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Thread: The Celibate Philosopher

  1. #21
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    Hi theFool,

    Athlets know by experience the detrimental effects of sex before a competition and there are many myths about the consequences of overdoing it.

    Yes, and masturbation causes hairy palms and insanity as everybody knows. During a period when torture devices were attached to the penis of boys to prevent nocturnal erections and "self abuse", when the cure for female masturbation of young girls was clitorectomy, negative attitudes about the body and especially about sex and sex organs, all sorts of mythology and propaganda was propagated.
    Hello III (how do you pronounce this? ),

    it is not a matter of ethics or laws, it is a practical matter. Even you, in a previous post, you say that you practiced celibacy in order to heal. You may have reached to a certain health level which we consider normal, but I think there are higher levels of health too, maybe the practice that can heal us, could also bring us to higher health levels.

    I was a professional ski patrolman. I didn't compete. I used to run the downhill course at full speed just for fun. We had to do rescues from places no sane person should have gone in the first place. Sex was no hinderance in the least, unless I lost sleep to do so. When you play you bet your life each day you want to be top of form. Alchemical sex can leave one overflowing with energy for days at a time, no depletion at all.
    The average person who does not do "Alchemical sex", disagrees with that. They usually sleep after sex.

    Almost every mainstream spiritual path requires celibacy.

    Consider the source. Almost every mainstream spitual path is anti-sex and considers it sinful or did at various times. Celibacy was not required of Catholic priests until something like the 13th or 14th century and I doubt that it will continue do so for all of this century. Lots of nonsense was propagated to supprt the position. The mainstream paths used control of sex as a mechanism for control of people...
    I will not disagree. I just add that there exist also true spiritual adepts who are celibate and who follow those traditions.

    My suggestion is to learn gnostic prayer and then go get the information directly.
    Thanks for suggestion, everyone has his own method. I don't know much about this prayer, but I wonder how is it possible a prayer to give information. Do you enter into altered consciousness during praying? I think praying is the cornerstone of a spiritual lifestyle, without the base, it cannot stand alone and have any result.

    To Salazius:
    True and spiritual celibacy concerns the ego's attachements to this world.
    You can have sex, food, money, power, knowledge etc or any other 'thing' you want, and have no dependency or "lust" for it since you are not the sex or food, or money you can have. This is of course a state of "enlightenment".

    Now I agree retaining semen can be a source of energy, Mantak Chia tells us how. Same thing with women's cycles. Some say it is not possible to attain enlightenment without keeping one's semen inside, this is simply not true.
    Bhakti Yoga, based upon devotion, Jnana Yoga about bugging the mental are not based upon physical fluids, and work very well for their purpose of creating void and bliss + kundalini rising.
    I mostly resonate with your words, but I think it is counterproductive to try to fill a vessel with "energy" without first closing (or at least regulating) the leakage. You have to pour more fluid inside.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Hello III (how do you pronounce this? ),

    it is not a matter of ethics or laws, it is a practical matter. Even you, in a previous post, you say that you practiced celibacy in order to heal. You may have reached to a certain health level which we consider normal, but I think there are higher levels of health too, maybe the practice that can heal us, could also bring us to higher health levels.

    The average person who does not do "Alchemical sex", disagrees with that. They usually sleep after sex.

    I will not disagree. I just add that there exist also true spiritual adepts who are celibate and who follow those traditions.


    Thanks for suggestion, everyone has his own method. I don't know much about this prayer, but I wonder how is it possible a prayer to give information. Do you enter into altered consciousness during praying? I think praying is the cornerstone of a spiritual lifestyle, without the base, it cannot stand alone and have any result.

    To Salazius:


    I mostly resonate with your words, but I think it is counterproductive to try to fill a vessel with "energy" without first closing (or at least regulating) the leakage. You have to pour more fluid inside.

    Hi theFool,

    Even you, in a previous post, you say that you practiced celibacy in order to heal.

