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Thread: Tantric Alchemy

  1. #21
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    Mod Note: Off topic moved to this thread from HERE
    ____________________________________

    III,

    Thank you for your post. You've left me with a lot to ponder.
    Is there such a thing as black tantra? If so, what is it? Or is there just tantra?
    Does black tantra have to do with spilling of the semen?
    I'd venture a guess that certain actions and practices are designed to achieve different results.


    "Under the tutelage of an accomplished tantra teacher, the student learns to conserve and sublimate sexual energies. This is in stark contrast to black tantra, where the sexual energies are allowed to spill through into orgasm.

    'Rati Rahasyam' states that tantra awakens consciousness to the absence of our desires, while black tantra awakens consciousness to our inner-most desires. In other words, this path can put one on a slippery slope towards ignorance, as it concludes with orgasm/ejaculation in order to awaken consciousness. However, it must not be seen as an aberrant offshoot of the original discipline. Rather, it worthwhile viewing it as a means to engage in profound love-making rites with deities via meditation. After years of such advanced practice, we begin to experience siddhis or supernatural powers that can help us on our journey to samadhi - or spiritual realization.

    What emerges is that the practice of tantra or any of its variants without proper tutelage from a qualified tantra master can lead to much distress. There are no shortcuts, and every variant has its place in the overall scheme of things. However, only an accomplished tantra master can chart the journey for you for optimum spiritual benefit."


    Can you please shed some light on this above quote for me, based on your own experience?
    Last edited by Andro; 06-16-2013 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Thread topic management.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital View Post
    Mod Note: Off topic moved to this thread from HERE
    ____________________________________

    III,

    Thank you for your post. You've left me with a lot to ponder.
    Is there such a thing as black tantra? If so, what is it? Or is there just tantra?
    Does black tantra have to do with spilling of the semen?
    I'd venture a guess that certain actions and practices are designed to achieve different results.


    "Under the tutelage of an accomplished tantra teacher, the student learns to conserve and sublimate sexual energies. This is in stark contrast to black tantra, where the sexual energies are allowed to spill through into orgasm.

    'Rati Rahasyam' states that tantra awakens consciousness to the absence of our desires, while black tantra awakens consciousness to our inner-most desires. In other words, this path can put one on a slippery slope towards ignorance, as it concludes with orgasm/ejaculation in order to awaken consciousness. However, it must not be seen as an aberrant offshoot of the original discipline. Rather, it worthwhile viewing it as a means to engage in profound love-making rites with deities via meditation. After years of such advanced practice, we begin to experience siddhis or supernatural powers that can help us on our journey to samadhi - or spiritual realization.

    What emerges is that the practice of tantra or any of its variants without proper tutelage from a qualified tantra master can lead to much distress. There are no shortcuts, and every variant has its place in the overall scheme of things. However, only an accomplished tantra master can chart the journey for you for optimum spiritual benefit."


    Can you please shed some light on this above quote for me, based on your own experience?
    Hi Orbital,

    Now for a second try with the first disappeared into cyberspace due to a sign in conflict on a different tab. First, let me say that it does take a qualified teacher to "catalyze" a person. Also there are hazards. On reading the whole thing it almost sounds like what he is calling "black Tantra" which I have never heard of,, but that could be purely ignorance on my part due to limited reading. However, his description makes it sound like he is avoiding the purification process in which all of ones blockages and attachments and such rise to the surface to be changed or removed but then says there is a place for all variants.

    In Alchemy there is a time to not ejaculate and a time to ejaculate. The whole business of ejaculation and energies suffer from millennia of trying to say things to fit the local prejudices and lack of explicit explanations of neurology and physiology until the current mishmash is confusing at best. All of the old explanations have an incorrect understanding of refractory period after ejaculation. If you search there is a moderately long discussion all about ejaculation and the effects and misunderstandings. I see pretty much nowhere discussing the right way from the wrong way of not ejaculating.

    One estimate I saw by an Alchemist who is also a Jungian therapist is that 99% are in the USA are teaching "Sacred Sex" or whatever and completely ignore the alchemical and mystical. Again the books are mentioned in some of the lengthy posts.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Thank you for your thoughts III, and thank you Androgynus for your humility (I also thought my post got sucked into the abyss of cyberspace).
    This teacher does touch on and places emphasis on cleansing before he works with a student.
    He says he's a tantra master from a direct lineage of tantra teachers of old based in India.
    Here is a link to the site from which I posted the quote here.

    http://www.tantrasadhana.com/


    I also heard this today on a podcast I d/l'd from Urban Guru Cafe, which I thought was incredibly profound. Ironically, it brought a lot of stuff I posted earlier full
    circle to me from the, "sexual orientation and alchemy" thread.

    http://podbay.fm/show/335548344/e/1237190617
    Last edited by Orbital; 06-18-2013 at 05:13 AM.

