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Thread: apologia - in defence of the illuminati :)

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    apologia - in defence of the illuminati :)

    LOL! Now I've done it!
    I'd like to be judged by a jury of my peers.
    Anyone?

    Devil's advocate: In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position. It can also refer to someone who takes a stance that is seen as unpopular or unconventional, but is actually another way of arguing a much more conventional stance. - wikipedia

    And we have the Catholic church to thank for this wonderful term!

    I'm not associated with any group or school or organisation. I'm not a member of any masons
    or Illuminati or anything like that. I'm just sharing the view from a place of not-knowing.

    What is the Illuminati? Who really knows?
    I imagine it is a group of well-educated and well financed people who have some knowledge
    and opinions about how the world should be, or simply have the power to lead it towards
    what they want.

    Is anyone really denied this knowledge? Doesn't it make sense that if they can manipulate
    masses, they must "know themselves"? Otherwise how would they sell us what we want/need
    if they didn't know us? and know more than us?

    If they know more than us, how do you know your idea of right and good is better than theirs?

    Can they really be such masters of the material and so poor in spirit? I don't think so.
    I think this is the common view held of them, but it doesn't add up for me.
    The more magical I become, the more I understand these things.
    I choose not to influence others, save by sharing and being myself.
    That doesn't make everyone else wrong.
    This whole idea of good and bad or white and black magic is relative BS.
    God is One. All magic comes from one source: magic is simply knowing/science (latin scientia = knowledge).
    Making fire was once magical. Flying metal ships once seemed magical. Electricity was once magical...


    Anyway, I don't know or have beliefs about who the Illuminati are or whether they are right or wrong.
    If it's happening, then it's happening. That's as much as i know.
    And All that ever happens is God, so I'm not worried about it.
    If I had a problem with people knowing more than me, then I guess I would study more
    instead of asking/blaming them to know less.
    If i don't want people controlling me, I just learn to control myself.
    It's not up to others to give me what I want.
    This is a world of agreements - a world of individuals and collectives.
    Government (overt or covert) is a manifestation of that fact.
    It's not right or wrong.
    If you don't understand that, you don't "deserve" a better place...
    That understanding IS a better place.
    The Youniverse is set up this way - see for yourself.
    No one is forcing anyone to comply; even if you don't like the option of being murdered -
    you still have a choice. You live in a world that martyrs have influenced, but you don't
    want to be the martyr? I understand. That's your choice. Be happy with it. It is yours.
    You are free to choose it. Why complain?

    I know I'm walking on the edge here. Don't be offended. I'm just one voice.
    You can ignore me or admire me. It doesn't matter.
    You might say I'm very opinionated when it comes to blaming others or assuming responsibility
    for oneself. Or you might say I'm arguing for your Godself.
    I've just seen some principles, and this is one: "You cannot change what you are not willing to
    assume responsibility for." That should be obvious/apparent, but it's not. Weird.
    So when you blame another, you GIVE them the power. Is this what an intelligent
    person would practice? Giving power to people and ideas they disagree with?
    If you don't want to be asleep/a sheep then wake up to what you are doing with your intention.
    I promise you "they" know this. And obviously they are not breaking any universal laws by
    taking advantage of the fact. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's one option among billions.

    Anyway, the more magical/intentional I become, I often find myself understanding what the
    Illuminati is, because I am coming into the option of power myself. Any group of magicians
    is an "Illuminati". I'm sure some of them battle eachother all the time for supremacy.
    Battles within battles to hide who is at the top of the pyramid.
    The Illuminati is hardly at the top. I'm sure they'd love for you to think so.
    If you have an opinion of how the world SHOULD be, then you are not unlike them.
    If you seek agreement, then you seek your own little cult, which may one day become a big
    cult or government or religion.
    Whose Utopia is the right one? Whose New World Order? Everyone has opinions.
    Try not to get caught up in it. What you resist persists.
    If you know yourself, you know how to be free of Illuminati.
    Or how to be in the world and not of it.
    Or how to respect the rules of the house without necessarily agreeing with them...
    All conditions are equal when compared to the unconditioned.
    It really doesn't matter what world I live in. I am free.
    I freed myself. No one did it for me.
    I didn't, nor do I, ask anyone's agreement on the matter of my freedom.
    All of you are free as well.
    You're even free not to know that you are free.
    What will you do with your freedom?
    Fight? Complain? Seek agreement? Seek disagreement? Be in peace?

    I love you.

    I wonder how many times the Illuminati has saved the planet? Maybe? I don't know.
    I do know the earth is here now, so they haven't destroyed it like everyone seems worried about.
    The earth is higher on the pyramid than the Illuminati.
    But then Jesus was higher than Pontias Pilate.
    According to the myth, he didn't deny that he was one with God to save his own ass/body.
    Peter, on the other hand, denied Christ three times to save his ass.
    We're all free to choose our physical bodies over our spiritual bodies, or vice-versa.
    The earth is free to choose too.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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    Castaneda's don Juan said, "When you're in the tonal world, you should be an impeccable tonal; there is no time for irrational garbage.
    But when you are in the nagual world, you should also be impeccable; there is no time for rational shit..."