    Actually I did not say that. I was celibate caused by the total depletion of energies, literally. I was too debilitated to be able to be non-celibate. Becoming a vegetarian almost killed me. Despite taking cyanocobalamin and folic acid I developed severe multiple mb12/adb12/methylfolate deficiencies. Without adb12 the mitochondria shut down and can't produce normal levels of energy. I was in anarobic energy production for 16 years complete with intense lactic acid burn 24/7 and an almost complete inability to form muscles and other tissue, and a deteriorating nervous system. For many of those years I was quite incapable of participating in any form of sex. I couldn't even walk 500 feet for a lot of those years. Some would say that this was more of a shamanic "trial by illness", solving a death problem.

    You may have reached to a certain health level which we consider normal, but I think there are higher levels of health too, maybe the practice that can heal us, could also bring us to higher health levels.

    I am now the healthiest I have ever been in my entire lifetime by a huge margin, much healthier than most folks my age by any measure you care to use. I attribute this to both my alchemical practices, including most especially the alchemical sex as well as being able to untangle a very complicated set of deficiencies that over 100 docs were unable to even begin figuring out.

    Alchemical sex can leave one overflowing with energy for days at a time, no depletion at all. .
    The average person who does not do "Alchemical sex", disagrees with that. They usually sleep after sex.

    What the average person calls sex and what and how they do during that is not the same as what an alchemist does. The alchemcal pair works with the energies and amplifies them and directs them. For the average person the goal of sex is orgasm reached typically in less than 20 minutes. For the alchemists a partial goal is ecstasy altered consciousness in more than a dozen flavors that is maintained and worked within for hours at a time.


    I will not disagree. I just add that there exist also true spiritual adepts who are celibate and who follow those traditions.

    Certainly. And some traditions would disqualify anybody who lacks adequate health and some would disqualify anybody without a full complement of functional sex organs, and yet these same people may be, or become true spiritual adepts despite their handicaps. For most of my life I lacked the health to qualify according to many. I was rejected from participating in various rituals and schools by some because of my health. Many demonstrate over and over that terrible handicaps can be overcome in many fields including the spiritual. There are many paths along the way.

    Thanks for suggestion, everyone has his own method. I don't know much about this prayer, but I wonder how is it possible a prayer to give information. Do you enter into altered consciousness during praying? I think praying is the cornerstone of a spiritual lifestyle, without the base, it cannot stand alone and have any result.

    Gnostic prayer is a tool. It can be learned by those of probably most any spiritual path. It can be done via alchemical sex methods but those are not at all necessary and are not an inherent part of it. It is about allowing oneself to receive gnosis. What it does appear to require is the cooperation of more than one person at very deep levels to "open the gate". This is based on my experience as well as other's descriptions I have read or been told. A variation on this is something EJ Gold calls "Prayer Absolute", also done as a group and a very powerful experience. He wrote an entire book on that subject with the title "THE HIDDEN WORK".

    but I wonder how is it possible a prayer to give information

    There are many schools that would say that "prayer" is listening. I don't practice the "give me" style of prayer that appears to be popular. If Gnostic prayer is an "asking" prayer, it is asking for divine knowledge and understanding. It is a method of tuning into that divine energy and reading/understanding that information instead of getting fried by it. I am going to make what some may consider a radical statement. All of these "energies", whether one calls them Kundalini, chakra energies, Shakti or whatever, are information flows, like a microwave relay. You can warm a cup of tea with microwaves or you listen to the information therein. They can be described as kind of holographic fractals that are highly compressed so that the information/energy content is extremely large.

    Do you enter into altered consciousness during praying?

    Always. Prayer is an altered state of consciousness.


    Now I agree retaining semen can be a source of energy, Mantak Chia tells us how. Same thing with women's cycles. Some say it is not possible to attain enlightenment without keeping one's semen inside, this is simply not true.

    mostly resonate with your words, but I think it is counterproductive to try to fill a vessel with "energy" without first closing (or at least regulating) the leakage. You have to pour more fluid inside

