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Thread: Help with Beginning Theurgy?

  1. #1
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    Help with Beginning Theurgy?

    Hey all, not sure if I mentioned it in my intro but I've been skirting the concept of Theurgy for some time now (a few years), and I have an issue, I seem to be very adept at finsing information on the subject but next to useless at determining the order in which various practices should be performed and how they relate to one another. If anyone has some wisdom as to the overarching structure containing Kabbalah/Qabala, Enochian magic, Tarot, Goetia, astral projection, other forms of ritual magic, or other related topics are are willing to share it would be much appreciated. Alternately if anyone could point me to some reliable low-level sources that would be great too.

    I'm especially interested in being able to follow the practices put down in this text (http://hermetic.com/stavish/essays/secret-fire.html), which lists as its prerequisites, "at le[a]st one to two years of practical, daily experience with the Middle Pillar and/or Pentagram Rituals; in addition, an equal amount of time with the Hexagram Rituals. Several workings of the 32nd through 24th Paths on the Tree of Life would also be desirable[1], and regular practice of once a week or so of “Rising on the Planes”[2]." So if anyone has any info on those specific practices that would also be helpful.

    Tangent: I understand that as a user of this forum thus far I ask for much and promise little in return and I regret this. I feel I have nothing or little to offer and come here as one who has too much information and too little knowlage. That being said, if anyone feels I can help them in any way please feel free to ask.

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    Hmm well... it really depends on what your purpose is. You want to invoke a god or achieve a state of nirvana? I am aware that both these can be the same thing, but there are a lot of occultists that focus on the material manifestation of some sort of God. This is, IMO, a pointless endeavor. But to perfect ones own being is not.

    Perfecting oneself is what alchemy is about, so really not sure why we need this Theurgy word?

    Not sure if this is helpful, but you might enjoy it regardless: http://abrahadabra.com/2014/02/25/ku...-is-overrated/

    Good luck!

    Postscript: the only true theurgy I've ever encountered/experienced was ingesting ayahuasca.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #3
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    Did a quick search on secret fire and came up with these (although not sure the these threads contain anything that is helpful):


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Hmm well... it really depends on what your purpose is. You want to invoke a god or achieve a state of nirvana?
    To achieve a state of nirvana I suppose. But also to attempt to recieve visons/revelations. I figure the greatest source, as far as reliability goes, is the Source itself. If it is possible to tap directly into that to gain clarity and knowlage I want to find a way.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Perfecting oneself is what alchemy is about, so really not sure why we need this Theurgy word?
    As I understand it there are three semi-distinct hermetic arts, astrology, alchemy, and theurgy, each is independent but interelated, one must master all to master any.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Not sure if this is helpful, but you might enjoy it regardless: http://abrahadabra.com/2014/02/25/ku...-is-overrated/
    Not sure if it's helpful either, but certainly interesting, I'll have to try it out, thank you!



    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Postscript: the only true theurgy I've ever encountered/experienced was ingesting ayahuasca.
    I hope to do this as well some day, for now I only have access to shrooms and LSD.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Did a quick search on secret fire and came up with these (although not sure the these threads contain anything that is helpful):
    I'll read through but I have a feeling that there are many conceptions of what this secret fire is, and none may be clear.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Corlew View Post
    . . . I'm especially interested in being able to follow the practices put down in this text (http://hermetic.com/stavish/essays/secret-fire.html), which lists as its prerequisites, "at le[a]st one to two years of practical, daily experience with the Middle Pillar and/or Pentagram Rituals; in addition, an equal amount of time with the Hexagram Rituals. . .
    Why don't you contact Mark and ask about tutorship and guidance. He lives on East Coast as well, in Pennsylvania. He might still take on students. Go to the source.

    He's the best of the best when it comes to that area of Hermetica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Corlew View Post
    I understand that as a user of this forum thus far I ask for much and promise little in return and I regret this. I feel I have nothing or little to offer and come here as one who has too much information and too little knowlage. . .
    In the worse case, others will learn from your questioning and exploration.

    Love your humble approach!

  6. #6
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    I thought that I would point out a basic difference in magick, namely, theurgy vs. thaumaturgy, even though you specifically named theurgy. So, I've included the following. The second link points out a connection to "friendly spirits and gods," with regard to theurgy, but the third link illustrates an example of thaumaturgy, though from the 2nd link, one might think it was theurgy. Sometimes this dichotomy is made between High Magick vs. Low Magick, or Magick vs. Sorcery, or again White magic vs. Black Magick. I also see the dichotomy of Tanscendental Magick vs. Goetic Magick. Truly, Magick is a 'Gray' area, and the boundary seems to be whether the intention is for transcendence of the ego vs. aggrandizement of the ego.

    http://starweaverwitch.wordpress.com...d-thaumaturgy/

    http://wizardforums.com/showthread.php?tid=6708

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvbWNJbMD-w
    γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Corlew View Post
    I'll read through but I have a feeling that there are many conceptions of what this secret fire is, and none may be clear.
    Well sometimes it is best to figure shit out yourself. The best way to learn. Other people will only give you their perspective, in the end it is only YOUR perspective that matters.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  8. #8
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    So if anyone has any info on those specific practices that would also be helpful.
    I suggest you start with "Kabbalistic Handbook For The Practicing Magician: A Course in the Theory and Practice of Western Magic" by Joseph C. Lisiewski.

    You will find a detailed description of the rituals in "The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic" by Israel Regardie.

    Good luck

  9. #9
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    You might also like "The Magician: his training and work" by WE Butler. It also has a great bibliography

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Corlew View Post
    To achieve a state of nirvana I suppose. But also to attempt to recieve visons/revelations. I figure the greatest source, as far as reliability goes, is the Source itself. If it is possible to tap directly into that to gain clarity and knowlage I want to find a way.
    You should start a dream journal
    Or practice techniques to stimulate lucid dreaming. It was for me the fastest way to connect to the 'Source'. All be it did take awhile.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

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