    The Illuminati certainly seem to have mastered the tonal world.
    What reasons do we have to believe they're not masters of the Nagual world?
    How would you possibly begin to judge what a master of the Nagual world would be like?
    Rationality does not exist there.

    What if they are capable of playing games AND being free; being impeccable in both worlds?
    I just played pool yesterday. It didn't upset my freedom.
    I have an ego/tonal, but it isn't all that I am.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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    My whole point of this thread is that if you believe in an Illuminati with
    nefarious designs on you and the world, then you are subjectively living
    in that world and influencing others to live in it as well.
    Maybe that's the whole problem.
    The Illuminati might not even exist.
    Your version of the Illuminati may not be accurate.
    Maybe you are the sorcerer, spreading all this propaganda.

    If you want freedom, start spreading that message - that we are all already free.
    If you want a more loving, respectful world, spread that message.
    Stop spreading how the Illuminati is making everything terrible.
    It's not true anyway - not if you know yourself.
    You are God. You're the only one doing anything to you.
    Some call that the observer effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)
    Some call it freedom or dreaming or the freedom to dream.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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    I've heard the argument that the observer effect, or uncertainty principle,
    takes care of the subjective, but what about the objective world?
    It's great that I can live in a perfect subjective world, but what about
    the injustices going on in the external world?

    Well, first, I've no reason or proof to believe in an external objective world.
    The observer effect is proof/evidence to the contrary.
    What proof is there that the world is other than subjective?
    Obviously if it wasn't subjective, we would all agree on one objective world.
    That's not my experience or yours. Will you deny experience?
    If you deny experience, no wonder people take advantage of you.
    You've made yourself available.
    Like people having fun at the expense of a hypnotised person... aren't you "guilty" of it?

    Second, "as within, so without".
    Does it really seem more reasonable to change the whole world first and then yourself?
    What other option is there? Why not try it and see what happens to the "external" world?
    It's easier than trying to change the whole world. It can be done in one lifetime, unlike
    changing the whole world...

    Third, there is an objective world. But the subjective ego/mind cannot know it.
    Free yourself of subjectivity and then we'll talk about it. Until then, it only exists
    as a subjective idea in your subjective imagination.
    I've never met anyone who used the words "objective imagination". I'd like to meet them.

    The physical world is the conditioned world. It is conditioned by subjectivity. The objective
    world is unconditioned, thus there isn't much to say about it. One certainly wouldn't imagine
    that the Illuminati is f***ing up the unconditioned world. Just as wise, one wouldn't imagine
    someone else is f***ing up the subjective world.

    This wisdom leads to the unavoidable conclusion that there are no victims or tyrants in any real
    world, subjective or objective. They are therefore the imagined products of a confused mind -
    a mind which con-fuses the subjective and objective into one insane illusory world.
    It's ok. We all do it. Insanity is a prerequisite for this place. Sanity is optional.
    Hey! I just made a new quote!
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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    The Illuminati belong to a time in which "Secret Organizations" became the shape in which the revolutionaries organized themselves.
    i.e, the independences of most countries in the American Continent were organized by revolutionaries who organized themselves in lodges.
    This is probably because they felt that they were free to talk about dangerous ideas under an oath of secrecy.
    Then again, this is very much the same thing that the Ku Klux Klan did.
    (yeah, there were left wing and right wing organizations).

    Most of these lodges had nothing "spiritual" in them, they were simply political organizations that simply had a "ritual" and "initiations" to create cohesion.

    Some Organizations nowadays still have the "nostalgia" of those times... but the world isn't ruled by that kind of "secret organizations" nowadays.

    To be honest, my opinion is that "Secret Organization" that work with "initiations" and have "rituals" and whose only aim is to have political influence... are quite laughable nowadays.... and a lot of organizations were spoiled when they decided to take that path.

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    This may be an interesting reading for some: The Occult Technology Of Power.

    Although most likely a work of fiction, it may nevertheless be very educational IMO.

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    Anyway, the more magical/intentional I become, I often find myself understanding what the
    Illuminati is, because I am coming into the option of power myself. Any group of magicians
    is an "Illuminati". I'm sure some of them battle eachother all the time for supremacy.
    Battles within battles to hide who is at the top of the pyramid.
    The Illuminati is hardly at the top. I'm sure they'd love for you to think so.
    If you have an opinion of how the world SHOULD be, then you are not unlike them.
    If you seek agreement, then you seek your own little cult, which may one day become a big
    cult or government or religion.
    Whose Utopia is the right one? Whose New World Order? Everyone has opinions.
    Try not to get caught up in it. What you resist persists.
    If you know yourself, you know how to be free of Illuminati.
    Or how to be in the world and not of it.
    Or how to respect the rules of the house without necessarily agreeing with them...
    All conditions are equal when compared to the unconditioned.
    It really doesn't matter what world I live in. I am free.
    I freed myself. No one did it for me.
    I didn't, nor do I, ask anyone's agreement on the matter of my freedom.
    All of you are free as well.
    You're even free not to know that you are free.
    What will you do with your freedom?
    Fight? Complain? Seek agreement? Seek disagreement? Be in peace?
    I agree with this, and I love you too Solomon Levi.