    I think that "semen" isn't necessarily talking about semen in a physical sense. In my opinion, and experience, the problem is more the refractory period caused by ejaculation and that release of energy. A person can be totally incapable of releasing semen and still have the refractory period after the physical relwease of the energies in ejaculation. Also, in bypassing the ejaculation as such one is not surpressing it, one is bypassing it. One still goes into orgasmic energy states but they don't end in 15 seconds but rather can build and build for hours and carry one into all sorts of different states and be totally shared between partners and becomes the bais of all sorts of mystical and transforming experiences. During this one might experience what some call a "flow orgasm" when semen flows out without contractions, no ejaculation or contractions, no rapid ending, no refractory period. Energies continue building and it is not the end of the experience but rather the entry point into a whole lot of things. The physical semen per se has very little and possibly nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by III; 10-13-2010 at 10:01 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Hello III (how do you pronounce this? ),

    I missed this the first time through. Danged if I know. One of my internal comdians wants to say "Oy-Oy-Oy" but that is not a serious answer. An Internal scientist wants to say I^I^I. Another wants to say I^3, like the physicist Santa, Ho-Ho-Ho is Ho^3. So I don't know. Does it have to be pronouncable?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    I think it is counterproductive to try to fill a vessel with "energy" without first closing (or at least regulating) the leakage. You have to pour more fluid inside.
    Yes, of course, but it only works if you use the way to enlightenement via the Path of energy, and not of state of consciousness first. I use the latter.
    Salazius

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  5. #25
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    I missed this the first time through. Danged if I know. One of my internal comdians wants to say "Oy-Oy-Oy" but that is not a serious answer. An Internal scientist wants to say I^I^I. Another wants to say I^3, like the physicist Santa, Ho-Ho-Ho is Ho^3. So I don't know. Does it have to be pronouncable?
    Depends on how you read words. If you spell or visualise when you read. But I admit you have humor in your explanations, Ho-Ho-Ho ! :-)

    Yes, of course, but it only works if you use the way to enlightenement via the Path of energy, and not of state of consciousness first. I use the latter.
    those paths are similar to what we say as Left Path and Right Path ?
    Last edited by theFool; 10-14-2010 at 02:41 PM.

  6. #26
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    those paths are similar to what we say as Left Path and Right Path ?
    No no,the former uses energy as a triggering effect for spiritual states, the latter uses consciousness itself (bugging the mental and ego for example in Jnana and then freeing consciousness of attachements if I can say) and *then* enegy is released.
    When you awake to "now" or "your" vacuity/being, you have, as an effect, not as cause, kundalini rising, and then comes bliss (for example) and all said "angular effects" because energy awake all chakras and then all states manifests themselves in the same time, or partially depending the deepness and force of impact of awakening.
    Salazius

    http://dartigne.blogspot.com/

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    "I want to transmute everywhere" ~ The Spirit of Alchemy.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salazius View Post
    No no,the former uses energy as a triggering effect for spiritual states, the latter uses consciousness itself (bugging the mental and ego for example in Jnana and then freeing consciousness of attachements if I can say) and *then* enegy is released.
    When you awake to "now" or "your" vacuity/being, you have, as an effect, not as cause, kundalini rising, and then comes bliss (for example) and all said "angular effects" because energy awake all chakras and then all states manifests themselves in the same time, or partially depending the deepness and force of impact of awakening.
    Hi Salazius,

    To me the energy/consciousness question appears to me to be more of a chicken/egg situation. They each appear to be aspects of the same cycle and inseparable. Or, I may not be understanding what you are trying to communicate. To me at least the consciousness appears to be the result of the energy being perceived as information which happens after the blocks to doing so are removed. SO the cycle goes somethiong like this. We enter into a chamber that has energy one is not accusomed to. It irritates, brings up, those things that normally blocks the perception of those energies, one removes these blocks and the energy becomes information when we are not fighting against it, allowing us to fully come into the chanber and become aware of the information in that chamber, to be conscious in the chamber which then becomes the basis for the next dose.

