The Reality of Illusion

[JDP]

The story of the World War II gunner who fell 22,000 feet without a parachute and lived

Vesna Vulovic, stewardess who survived 33,000ft fall

The man who fell 12,000 ft ... and survived

Skydiver survives 14,000 foot fall after his parachute and backup BOTH fail

It doesn't happen often, but it happens enough.

Luck, "god" listening to prayer... who knows... but NOTHING is set in stone... not even "sure death".

Those are indeed cases of incredible luck, they certainly don't happen often.

However the debate about "jumping off a cliff" is a clear indication that you do not understand what is being discussed, nor will you ever unless you clear your mind from play school arguments. We are talking about something deeper, mystical and mind altering... not about jumping off a cliff. It would be like I was trying to tell you that alchemy is bullshit, because it is just chemistry for pseudo-chemists... which in many cases it is.

It is you who doesn't quite understand it. "Jumping off a cliff" is a perfectly fitting experiment for the kind of bizarre claims you seem to believe in. If it is all an "illusion" then it should not be possible to predict the most likely outcome of such an action. Your Jedi-like reality-altering mind powers would change that reality and you would survive, and not by incredible one-of-a-kind luck, as in the above cited cases, but because you changed reality. It should also be repeatable. If we carried out the "experiment" again, you should be able to alter reality again and avoid the predictable outcome. Rest assured that reality is VERY real. Don't believe it? JUMP OFF A CLIFF. I dare you!

When people want to discuss ONE matter you jump in with your ideas. When people want to discuss the concepts of reality you jump in with your "jump off the cliff" angle.

Focus on your thing, and let others focus on theirs.

You still don't get it, do you? This is not a "my thing vs your thing", this is about THE EXACT SAME REALITY WE ALL LIVE IN, whether you like it or not. Your or mine "opinions" don't matter here. Reality doesn't care about them and it will continue to be what it always has been quite unworried by what we think of it. Reality is very democratic and egalitarian, it is the same for us all.

Why don't you give your spin on the above quote instead, and refrain from "jumping off cliff" arguments if you can.

Because unlike the "jumping off a cliff" arguments, the above is a bunch of nonsense that is happening in a dream-world setting, NOT in reality.

[Awani]

It is you who doesn't quite understand it. "Jumping off a cliff" is a perfectly fitting experiment for the kind of bizarre claims you seem to believe in. If it is all an "illusion" then it should not be possible to predict the most likely outcome of such an action.

Is every dream you ever have, every night, lucid? If not, why not?

Reality is very democratic and egalitarian, it is the same for us all.

Reality cannot be fully understood when inside it. Therefor reality is relative with similar rules, but since there are exceptions (like those survivors) nothing can be taken for granted.

...the above is a bunch of nonsense that is happening in a dream-world setting, NOT in reality.

You are aware that the scientific community is closer to my line of thinking, than yours... but I guess that makes sense since you believe in pseudo-chemistry... there is more mumbo-jumbo coming out your end than mine. LOL.

Besides it doesn't matter how many times I say it: the way you reply to my posts clearly indicate that you are not understanding what I am talking about... And frankly, it doesn't matter to me... but since you disagree with anything related to this thread, and I think by now we all know your stance, I suggest you stay away... or I am forced to spam every single thread you post in with comments like this: "no, that is wrong because that is pseudo-chemistry"

[JDP]

Is every dream you ever have, every night, lucid? If not, why not?

No, but that's why they are DREAMS. It's NOT real. Reality is always the same, every single day.

Reality cannot be fully understood when inside it. Therefor reality is relative with similar rules, but since there are exceptions (like those survivors) nothing can be taken for granted.

Reality can be fully understood, otherwise it would be impossible to predict a whole bunch of actions which invariably bring up the same results.

The cases of those survivors can be explained. The guy who fell from the downed WW2 bomber, for example, was incredibly lucky to have hit glass panels on the ceiling of the train station he fell on, which slowed down his fall and allowed him to survive the impact on the more solid surface.

