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Thread: Alchemy and Megalomania

  1. #11
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    Perhaps one needs to look at motivation; it is only the individual that can be motivated by their
    inner feelings; all other types of motivation are temporary.

    For instance, to motivate another by reward one must keep raising the reward of the reward loses
    its appeal.

    To motivate another through threat, the threat must be maintained, but the threatened will
    rebel given the chance.

    So to motivate another you have to make them believe what you want is good for them or that it is
    what they want...perhaps a bit more than just want as I want many things that I am not motivated
    enough to obtain.

    However there are those that like to lead, those that like to follow and those that don't give a shit
    either way.

    There are those that like to lead who should be followers, those that like to follow that should be
    leaders, and those that don't give a shit either way.

    Then there are those who are followed and are unaware, those that led and are unaware, but those
    who don't give a shit are usually not followed or easily led.

    I have no desire to lead and certainly no desire to follow, so does that mean I don't give a shit?



    Ghislain

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghislain View Post
    I have no desire to lead and certainly no desire to follow
    There's a difference between leadership and megalomania, they're not necessarily a package deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghislain View Post
    So does that mean I don't give a shit?
    There's that saying - "Lead, follow or get out of the way".

    I think it's an army/corporate thing.

    I somehow feel it might not apply to you

    I think you can live your life to your satisfaction without leading or following, while still giving a shit or two

    But ultimately, only you can answer that

  3. #13
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    Mental Health

    Some of the struggles can also be attributed to mental health issues. Some are born with an already chemically-imbalanced brain, that's difficult to manage throughout life, especially when people tend to have little self-awareness.

    Mania is only one aspect. Personality disorders (i.e., Borderline, Narcissistic, etc.) are almost always don't get recognized. Aside from 'free will', motivation, and other concepts, people with mental health can easily be and are victims of their own biological inheritance.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    people with mental health can easily be and are victims of their own biological inheritance.
    Apart from admitting there is a problem (which can be the hardest part), are there ways to remedy this, possibly apart from medication?

    Of course, if we're talking specifically about the Alchemist 'brand' of megalomania/narcissism/etc - then IMO it only shows how questionable the alchemical progress really is...

    Or when dealing with 'Ormus' (I'm not a fan, but that's just me) and some people who make/promote it, it has been said that 'Ormus' only amplifies one's natural/inherent qualities/tendencies, so if there is a pathology present, 'Ormus' may (allegedly) amplify it...

    But here (in this thread) we are dealing specifically with such tendencies in the Alchemical community.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by III View Post
    I guess that makes me unique, from a long line of nobodies.
    III,

    Care to elaborate, please?

    What makes you "unique, from a long line of nobodies" ?

  6. #16
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    Initiation

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Apart from admitting there is a problem (which can be the hardest part), are there ways to remedy this, possibly apart from medication?
    Maybe that's why the Ancients insisted that real gain (viz., internal and laboratory) can only be had by the assistance of an initiated alchemist [teacher]. If one listens carefully, then all of the megalomaniac claims come from uninitiated persons working alone [in the lab]. No feedback, in other words.

    I'm just thinking.

    My previous point about mental health was simply that people struggle with serious imbalances of the brain already, and when one lived with that circuitry their entire life, it's hard to know what's real and what's not, what's normal and what's mania.

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Of course, if we're talking specifically about the Alchemist 'brand' of megalomania/narcissism/etc - then IMO it only shows how questionable the alchemical progress really is...
    True. No feedback, then one is left to the sometimes delusional thinking (viz., unclaimed Shadow) of one's own mind. What I mean by 'initiated' is that the Shadow isn't running the show, or it's bypassed by various methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgynus View Post
    Or when dealing with 'Ormus' (I'm not a fan, but that's just me) and some people who make/promote it, it has been said that 'Ormus' only amplifies one's natural/inherent qualities/tendencies, so if there is a pathology present, 'Ormus' may (allegedly) amplify it...
    I see that with other products of spagyrics as well. I see that to be a reality, yes.

    It is the consciousness that's amplified, which is now captured in a material we call The Stone.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsblood View Post
    But the world would be so much more boring without the likes of David Icke.
    Icke doesn't fall under the Messiah/Megalomania issue at all. He repeatedly tells people not to believe him but to see for themselves. I never perceived Icke to behave like an Adept or Guru. He has his own agenda, but he is not trying to convert people claiming he is right and everyone else is wrong. He just puts down his thoughts and that's it. He also doesn't take himself so seriously. At least this is my experience of Icke.

    In fact Dawkins behaves more like a Megalomania than Icke does... ironic considering the fact that Dawkins is the most likely (logically thinking) to have the biggest chance of being RIGHT.