    To be honest, my opinion is that "Secret Organization" that work with "initiations" and have "rituals" and whose only aim is to have political influence... are quite laughable nowadays....
    Zoas, I'm having a hard time making sense of why you think these groups who conspire to have influence over those who have influence over the masses is laughable nowadays. Was it ok a hundred or a thousand years ago, but nowadays it's not cool?

    I think everyone forgets one of the first stories they learn when studying philosophy. Socrates was made to drink the poison hemlock for corrupting the youth. The system that is in place now is basically the same system that was in place then. Socrates drank that shit because he was waking people up, but he wasn't just waking up the average citizens... he was waking up aristocratic children, and that was dangerous. So he felt obliged to drink that stuff. We live in a society where more than half the average citizens have below average IQ. The school system is designed to make parrots. The fuckin skies are being blasted with chemicals, and no one really knows or cares about it... hell, no one even really bothers to look up. We can say that we have a choice to be free and see things for how they really are, but the bridge to that freedom is in need of repair and is falling apart.

    When someone shines a light on a certain area and wants you to only know what exists in that area the light is shown... that is illumination. Pay no attention to all the stuff outside of the light children, just look at what we want you to see. Illumination or enlightenment?

    Anyone else here a fan of Robert Anton Wilson???


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    The Illuminati - hmmmm. Whats to say? Are there illuminated beings? Sure. Do they get together and consipire on all sorts of petty egoshit? I doubt it. Ego dominate idiots conspire for power and money. I would suggest that genuinely illuminated beings have more important things to do. There are a lot of pretenders who aside from being potentially violent and dangerous and ego driven, want to be perceived as powerfull by reason of illumination. Most of the secret societies are just plain silly with handshakes, rings and ties and crap to identify each other. I would say that all those things are indicative of fakery at one level or another. We can build a structure in which meaning alternates at each level, fake, fake to mislead members, fake to mislead public but not memebers, hiding the real within the obvious fake. Who knows what any of it means.

    So where is the organization of Bodisatvas. Or is that an oxymoron? Why would they need an organization? What would they do if they had a group? Have dinner and a prayer circle once a year? They know why they are here. Do they EVER need to talk about it? Do they ever need to gather in person? Why?

    They certainly don't need to talk about how great they are or worldy power.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital View Post
    Zoas, I'm having a hard time making sense of why you think these groups who conspire to have influence over those who have influence over the masses is laughable nowadays. Was it ok a hundred or a thousand years ago, but nowadays it's not cool?
    Yeah. Times change.

    I can give you an easy example with an organization we all probably hate a lot, but that may offer a good example: the KKK.

    When the KKK was created, its structure, initiations, use of semi-masonic rituals, regalia, etc... probably made sense. I mean, it's not that I think the KKK was good, I simply mean that it made sense for those who were racists in America to organize themselves using that type of structure.

    Nowadays the KKK still exists, mostly based on nostalgia. But, as an organization, it even makes most of the white suprematists feel ashamed.

    Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against the so called "secret organizations"... but I think that nowadays it is stupid to have any of them working specially on politics... and that other means are by far better these days.

    It may not make sense to you, but it's a fact that times change and that some things that made sense in the past don't make sense these days. A perfect example of another type came to my mind:

    I do REALLY love the Animal Liberation Front... but I do also think that the ALF needs to change a lot nowadays.

    When the ALF was created the idea was to have a non-centralized organization working with autonomous cells that, among other things, were able to destroy the property of the industries that injured or killed animals. That was perceived as cool in the 70's... the actions of the ALF were even used as "propaganda".
    The year 2001 and the World Trade Center and the rise of "Islamic Terrorism" made anything that looks in any way close to "terrorist strategies" look pretty bad.
    So some of the typical actions of the ALF looked pretty good back in the 70's... and they were even a good propaganda for the Animal Rights movement... but nowadays the perceptions have changed a lot.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    times change and [...] some things that made sense in the past don't make sense these days.
    I'll just quote myself quoting (on another thread) a relevant quote from a movie that quotes from a book

    From 'The Way of the Samurai' (a.k.a. 'Hagakure'), as seen in the movie 'Ghost Dog':

    It is said that what is called "the spirit of an age" is something to which one cannot return.
    That this spirit gradually dissipates is due to the world's coming to an end.
    For this reason, although one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done.
    Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation.

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