You are aware that the scientific community is closer to my line of thinking, than yours... but I guess that makes sense since you believe in pseudo-chemistry... there is more mumbo-jumbo coming out your end than mine. LOL.

LOL! No friggin' way! The scientific community does NOT say anything of the sort like you claim.

Besides it doesn't matter how many times I say it: the way you reply to my posts clearly indicate that you are not understanding what I am talking about... And frankly, it doesn't matter to me... but since you disagree with anything related to this thread, and I think by now we all know your stance, I suggest you stay away... or I am forced to spam every single thread you post in with comments like this: "no, that is wrong because that is pseudo-chemistry"

But it is you who doesn't understand why the "jump off a cliff" example is perfectly to the point regarding all these bizarre question marks that you try to put on reality. If reality was an "illusion", then we would not all experience the same while doing something like the above suicidal action. Some of us would die, others would not (and I don't mean bizarre freak exceptions, but on a more regular basis.) It would depend on the "illusion" each person has of reality. Poppycock! And reality is the same not just for people, but for animals and plants, and even for inanimate objects that have no consciousness whatsoever (a monkey, a tree or a glass falling down a cliff will also suffer the exact same impact that we will.) That should tell you something. Reality cares nothing about what we think or wish. It just "is". There is no such "illusion" here. Don't believe me? JUMP OFF A CLIFF! 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % chance you will die. Reality at work, quite unhindered by your "it's just an illusion! it's just an illusion! it's just an illusion!" thoughts while you plummet down to your death.

[Awani]

If I had a penny every time someone told me to jump off a cliff I could hand out gold for free.

Also, you still don't get it: don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion

I am not saying what I say is true/fact... but it is what I think... I am not saying reality is not real... but I am also not saying that it is real... your constant argument about "jumping off a cliff" is ridiculous, because it does not even touch upon the topic I am putting forth. From my perspective you are "way off". You are stuck in a limited closed loop of perspective... within that "realm" what you say is true... but I am talking about the deep ocean... you are discussing the dew on a piece of grass.

[JDP]

If I had a penny every time someone told me to jump off a cliff I could hand out gold for free.

Also, you still don't get it: don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion

I am not saying what I say is true/fact... but it is what I think... I am not saying reality is not real... but I am also not saying that it is real... your constant argument about "jumping off a cliff" is ridiculous, because it does not even touch upon the topic I am putting forth. From my perspective you are "way off". You are stuck in a limited closed loop of perspective... within that "realm" what you say is true... but I am talking about the deep ocean... you are discussing the dew on a piece of grass.

[Awani]

You'll see... eventually...

[Awani]

...DMT may be necessary for normal brain function. And normal brain function means normal consciousness. In other words, the brain appears to require an endogeneous psychedelic substance to maintain normal consciousness. - Rick Strassman, M.D.

If this is indeed the case then that means that "reality" is only different levels of trippin': awake, sleeping, dreaming, taking drugs, dancing, sex etc.

Just different kinds of trips, yet all dancing in the arena of DMT. That could be why, when taking DMT, it becomes such an intense experience, because it creates feedback. See this thread.

[black]

If this is indeed the case then that means that "reality" is only different levels of trippin': awake, sleeping, dreaming, taking drugs, dancing, sex etc.

Just different kinds of trips, yet all dancing in the arena of DMT. That could be why, when taking DMT, it becomes such an intense experience, because it creates feedback. See this thread.

Conversely to this line of thought the DMT in our bodies may be there to
keep us in this state of illusion and only by removing it (the DMT) can we
lift the veil and find the True Reality.

Just a thought that crossed my mind.

[Awani]

Could be... so if true does smoking DMT then imply hyper/super "reality"?

[black]

Could be... so if true does smoking DMT then imply hyper/super "reality"?

Possibly by smoking (DMT) could be compounding to a state of hyper/super illusion
and not the Clearness of Reality.

Toxins in the body or illness often create a state of illusion/dellusion.

As a conspiracy theory .... the DMT may have been added to our DNA to
keep us in the Sheep Mentality.

What do you think about that as a possibility ?