One in purpose

[Florius Frammel]

Translation: Hope is like an opiate. It can be paralyzing. It delays action.

I guess we all need a bit of it, but it's a fine line...

See: A Torture By Hope

I first had to think of Karl Marx.

Do you think that having hope, together with having faith and being paralyzed is on an axis between the two extremes "knowledge" and "despair"?

Some also consider eternal knowledge being heavenly and the earth we live on as "Jammertal".

[Warmheart]

Giving up your home for some else is not selfless unless you have an empty house you don't use.
1st it means now you have replaced the person you helped, you are now in their previous position. The problem of homelessness is not solved.
You are the homeless now, so some will have to help you, no progress is achieved.
2nd sharing our home is something alot of us do, our friends family when they need it,
it's not a migrant family from another place who we don't have the power to really help unless we are wealthy,
but we do what we can for each other with what we have, just like you do for yourself with what you have.

You described a very important aspect of the problem, which can be formulated as "Earth isn't infinite".

Noone is asking homeless people to produce progeny. If mankind will keep increasing in geometrical progression, it is going to be impossible to build houses for everyone on Earth,.

Some totally different solution must be made to fix that situation, but mankind is too immature and hypocritical for that to happen.

Most of the problems - bad ecology, diseases, poverty are results of mindless breeding. There are only so many resources in the world for everyone to be happy, anything more than that and there will be problems. Mankind has colossal problems because of that: climate is changing, Earth is dying. I shed my tears for Earth and I have no pity for humanity and their problems, which they keep provoking themselves.

Also there is a big illusion in minds of mankind, that wise people actually care about humanity and need to serve them. Mankind does its best to provide a lot of obstacles for people who seek Truth and who despise lie. It is in these millenias when wise people have to dwell in poverty, be ridiculed and hunted down, while charlatans and untouchables are ruling this world in all its spheres.

Elixirmixer's post had a smell of communism, which my land (Russia) experienced in XX century. Did it bring anything good? No, it was age of slavery, poverty and even now an older generation of people is tainted by that satanic ideology which was inseminated in their minds.

Even various christian texts (mostly apocryphs) say that you should stay away from loving mankind, you must love only God. Mankind is just a swamp which will devour you if you try to help it in its current condition. Most of people are very dangerous and vicious animals, which are only constrained by the presence of law. Even Basilius Valentine says similar things: there is no good in mankind.

So I think it is unnecessary to turn the attention away from Wisdom and toward the swines and to blame freemasons for all the evil in this world (which became a very popular modern notion). One must go through a very difficult and thorny path to Wisdom: it is mostly mankind that produces those thorns. Just let mankind be on its own while it is in process of being dissolved in time for all its committed atrocities: don't seek justice, don't be a judge and you won't be judged (by that very same mankind).

There are innumerable worlds and planes of existence, and there is nothing special about mankind: it is just one of many lifeforms, not the best one, though not the worst one. The same way one could start liking or even serving cockroaches or ants or even poisonous snakes - but what does it have to do with Wisdom?

I bring my apologies if I hurt someone's feelings by this my approach, which is very unpopular in this hypocritical world, but at least I am honest and sincere.

[Awani]

All of humainity can fit within the borders of the USA alone. There are plenty of resources for everyone to live in abundance. The issue with the world is lack of equality and fairness, not lack of space and resources.

I personally do not think humans are "bad", and I do not share this pessimistic outlook at all. Humans are like bees. If the Queen Bee says to the bees to fly around and assasinate human babies, then bees would become public enemy number one... as it happens she is telling bees to "make sweet honey".

Until we have a human race that is mature enough to live under self-rule (anarchy) i.e. no rulers/no slaves... we need intelligent, compassionate, loving SLAVE MASTERS to herd humanity in the right direction. Currently we have crappy shepherds.

[Warmheart]

All of humainity can fit within the borders of the USA alone. There are plenty of resources for everyone to live in abundance. The issue with the world is lack of equality and fairness, not lack of space and resources.

I actually wanted to redact my previous post because it seemed to be a bit too harsh, but I was distracted by friend.