  4. #24
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    Sonnenstein
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    Hi everyone,

    I would like to point out a few things, because i am actually quite disappointed by this reading, i started with great expectations and ended up reading 3 pages of sex working, i really hope i don't sound too negative and critic now, i can understand everyone has his/her view of the world, but i really disagree with this view of Tantra.... Especially what has been called Tantric Alchemy.

    My apologies.

    You just spoke for 3 pages about sex and how sex is the spiritual practice of the tantrics and why it should be legitimate as that... But has any of you ever been in India and if it's the case, has sincerely made discernment between the huge amount of low-caste frauds and the true teachers? I am quite worried, this view of Tantra is so wrong...

    I am pro sex, it's a wonderful thing, but to say it's a spiritual activity, and to make sex instead of the real practices seems like some want to not see real things. Like that bird hiding its head in the sand. Sex is spiritual when you give birth to a new life. And that is Alchemy too. The most literal existing.

    I am quite direct with my statements, i know, and i hope nobody gets offended, but i can't be silent as i grew up in a tantric family, and not a christian one. I feel lucky as in my life i met several Saints and "Realized" people, so i cant hide what they truly teach, as they are people with a conscious link to the Infinite Light. There MAY be some VERY rare sexual practices among few tantric groups (REAL ones), but most sexual images present in books printed by westeners are interpreted wrong. It's the same as if i would interpret any of our alchemical symbols for example the serpent that bites it's own tail, and i go and look for a snake in the forest, catch it, make it bite his own tail, and then maybe (?) cook it..... ((The only thing i could accomplish by that would be a teriac, if i add a few herbal extracts to the snake decoction)) Also, how many sexual references are in european alchemical images? And the birth of Prometheus, from Zeus pissing a golden rain on Danae? Should we engage in those fetish activities?

    I have seen a few correct concepts in this Thread, (but) the only i remember is that there is capital importance in the presence of two spiritual counterparts: Shiva and Shakti.

    Next i can say is that Tantra is like Hermetic, it's just exactly the same thing, only that it uses a (very) slightly different language.

    So, Shiva is Mercury, Shakti is Sulfur. They tend to invert the polarity of male female, but it doesnt change anything. Ask any real tantric and they will agree. There are so many very interesting things to say about alchemical view of Tantra, i'll name some soon.

    First of all, ethimology, Tantra means "practical book", so to start learning tantric teaching we must study tantric books (Kularnava Tantra for example)..

    A Tantric text usually works on these topics:
    -creation of universe
    -destruction of universe
    -adoration of the Divine in several forms
    -realization of life's goals, and certain powers
    -kinds of meditation and other practices to obtain the Highest Truth.


    What are the practices: several meditations involving energetic movements, rituals like Pujas (cerimonial magic/theurgy), practices focusing on repetition of Mantras, Yantras (magic squares), and many other things very closely resembling the Magic of our culture.

    Tantra involves also using unusual practices like sex, or smoking. But those are very very advanced stuff to perform. If you have a "common" mind, how can you be truly detached from a sexual act? It's the strongest feeling that Nature gave to man. And how can one not be affected by the high of smoking charas in a chillum? Just the most advanced can do this. Most """"""sadhus"""""" seen on the internet (or on indian streets) are poor people, beggars, with no goals in life.

    Sorry for this excursus, but it was necessary, there is a lot of misunderstandig, now getting back to the Alchemy.

    So most important is the division between followers of Shiva the male God, and those of Shakti the Divine Mother.

    The main groups focus on Shakti cults, among them most important work in the system of the Dus Mahavidya, the 10 Mothers. The first is Kali, and according to Tantra she is Prana Shakti (Power of Spiritus). All other goddesses stem from her.

    Then among those Goddesses, we have Bhuvaneshvari, quite an uncommon name, but interesting as She is the Goddess of Space. Space is First Matter, the root of all elements. Vulgar elements are only condensated Space (Bhuvaneshvari).

    This introduces us to a capital topic of Tantra, as:

    Bhuvaneshvari is Prakriti.

