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Thread: General Comments on Alchemical Texts

  1. #21
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    I find that the best authors tend to have layers where little tips and tricks pop out at you when you've gotten the context to understand them. But certainly once you've made the stone complete, anything else becomes unnecessary.
    From separation between the seen and the unseen, a feeling of distance.
    From separation between the seen and the seen, a feeling of breadth.
    From separation between the unseen and the unseen, a feeling of depth.
    From rotation of the elements, a feeling of motion.
    From the equivalence of alternate rotations, a feeling of choice.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    McLean has made considerable contributions to the field of alchemy, and as of late, to tarot. His analysis of texts does tend to stay on the 'safe side' but one can easily build upon his method, if the right intent and perseverance is there. I do know that I have also seen him be 'off target' (i.e., redrawing of Plate 7) especially when dealing with Crowning of Nature, my most beloved of all manuscripts. I prefer the Barchusen Series, in some regards over his.

    My experiences lead me to say that if he advanced his analysis (viz., interpretations) in parallel with laboratory work, he would perhaps change some of the comments he made in the past. To only interpret intellectually, and without self or tutor initiations, one can easily fumble around, and miss tiny clues.

    For me, in the greater scheme of things, it is all learning and can be beneficial.
    I think Krisztian here has made the most important point in the discussion, in that only through the laboratory can the sheep ultimately be sorted from the goats, or the truth from the fantasy. The academic, historical or psychological study of alchemy alone will never produce a true understanding but many apparent illusory illuminations seem to occur, until they are put to the practical test. I don’t know how many times I was totally convinced and excited that I was on the ‘right’ path, only to face disappointment in the laboratory. Nevertheless, each ‘failure’ caused me to reread, reject or reinterpret some classical text, so that an ongoing informed feedback between the theoria and praxis over several years enabled me greater discernment in separating the truth from the disinformation in the classics.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebus7 View Post
    I think Krisztian here has made the most important point in the discussion, in that only through the laboratory can the sheep ultimately be sorted from the goats, or the truth from the fantasy. The academic, historical or psychological study of alchemy alone will never produce a true understanding but many apparent illusory illuminations seem to occur, until they are put to the practical test. I don’t know how many times I was totally convinced and excited that I was on the ‘right’ path, only to face disappointment in the laboratory. Nevertheless, each ‘failure’ caused me to reread, reject or reinterpret some classical text, so that an ongoing informed feedback between the theoria and praxis over several years enabled me greater discernment in separating the truth from the disinformation in the classics.
    I couldn't agree more. I've had to let go of a few pet theories as a result of experimentation, and I've discovered new unexpected approaches as a result of experimentation. But experimentation in the first place is totally useless without first having a very sound basis of the theory behind the texts.

  4. #24
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    For me, in the greater scheme of things, it is all learning and can be beneficial.
    I agree! And thank you all for the further clarifications, this is helpful to me.

    There is another thing I am curious about now though, since it has come up. I guess that I have been under the impression that maybe the work keeps going in a sense, even after the Stone is accomplished, when I read suggestions such as: "Even thus saith Hermes: Through long years I have not ceased to experiment, neither have I have spared any labour of mind, " or, "... (unless thou make Gold to be thy final object, and so thou shalt never come hither) that thou art but now come into the Mystical School of the hidden wonders of God, in which thou mayst every day see new Miracles, if thou be studious and desirable of knowledge..." There also seems to be quite a bit of documentation on different ways of creating or perfecting things like Mercury, or perfecting and improving a process that was initially used for achieving a particular goal, like maybe sublimation. And they kind of strike me as experimentations performed after achieving the Stone, which gives me the impression that I might actually hang onto those texts for a while, even after reaching the perceived goal.

    When I reflect on my experience so far, I have noted a few areas that I would like to go back and explore or improve upon, once I get a better handle on things and my focus is freed up a bit.

    Have I been reading the wrong books? Or perhaps I am misinterpreting what I am reading due to a lack of understanding?

    Is there a consensus regarding which classical texts or authors should be rejected, and which ones are in fact genuine?

    And as an aside, I hope I am not coming off as trying to test anyone or push my own ideas forward... I honestly live in a perpetual state of seeking out my own flaws and errors in judgement so that I can amend them. This forum just felt like a good place to find some light.

  5. #25
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    You will never run out of new media into which you may project and multiply the stone. The more new things you find, the more they are one thing. The more everything is one thing, the more new things you find.
    _____________________________________

    Mod note: Things kind of drifted off-topic from here on, so this is continued on a new spin-off thread: States, Cycles & Projections of the ONE 'Making Matter' (and Stone)
    Last edited by Andro; 03-09-2013 at 04:11 AM. Reason: Continued discussion moved to new spin-off thread.
    From separation between the seen and the unseen, a feeling of distance.
    From separation between the seen and the seen, a feeling of breadth.
    From separation between the unseen and the unseen, a feeling of depth.
    From rotation of the elements, a feeling of motion.
    From the equivalence of alternate rotations, a feeling of choice.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheomode View Post
    There is another thing I am curious about now though, since it has come up. I guess that I have been under the impression that maybe the work keeps going in a sense, even after the Stone is accomplished. . . .
    The Lapis is only a catalyst, a beginning, 'a gear shift' of sort, that will now shift the body in and out of this reality here [at will]. For whatever "here" means is also quite likely not what people think here is.

    The Lapis is a very highly condensed form of energy.

    As one eats the fruits of the Other Side [to be poetic] more and more, this here reality, one can say the physicality of it, loses its attraction, and so you take your body with you. So that one can come back without actual painful and traumatizing birth again. Not to promote again Crowning of Nature but in some manuscript versions it is also called Opus Angelorum! Which very much at least to me promotes the theory that one joins the "angels". Regrettably though that word in reality is likely also quite different than what traditionally people believed.

    Fulcanelli was the only alchemist I recall discussing similar notions. Someone, much more tech savvy Forum member than I, would probably easily find that section somewhere?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheomode View Post
    Lol.. for the Love of All that is Good and Right in the Universe, do NOT use books as coasters! You can send them to me instead, c/o Jen, at the Classical Alchemical Text Preservation Fund, or, CATFP. I will see that they find good homes.

    Honestly.. did you not hold a poll here on the Greatest Alchemist? Looks like a list of classical alchemists to me (although I couldn't help but notice the absence of Eirenaeus Philalethes..), what on earth were your criteria for selection? Who wore the best wig? Who had the biggest alembick? Who, iyho, actually produced gold ?
    lol!
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel Matina View Post
    You will never run out of new media into which you may project and multiply the stone. The more new things you find, the more they are one thing. The more everything is one thing, the more new things you find.
    the more you know, the more you realise how little you know, and how much more infinite infinity is.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  9. #29
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    the more you know, the more you realise how little you know, and how much more infinite infinity is.
    This is one of my favorite things about the journey, I get one answer and suddenly either 15 new questions sprout, or a few I was in possession of become larger in scope. It's really enjoyable

    The Lapis is only a catalyst, a beginning, 'a gear shift' of sort, that will now shift the body in and out of this reality here [at will]. For whatever "here" means is also quite likely not what people think here is.
    Thank you for this, it echoes my current perceptions. And double thanks for bringing the Crowning of Nature back into my view! That was actually one of the first manuscripts that reached me and it's amazing to come back to it now. I went looking around after you mentioned plate 7, and can I ask you, is this the version of plate that you mention preferring:

    http://archive.org/stream/johannisco.../n541/mode/1up

    I noticed in Klossowski de Rola's Secret Art book, that he includes another version of this plate from a manuscript from the Biblioteque de l'Arsenal in which the lion is not breathing fire, nor does it have the three tufts on the tail.

    Really interesting, all the slight variations between these plates.

    ~Jen

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheomode View Post
    Thank you for this, it echoes my current perceptions. And double thanks for bringing the Crowning of Nature back into my view! That was actually one of the first manuscripts that reached me and it's amazing to come back to it now. I went looking around after you mentioned plate 7. . . .Really interesting, all the slight variations between these plates.
    It is my opinion that including the black toad on Plate 7 (left out on Mclean's version; Plate 14 in Burchusen's, de Rola just copied) shows where the matter is to be at this conjunction. I saw the black leathery skin of the toad at this stage in the flask. I only know that because laboratory work accompanies my theoretical. For a researcher who's only theoretical, it makes sense to leave out the black toad, and only mention "The Green Lion", as did Mclean.

    Plates were originally woodcut in 16th century; modern versions are then redrawn and certain details don't make it or it receives new embellishments.

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