I don't have much against mankind, it has cool things too outside of the bad. It also has good people among bad, it has its pluses and minuses. It shouldn't be hated, but neither adored with fanaticism to serve it or something.

Sadly, even climate changes because of mankind and its activity, we had abnormally high temperature for these seasons this year. Not all the surface of Earth is made for mankind and is suitable for them (e.g. Siberia, tropical jungles, etc.), so amount of available space is actually quite limited and Nature's balance suffers when man starts trying to inhabit unsuitable locations and change them to his comfort.

I just wanted to summarize what I wrote: Wisdom and Knowledge go hand by hand with Power and big responsibility, most of mankind is irresponsible (just look at their tactics and weapons of war), and thus Wisdom and Knowledge are kept in secrecy. Wise people are those who left the ways of man and chose path of Wisdom. This world is a hard place to live for good, honest and knowledgeable people, because it is THEM who need the help first to survive in this deceitful world, it is them whom mankind should serve and once served, because only those wise people can save humanity from incoming disasters and cataclysms. Path to Wisdom is extremely dangerous and taxing on its own, necessity to survive in current rotten society model makes it even harder. Average man says "give me this and give me that, share this knowledge, give power, serve me" but gives nothing in return. This is one-sided game.

So forgive me, I simply start getting allergy when I hear that wise people need to serve humanity, that freemasons are evil, that alchemists are selfish. Anyone who achieved at least some progress on path of Wisdom knows how extremely hard this path is, that it is full of sacrifices with no help but rather obstacles from humanity. Then we have freeloaders who ridicule you, don't help you but demand fruits of hard labor to "serve humanity" (I am speaking about general attitude of current mankind toward wise people).

I think this is something which must be considered.

[elixirmixer]

“Before the Law stands a doorkeeper on guard. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country who begs for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot admit the man at the moment. The man, on reflection, asks if he will be allowed, then, to enter later. 'It is possible,' answers the doorkeeper, 'but not at this moment.'

Since the door leading into the Law stands open as usual and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man bends down to peer through the entrance. When the doorkeeper sees that, he laughs and says: 'If you are so strongly tempted, try to get in without my permission. But note that I am powerful. And I am only the lowest doorkeeper. From hall to hall keepers stand at every door, one more powerful than the other. Even the third of these has an aspect that even I cannot bear to look at.' These are difficulties which the man from the country has not expected to meet, the Law, he thinks, should be accessible to every man and at all times, but when he looks more closely at the doorkeeper in his furred robe, with his huge pointed nose and long, thin, Tartar beard, he decides that he had better wait until he gets permission to enter.

The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at the side of the door. There he sits waiting for days and years. He makes many attempts to be allowed in and wearies the doorkeeper with his importunity. The doorkeeper often engages him in brief conversation, asking him about his home and about other matters, but the questions are put quite impersonally, as great men put questions, and always conclude with the statement that the man cannot be allowed to enter yet. The man, who has equipped himself with many things for his journey, parts with all he has, however valuable, in the hope of bribing the doorkeeper. The doorkeeper accepts it all, saying, however, as he takes each gift: 'I take this only to keep you from feeling that you have left something undone.'

During all these long years the man watches the doorkeeper almost incessantly. He forgets about the other doorkeepers, and this one seems to him the only barrier between himself and the Law. In the first years he curses his evil fate aloud; later, as he grows old, he only mutters to himself. He grows childish, and since in his prolonged watch he has learned to know even the fleas in the doorkeeper's fur collar, he begs the very fleas to help him and to persuade the doorkeeper to change his mind.

Finally his eyes grow dim and he does not know whether the world is really darkening around him or whether his eyes are only deceiving him. But in the darkness he can now perceive a radiance that streams immortally from the door of the Law. Now his life is drawing to a close. Before he dies, all that he has experienced during the whole time of his sojourn condenses in his mind into one question, which he has never yet put to the doorkeeper. He beckons the doorkeeper, since he can no longer raise his stiffening body. The doorkeeper has to bend far down to hear him, for the difference in size between them has increased very much to the man's disadvantage.