    Shakipat then, to me, appears to be a download of information/energy to a person that appears to catalize them into an Alchemical cycle. If the person had no blocks it would be inforamtion and consciouness. If they have blocks, it is energy that irritates the blocks and can even "burn" them away on some methods. As it is a cycle it seems more like asking is Sunday the last day or first day of the week. Each cycle starts and ends with a "peek", or maybe "look-ahead". The look-ahead that starts the next cycle is the completion effect of the previous cycle.
    Last edited by III; 10-14-2010 at 08:33 PM. Reason: completeing a thought

  8. #28
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    An additional comment I have on this whole thing comes up because of what I saw on the ayahuasca thread; a photo of a sign saying "no sex" on the list with food items not served. In any group invocation setting controling sex beforehand is part of controling variables for more predictable results. As Leary would say, that is part of set and setting. One could just as easlily define the setting as requiring sex the night before for everybody. That is usually more difficult to achieve than prohibiting that. Or perhaps you start the session with a group "orgasmic meditation" to get everybody on an even footing before ingesting the sacrement. Again, as that would cause major chronics and freakouts with most groups it is just easier and more predicatable to do the equalization of "no sex". I have gone into group invocations being guided by somebody else and will fully comply with such requests. Some want a 24 hour fast. Some want no sex. Some want both or require specific foods beforehand. That is all just part of participating in a group and I don't consider that to be a celibacy issue. You don't want unpredictable results so you try to standardize the situation.

  9. #29
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    I too see consciousness and energy as inextricably combined.
    I hazard a guess that what Salazius is speaking of is that people can push energy using pranayama techniques, etc, regardless of
    their consciousness, and produce some results, sometimes injurious. Whereas preparing the field of consciousness first by
    addressing our beliefs, etc, will be conducive to the flow of energy and you will be less likely to injure yourself.

    Is this what you mean Salazius?

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    Just hitching a tail to a thread, as this has been of interest in the past couple of months and connected to use of archemically produced white powder of gold (Ormus).

    A while back we were introduced to the Gnosis of Samuel Aun Weor, and his followers, who view progress as depending on perfect sexual relations within a marriage, whilst retaining the energy so generated by "not spilling the cup of Hermes".
    Considering the Latin American origins, such a strong push against rampant sexuality and affairs - attempting to tame the notorious Latin passion, might be justified. From brief experience - walking around e.g. Florianopolis, Brazil in year round bikini season - this would be a mammoth task.

    Another view point from Max Heindel in The Rosicrucian Philosophy In Questions and Answers is that "We have never advocated generally celibacy, or that people should marry and then live AT ALL TIMES as brother and sister; but we have taught that married people, according to their circumstances, should help to perpetuate the race... But when the act of impregnation has been accomplished, they should refrain from further intercourse".

    Allowing sexual energy to build, and actively practising generating it and then not disspating sexual energy is a great way to show weak spots in a relationship. Orgasm then being a safety valve of sorts.

    However in this regard our teacher simply stated that Fear cannot practice Love and Cultivated virtue is a horror, so not to enact something externally that is not led from within, or as William Blake said "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained".

    When completing a retreat under the same teacher for 21 days, men and women were seperated into two dorms and not really alowed to interact, nor were we allowed to speak. Under normal circumstances this would cause a massive build of energy in myself, but under the influence of the teacher the energy was effortlessly and continuously lifted/transmuted to spiritual insights with no arising of sexual thoughts - an insight which only occurred afterwards. Once back "in the real world" the rush of sexual imagery, etc. rapidly caused a return of sexual impulse.

    Now on to white powder of gold, when using this in small doses energy shot up to the crown - almost to the extent that it felt as though energy was being "sucked" to the crown centre from the lower centres. Sex itself became unimportant, and dropped away for some time (couple of weeks). But similarly all need for control (solar plexus), shallow emotional response (exoteric heart chakra), talking, external projection and need for insight and understanding also dropped away, until an energetic plateau was reached and the lower centres started filling up again.

    In summary - the energy that is mostly lost in unconscious sex is potent and can assist in growth, but the energy can equally be dissipated via the other centres through "frivolities" - someone who manages to contain the sexual centre may become incredibly dominating, or creative in terms of mass producing self important art, or intellectually over stimulated - e.g. seeing the number 23 everywhere and in everything. That sexual safety valve can then be very useful sometimes, at least until there is no further need for it.

    I like the idea that one day Man would be able to be as ok with his generative organs as plants are, freely exposing the flower and stem to the Sun without as an expression of beauty, but that may just be the pervert in me ;-)

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