate rotations, a feeling of choice.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    US. Missouri.
    Posts
    163
    All movements are mind altering.
    The mind is altered easyer than feeling.
    some things alter more than others.

    As an aghori would aim for.
    Fly high, but when you come back to earth,bring the sky with you.
    flying high,coupled with the high coming low.
    Thus the heavens are always with you.

    Salvia divinorum and cannabis mixed unblocked a childhood ability of mine.
    Partially anyway. Then I used physiological manipulation to release the rest of it.

    A key. Can unlock doors if turned.
    that same key,can lock that same door,if turned the opposite way.

    My little one knows. Keys unlock doors. He often tries to unlock any door with any key. Although he is too little to reach the locks. He also does not yet realize.
    that the key only unlocks specific doors. And that it can only lock spacific doors.

    So its all in how you use the key.

    As well. My ability. Every movement of your body,alters consciousness.
    Knowing it and perceiving it directly.
    in short. Eating,not eating,moving,twitching,posture,talking,all the senses,thinking/feeling. Breathing,your heart pumping. It is all mind/feeling altering.

    Man fears that which causes quick alteration.
    If I slowly change into a murderer, he create theories as to why. If I slowly change into an asshole. We create theories as to why.
    But if I take a drug. And these things are suddenly brought to fruition.
    we blame the drug.
    As well,I could suddenly developed compassion,or a.giving nature.

    Possession by a drug can happen as well. That is the danger.
    drink the drink. Dont let the drink,drink you.
    A man can control water in a cup. He has it contained.
    but a man cannot control the uncontained ocean.

    Lowering inhibitions makes alteration easyer and thus more rapid.
    but if the drug is powerful. One can loose control of alterations.

    The biggest danger, is an amateur ignorant and possessed by the alterations.

    This is easily seen in sober people. Emotions. Mans mind is supported by feeling.
    when feeling changes so does mind. People become possessed by temporary intense emotions,and commonly can't see beyond them.

    In the bright light. With purpose in mind. One can use drugs effectively and without downfall.
    Know the purpose. Know the drug.know its alterations.know the territory!
    When in doubt. Start with small doses. And work your way up the turtle wins this race. The rabbit ends up hangin out with the madhatter in wonderland.

    Oh! The hardest part in this path. Bringing it to reality after the drug. Fixating the volatile.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    O.K... I didn't explain myself better, it was just a sentence! :P

    I mostly meant that I don't think that psychedelics or entheogens are really a "path" by themselves... That a "path" is something a bit bigger than that.

    It's a bit like vegetarianism... it is very important to understand some traditions. Even some traditions didn't even accept members who were not vegetarian (ie, the school of Pythagoras)...
    But I wouldn't say that "vegetarianism" is a path... nor I think that "vegetarianism" by itself leads to the philosophy of Pythagoras (well... certainly it doesn't).

    There are other similar practices... I don't know, fasting, comes to my mind as an example.
    It does make a lot of sense to do it in the context of some traditions... and, of course, with caution... but "fasting" in itself isn't what I would call "a path".

    If vegetarianism and fasting were "paths", then PETA would be full of enlightened people and the anorexic models would be incredibly wise... but the fact is that even if I like PETA a lot, I know they often do stupid things... and the anorexic models are in most cases not THAT smart (I'm sorry for using a stereotype!).

    Anyway.... this is mostly a discussion about a word, "path"... and not really about psychedelics or psychedelic experiences.
    OK, that makes sense. Just taking a psychedelic doesn't make a path. True. Wine can be taken sacramentally, ritually, recreationally, or compulsively (addictively). Psychedelics are all-too-often just mind-toys for the bored, thrill-seeking, rebellious, and/or disenfranchised. Vegetarianism and fasting can be consequences of the heightened awareness and insight provided by psychedelic trips. For me, I saw the immediate similarities between Indian Yoga and Neoplatonic philosophy, both of which I was studying as a consequence of heavy psychedelic use. I saw psychedelic experience as giving rise to both of these philosophies millennia ago, and then I used those philosophical frameworks to serve as 'scaffolding' to support the psychedelic 'rocket ship.' This is kind of what the William Hurt character in the film 'Altered States' did when he enhanced the psychedelic shaman brew with a sensory deprivation tank. Classic Yoga moves progressively to greater degrees of sensory withdrawal until awareness of internal states far outweighs the outer world. Pythagoras influenced Plato, and I won't speculate on Pythagoras, but I have an intuition that Plato had the psychedelic Kykeon at Eleusis. Yoga has been theorized as originating with the Soma of the Vedas, but I rather think that Psilocybes and their relation to Sacred Cows and Sacred Cow Dung is a likelier candidate than Wasson's notion of the Amanita muscaria. But all of these things I've mentioned are part of a psychedelic path. Had I not taken psychedelics, the entire course of my life would have been different. Not only would I not have spent the time to take 3 academic degrees in subjects like philosophy, theology, and psychology, I would not have returned from the frame shop this afternoon with my old copy of Joseph Parker's 'Sunrise in Blue,' 41 years after having taken my first psychedelic trip on 200 Freedonia® Heavenly Blue Morning Glory Seeds. http://iasos.com/artists/jparker/

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,646
    Thanks Avaar186

    A great post with useful insight.

    MtG are you recommending Freedonia® Heavenly Blue Morning Glory Seeds?

    I notice that Joseph Parker does like to keep to the same theme in his art...is the lake an obstacle to what lies beyond?

    Some do contain roads/paths to the other side.

    Beautiful pictures.

    Ghislain

    Just thought...we are talking of psychedelics being a valid path and JP is painting valid paths to the psychedelics.
    Last edited by Ghislain; 09-24-2012 at 05:12 AM.
    Open Book
    "Dogmatic Assumption Inhibits Enquiry" Rupert Sheldrake

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    504
    No, I'm not recommending Lysergic Acid Amides in morning glories. They produce a very unwanted lethargy that Albert Hofmann addressed in his book LSD: My Problem Child. I was merely noting that my first psychedelic visions were "occasioned" by them. 'Sunrise in Blue' is as accurate a rendering of those visions as ever I've seen, although the slowly rotating and kaleidoscopic morphing was of an 'astral' silvery-blue, and were not centered around the Sun. Other accounts of morning glory trips can be found in Masters and Houston's The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience. Aside from the depiction of said visions, and the four alchemical elements, I have not interpreted this piece of art as anything other than a type of visionary experience that may, for all I know, be behind Ezekiel's vision of Ophanim (Wheels-within-Wheels, covered with eyes [perhaps symbols of omniscience]).

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    US. Missouri.
    Posts
    163
    Soma may have been mushrooms.
    But I would like to bring up.
    that many of us take mind altering substances
    A: we take only that plant. Scarcely mixing and matching
    B: little preperation of the substance beyond need.
    Ie the hallucinogenic brew containing dmt,is prepared because without preparation the dmt would not enter our system.

    soma may very well be the name of a prepared and possibly mixed substance.
    Thus it very well may be raw.mushrooms. or raw mushrooms prepared.

    Agnihotra is the name for the science of using ashes.
    unfortunately its a hard thing to research.

    Their is an actual name for the path traversed using drugs in the Indie language. Although its been years since I came upon the word.

    As well. When it comes to preparation. Know ayurveda is a natural science. Just as alchemy is. And may possibly be an equivalent of sorts.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    504
    Alchemy in India is called Rasayana.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts