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Thread: Anyone read Dobb's works on Newton?

  1. #11
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    Great website! I love the artwork at the top of the page, that's gorgeous piece, whatever it is I run across Silberer's book every now and again and I still haven't read it, but I definitely want to at some point... I remember reading something about this sadness before, it may have been in Jung's autobiography.

    And I dunno... I kind of feel that I got a pretty decent glimpse into Jung via his Red Book, but! I have not yet read any of his lectures, so I leave the verdict open on this one.

  2. #12
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    hi rheomode. i didn't see your last post before. yeah, Newton's amazing. i read a couple books by Newman and Principe. here's a video at bottom of page you might enjoy.
    http://heterodoxology.com/2012/10/10...-whiggishness/
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  3. #13
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    another vid, newton's dark secrets:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmhPfGo3fE
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  4. #14
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    Thanks for the links! I watched as much as I could of each of them (my time for watching things on screens is limited), the documentary was fun and seems to be overview of material you can find in the biographies, and Newman certainly has an interesting angle.. although I have a hard time shaking the suspicion that these scholars and scientists are still missing the forest for the trees. An awful lot of scoffing going on there

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheomode View Post
    Fantastic coincidence I would be happy to have any kind of discussion about this book that interests you, I am 1/3 of the way through it, and am finding it really enjoyable, it's an amazing window into that time period, as well as a dangerously comprehensive bibliography of this era (dangerous to the bank account that is...).

    And thanks much for the quote, this does seem to support her view directly. If you find more about this from Jung in the future, feel free to share, I'll be here for a while. I am curious about the "lack of self-awareness" or "too much insight into his own psyche" ideas. I suppose a better understanding of Jung's exploration would shed light on this :-)
    Here is another quote from Volume 12 of Jung's Collected Works (pages 278-279), which more directly addresses the ideas you mention above:

    "But, just because of this intermingling of the physical and the psychic, it always remains an obscure point whether the ultimate transformations in the alchemical process are to be sought more in the material or more in the spiritual realm. Actually, however, the question is wrongly put: there was no 'either-or' for that age, but there did exist an intermediate realm between mind and matter, i.e., a psychic realm of subtle bodies whose characteristic it is to manifest themselves in a mental as well as a material form. This is the only view that makes sense of alchemical ways of thought, which must otherwise appear nonsensical. Obviously, the existence of this intermediate realm comes to a sudden stop the moment we try to investigate matter in and for itself, apart from all projection; and it remains non-existent so long as we believe we known anything conclusive about matter or the psyche. But the moment when physics touches on the 'untrodden, untreadable regions,' and when psychology has at the same time to admit that there are other forms of psychic life besides the acquisitions of personal consciousness - in other words, when psychology too touches on an impenetrable darkness - then the intermediate realm of subtle bodies comes to life again, and the physical and the psychic are once more blended in an indissoluble unity."

    Illen

  6. #16
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    I love what was being realised in these quotes.
    I think there is still the tunnel vision though.
    Alchemy is "as above so below, etc".
    It always surprises me when people verify that principle and think
    that specialised area is all alchemy is about.
    Psychology is pretty encompassing though... near the root, if not the root.
    Consider Ouspensky:
    "I SHALL speak about the study of psychology, but I must warn you
    that the psychology about which I speak is very different from
    anything you may know under this name.
    To begin with I must say that practically never in history has
    psychology stood at so low a level as at the present time. It has lost
    all touch with its origin and its meaning so that now it is even
    difficult to define the term psychology: that is, to say what
    psychology is and what it studies. And this is so in spite of the fact
    that never in history have there been so many psychological
    theories and so many psychological writings.
    Psychology is sometimes called a new science. This is quite
    wrong. Psychology is, perhaps, the oldest science, and,
    unfortunately, in its most essential features a forgotten science.
    In order to understand how psychology can be denned it is
    necessary to realise that psychology except in modern times has
    never existed under its own name. For one reason or another
    psychology always was suspected of wrong or subversive tendencies.
    either religious or political or moral and had to use different
    disguises..."
    read more here if you like:
    http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Eb..._Evolution.pdf
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

  7. #17
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    Fantastic, this excerpt nails it! And really interesting as well, Jung certainly analyzed the hell out of all of this, and I am in perpetual awe of his personal discoveries and body of work. Although honestly, most of the time I'm reading him, I'm like, "Yeah.. totally, yeah.. totally, yeah.. totally, wait.. what?"

    And I couldn't agree more Solomon, it seems that the more you try to rationally nail down and define the alchemical process, the further you push yourself away from actually apprehending it

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheomode View Post
    it seems that the more you try to rationally nail down and define the alchemical process, the further you push yourself away from actually apprehending it
    Actually, Alchemical processes can be regarded as quite rational and logical. But they are also much more than that, as well.

    It's most people who aren't rational, despite what they keep telling themselves...

    Said one Dark Warlord of the 20th century: “I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.”

    BTW, he also said: “As in everything, nature is the best instructor.”

    (at least try to evaluate those quotes outside their historical context)

  9. #19
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    I get you In my experience so far, I drive what I can of the rational aspect via scientific working and observations into my process, but it's when I rest and shut down that rational side that the illuminations filter in, you know, balance. That's what I was thinking of when my mouth shot off. I expect I am sharing nothing that you aren't already aware of.. that or I am completely crazy. I frequently suspect the latter.

    (at least try to evaluate those quotes outside their historical context)
    Give me time And unfair! How are these selections analogous... so, my view is likely due my experience (see above), but I don't understand why texts designed to transmit transcendent wisdom would require a knowledge of historical context.. wisdom is wisdom is wisdom. If I were wise and had something amazing to share that would help people find a way to free themselves from the trappings of the mundane, I would want to organize it in a way so that it could reach as many people as possible, for as long as possible. I guess that's kind of why I find the 17th c manuscripts so brilliant, it seems like they kind of achieved this via the imagery and verbiage they chose, in a way that sidesteps historical context.

    Maybe? I bet Newton thought so

  10. #20
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    Originally Posted by Rheomode
    it seems that the more you try to rationally nail down and define the alchemical process, the further you push yourself away from actually apprehending it

    i think this is pretty accurate. i wrote something about fleeing mercury somewhere that makes similar points. it flees the grasping hand. the mercurial serpent must be 'nailed down' to a hollow oak.
    http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/

    "To conjure is nothing else than to observe anything rightly, to know and understand what it is." - Paracelsus

    "Why, then, don't you act when you see the danger of your conditioning? The answer is you don't see... seeing is acting." J. Krishnamurti

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