    Now there are 2 important principles in Tantra, again:

    -Prakriti

    -Purusha.

    Prakriti is called primordial Nature, First Matter, it's the subtle substance by which all bodies are composed. It is the essential material, and contains in Power all different qualities. (Sattva Rajas and Tamas, Mercurius, Sulphure, Sale). Prakriti is extremely subtle, but it contains the seed of objectivity.

    Purusha, known as Atman, or the Self, is pure consciousness existing above objects words and experiences. This Self is not ego, but pure Shakti, the Power, not separated, but it's the origin of Prakriti.

    I will skip all the chakra-related infos because everyone knows unfortunately about them. But not many know about the Amrita Nadi, an esoteric channel descending from the Crown chakra and goes straight to the Heart. This is the immortal channel, or Atma Nadi. They say when a Yogi is at his Highest experience, his brain secretes a fluid called Amrita, which acts deeply on his consciousness. Indian alchemists have even found its chemical composition .

    There are also many more aspects like the three Spiritual Energies, which are involved in a quite large doctrine, with very detailed spiritual, social, medical aspects...:

    Prana Tejas and Ojas.

    Still related to our Mercury Sun and Moon etc.. This would be a nice topic to expand, also for all the spagyric pharmaceutic practitioners out there. (Below i suggest an author explaining this concepts if you are interested)

    There is plenty and plenty of philosophy and practical applications of Tantra, so this is the reason why i got upset in reading 3 pages of nothing... Sex is just a part of common life.

    Much could be also said about Tantric more specific alchemical texts, and they have a huge literature, just often not translated to a western language, mostly you find it in Tamil language.

    Many great poems, and spagyrical and iatrochemical books. Just think of Rasa Jala Nidhi, the quintessence of indian iatrochemistry (and some Philosophy in it as well).

    Indians for example know the difference between mercuric chloride and Living corrosive sublimate... And that ayurvedical-rasasastra knowledge, as well as Tantra, have the same origin: ancient Alchemy of the indian Rishis (sages).

    It is interesting though, that indian alchemists usually study Paracelsus, Basilius, and the other Adepts of european tradition.

    WHY? Is a very good question, and they have a very intelligent answer to this:

    ALCHEMY IS ONE, what indian texts have hidden, europeans have spoken of, and viceversa.

    Of course, then, to make a comparison through the internet infos is quite difficult because there is much crap, but there are always some good pearls waiting for us there. (especially for those who know how to use google translator). Even in this Forum of Alchemy, there are a few selected very nice procedures, and hints, on the pratical lab way. Which we could actually discuss firther, i would be very happy to do that, because sometimes the only difference is the language spoken.

    If i may give a good advice,if anybody wants to inform on the good side of Tantra, is to check the author called: David Frawley, one of the very few western teachers of the vedic and tantric traditions truly and officially recognised as valuable. (he has many several titles and prices attributed to him by several indian vedic, yoga, and jyotish national associations....). And regarding alchemical and spagyrical indian texts, if anybody wishes to know more, i may send you per email something by true tantric local Tamil Nadu alchemists. (the few texts available in english at least, we miss the most traditional classic texts unfortunately)

    Then, many aspects may also be discussed...

    For example the concept of Amuri, which has been translated as Mercury by the indian adepts. There is not only One Form Of It. One may find it in vegetables, they developed quite a lot this path searching it in fullmoon nights in banana trees, and it can be also seen in european alchemy (check some chelidonia juice derivates...or any "essential salt" by the post Renaissance authors, F.G.Borri for example). But one can also obtain it by other ways, quite similar to the Cyliani path, which if well made (not exactly as "Cylianis" did) is the most similar to our brain's spiritual secretion...

    This is my general and personal opinion on the topic. It is based on our family culture i grew in, the many exchanges i have with an indian companion in this art, and the one i ecountered in my travels to the Ashram (spiritual community, meaning a Holy place, with many monks and families and visitors) where a true Saint lives and makes real benefit to the world wide community... i know that many psyheads, and people from rainbow gathering scene and the like will very much disagree with me on this whole post.

    World is beautiful for all the differences, right?

    I hope that we all may enlarge our vision, i will try to consider sex magick ;-)

    (btw, this is my post number 69) ;-)

    Best regards, and wishes of happiness to you all.
    Last edited by Argento Vivo; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:16 PM.

  5. #25
    Follow the Ten Commandments, and everything will be added unto you.

    This is also my 69th post.
    Last edited by Uncle Scrooge; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:55 PM.
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