    Last edited by Awani; 02-18-2014 at 08:22 PM.
    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    For arguments sake here is an example from this website: http://www.alchemy.ws

    “alchemy.ws is the only source of true information about alchemy that exists in the world. This is a site for honest, genuine seekers of nature's secrets. Everyone else please go away.”
    It sounds like an advert to me. One supposed to be very dense, arrogant, and primitive not to feel the inappropriateness of that statement from the mouth of an adept. Is he really that dense? I don’t think so. After reading his book and taking a peek into his forum, he comes through more like someone with a definite agenda. Like someone paid to create confusion and deception to discredit alchemy in the eyes of the enthusiasts.

    The above advert is based on mass psychology. They target the masses not individuals. Few intelligent people with some alchemical studies behind you may recognize the trap straight away. But the majority of people are utterly lost after reading an old recipe or two, so they will start to seek modern versions and experts. Seeing that these experts are also contradicting each other most of the time, now they are desperate to find the “source of true information”. So it just makes good sense to offer them what they want. It is a good, old, time tested PR technique; “Offer them what they seek and you will surely attract them”. Does it feel awkward and megalomaniac? Sure, but they don’t care about that. The agenda, and the number of attracted people is more important than to worry about a fictitious Author’s internet personality fault.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by ChiNamo; 02-19-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    If one listens carefully, then all of the megalomaniac claims come from uninitiated persons working alone [in the lab]. No feedback, in other words.
    Keeping grounded becomes challenging as energy picks up and awareness expands, having someone to relate to is incredibly valuable and personally would have gone significantly (more?) off track without the honest feedback of others. Knowing the risks many of the old mystery schools thouroughly humiliated the candidate at initiations, a tradition that is still reflected in modern day college initations, stag nights, etc.

    Even if alone it is possible to solicit feedback - "In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him."

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisztian View Post
    Some of the struggles can also be attributed to mental health issues. Some are born with an already chemically-imbalanced brain, that's difficult to manage throughout life, especially when people tend to have little self-awareness.

    Mania is only one aspect. Personality disorders (i.e., Borderline, Narcissistic, etc.) are almost always don't get recognized. Aside from 'free will', motivation, and other concepts, people with mental health can easily be and are victims of their own biological inheritance.
    When going through Kundalini Awakening especially I think that is a possibility. My experience originally led me to believe that the best solution would be super-nutrition to ensure that one could keep the incredibly high brain/spinal voltage that seems to be required to live with the level of intensity one experiences with consciousness expanding experiences. Dopamine was my initial focus, but it is of course much more complex than that.

    The problem of course is that humility, as with arrogance/"experiencing ego", is a learned experience, not an innate one. Can we honestly say that either the humble person who claims they are just god's caretaker, or the egotist who believes in their own self-importance, have any more accurate appreciation of the situation than the other? For making decisions, it is useful to have a lessened self of self-importance as well as fear to prevent ones-self from negatively reacting against a perceived threat. However, in a different situation, increased appreciation of the importance of this or that life experience might be more useful. I'm reminded of this interaction between The Doctor and Rose:

    Rose: So what you’re saying is, the whole world revolves around you?
    The Doctor: Sort of, yeah.
    Rose: You’re full of it.
    The Doctor: Sort of, yeah.
    The ability to maintain at the same time that the whole world revolves around you, and that you're full of it. In a way any state of consciousness when amplified to a high enough degree could be seen as pathological.

    The key seems to be being able to make your thinking flexible enough to fit around corners. EFA's, for example, are really useful in developing quick thinking. The DHA molecule bends and changes shape a lot in response to environmental stimuli. The ability to speed up thought and reaction times by changing the diet you consume could potentially be the best defense against things like megalomania.

    As someone who does a lot of thinking, and experiences the negative side effects of too much ungated nervous energy, I can say that having the right mediums or mechanisms in place to keep that mental energy moving definitely helps to prevent stagnation and obsessive thought processes. One needs the energy there in the first place - thats where ATP, ketones etc come in - and then the substrate on which that dance takes place must be there.

    Also, on the spiritual side of things, meditation -- learning to control that energy which is moving through ones own body and causing the thoughts you're having -- becomes important not only as a tool of sanity, but as a tool for the conservation of energy which becomes necessary in order to accomplish greatness. I feel this aspect especially as a native with Sun square Saturn -- efficient mobilisation of your own energy reserves will completely change your own thought processes, since ones own energy levels and control over them relate psychologically to your own deeply root concepts of security/survival ("do I have enough energy/resources to survive?"), control (whether you feel your life is in control or not depends partially on the level of constant mental fluctuations), and emotional reality.

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