'What do you want to know now?' asks the doorkeeper, 'you are insatiable.' 'Everyone strives to attain the Law,' answers the man, 'how does it come about, then, that in all these years no one has come seeking admittance but me?' The doorkeeper perceives that the man is at the end of his strength and that his hearing is failing, so he bellows in his ear: 'No one but you could gain admittance through this door, since this door was intended only for you. I am now going to shut it.”

― Franz Kafka, The Trial

What is the moral of this story?

[elixirmixer]

Hey folk's!

I imagine that a lot of people here study alchemy for the same reason I do.. to help people!

I am an incredible fool.

Moral of the story. Do not OD on turpentine. Im shitting out Pine-O-Clean right now.

[Florius Frammel]

I am an incredible fool.

Moral of the story. Do not OD on turpentine. Im shitting out Pine-O-Clean right now.

Yes you are!

BTW, you don't need to have access to high security data to inform yourself about dangers of substances. Wikipedia is in most cases enough:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine

If you would have looked at the GHS pictograms and the lethal dose (rats) / recommended exposure limit you would have known before.

I can only repeat it again: Inform yourself! And if you don't know what you have in your vessel, by no means ingest it!

And I too give you the advice to go to the hospital!

[Awani]

I actually wanted to redact my previous post because it seemed to be a bit too harsh, but I was distracted by friend.

I don't have much against mankind, it has cool things too outside of the bad. It also has good people among bad, it has its pluses and minuses. It shouldn't be hated, but neither adored with fanaticism to serve it or something.

Sadly, even climate changes because of mankind and its activity, we had abnormally high temperature for these seasons this year. Not all the surface of Earth is made for mankind and is suitable for them (e.g. Siberia, tropical jungles, etc.), so amount of available space is actually quite limited and Nature's balance suffers when man starts trying to inhabit unsuitable locations and change them to his comfort.

I just wanted to summarize what I wrote: Wisdom and Knowledge go hand by hand with Power and big responsibility, most of mankind is irresponsible (just look at their tactics and weapons of war), and thus Wisdom and Knowledge are kept in secrecy. Wise people are those who left the ways of man and chose path of Wisdom. This world is a hard place to live for good, honest and knowledgeable people, because it is THEM who need the help first to survive in this deceitful world, it is them whom mankind should serve and once served, because only those wise people can save humanity from incoming disasters and cataclysms. Path to Wisdom is extremely dangerous and taxing on its own, necessity to survive in current rotten society model makes it even harder. Average man says "give me this and give me that, share this knowledge, give power, serve me" but gives nothing in return. This is one-sided game.

So forgive me, I simply start getting allergy when I hear that wise people need to serve humanity, that freemasons are evil, that alchemists are selfish. Anyone who achieved at least some progress on path of Wisdom knows how extremely hard this path is, that it is full of sacrifices with no help but rather obstacles from humanity. Then we have freeloaders who ridicule you, don't help you but demand fruits of hard labor to "serve humanity" (I am speaking about general attitude of current mankind toward wise people).

I think this is something which must be considered.

Serving others is not limited to wise people. Any human that wants to advance in life should aim to serve. High altruism is the perfect form of selfishness... since the self gains as much as the served.

[Andro]

High altruism is the perfect form of selfishness

If this is correct, maybe the reverse is also correct? Could high selfishness be the perfect form of altruism?

On flights, we're always told (in case of an emergency) to put on our own oxygen masks FIRST. If we can't breathe, we can't help anyone else.

Is this "selfish"? Can sure be seen as such.

Does it increase our chances to help someone else in need? Absolutely.

[Florius Frammel]

If this is correct, maybe the reverse is also correct? Could high selfishness be the perfect form of altruism?

On flights, we're always told (in case of an emergency) to put on our own oxygen masks FIRST. If we can't breathe, we can't help anyone else.

Is this "selfish"? Can sure be seen as such.

Does it increase our chances to help someone else in need? Absolutely.

Another example, that gives a slightly different viewpoint to this topic would be a soldier in war, who draws the attention towards himself (with the high probability of dying), to give his team members the opportunity to flee and survive.

Or a captain who is the last man standing on the ship before it sinks, to organize the flight of the passengers and other crew members.