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Thread: About Shamanism

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    I have not read a word of it, simply posted it because the cover says in visual language what I strongly feel: that shamanism is the original alchemy, in the same way that alchemy is the original chemistry. Go to the source. I do own the book.
    Impossible to disagree with the statement, though other things got into the mix too (on the path from Shamanism to Alchemy).
    The cover of the book is surprising, though in a strange way... To see the two snakes forming a helix is easy in that cover and the caduceus is almost there (the stick in the middle is suggested only, but that's fine).
    But I say it is surprising because even if the Serpent was (is) important in several traditions of the Americas... I doubt you will find this specific arrangement in ANY pre-colonial American tradition (It looks Sumerian, it was also used by the Greeks, there's also Far East examples... but I don't really know any pre-colonial American example).

    I was going to blame the publisher, because I don't think you'll find this design in any Amazon tradition... so I went to amazon.com (the other Amazon!)... and it is self-published.

    It can be an "artistic license", but if I am not wrong, there isn't any American (non colonial) tradition that actually uses that symbol.

    Other than that, I do not disagree with the point though (that Shamanism came before alchemy and alchemy can be considered as an offspring of Shamanism, that's true).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    It can be an "artistic license".
    Yes, it is contemporary. It speaks to me. No historical foundation.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #13
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    Thanks for the replies Schmuldvich.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    I cannot agree with this at all, with what little I do know of the Renaissance.
    Well, not sure I agree myself. But one thing always leads to another.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #14
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    Doing the podcast I get a lot of requests from shamans that want to appear on the podcast. In the future I might avoid this fully... because I cannot take someone serious that calls themselves a shaman. In a sense it is a semantic issue.

    Neoshaman: individuals trained in shamanism from sources that were not indigenous.

    It does not mean a neoshaman is worse than a shaman, it simply means that they are not trained for generations in a certain knowledge and mapping of worlds (this one and others)... you need maps to get around. And if you live for generations self-sustained in harmony with nature, you will always have a very different foundation than someone that grew up in the city.

    Shaman: technically a white mans word that describe a certain type of individual... the word comes from the indigenous peoples of Siberia although has been used to describe ALL "shamans".

    I have spent time with 7 different indigenous cultures so far across the globe, and in their own individual culture they use another term for shaman... this word can usually be translated as "healer"... although because of the power of western influence they also use, these days, the term shaman...

    Medicine Man: if we want a western word for the "shaman" then I think "medicine man" is way more accurate... although half the "shamans" I've met, and by now I have met a few, have been women...

    ---------------------------------------------

    Excellent article:
    The Role of Fear in Traditional and Contemporary Shamanism by Michael York

    Some important quotes below:

    ...to apply the term `shamanism’ to medicine-people and witch-doctor practices belonging to ethnic identities further afield, such as among African tribalists or indigenious Indians in both North and South America, is an Euro-centric misnomer which carries an artificiality akin to the British colonial labelling of the diverse dharma practices of India under the single rubric of `Hinduism’...
    Although for sake of simplicity the author employs the term shamanism... and refers to neo-shamanism as "new age".

    The contrast between New Age shamanism and pagan shamanism in a modern Western context revolves around the role of fear. In traditional shamanism, the shaman’s initiation is an ordeal involving pain, hardship and terror. In its classic version, the shaman experiences death, often dis-membership or skeletalisation, before undergoing reconstitution and rebirth. New Age, by contrast is a religious perspective that denies the ultimately reality of the negative, and this would devalue the role of fear as well. But in seeking to dismiss the fearsome, New Age also has the propensity to eliminate a central feature of religion qua religion, namely, the experience of awe. The encounter with the mysterium tremendum et fascinans engenders a mixed emotion of fear, reverence and wonder. If, however, all becomes `sweetness and light’ through a New Age agenda, there is no dread. But without the experience of fear, there can then be no real experience of the awesome. New Age shamanism would then seem to constitute an incomplete form of shamanism – one which does not include the central feature of shamanic initiation, and one which also does not include a central feature of religion.
    This above passage is very lucid and in simple terms explains what I have been trying to get across when discussing this topic.

    As I see it, a "shamanic" experience will contain the following:

    - pain
    - hardship
    - terror
    - death
    - rebirth
    - fear
    - and most important AWE

    "...without the experience of fear, there can then be no real experience of the awesome..."

    Next time I talk to a Gringo Shaman I will ask if he/she can supply all in the above list in a single evening. If not, then it can still be a valid and healing experience... but I would not class it as a "shamanic experience".

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #15
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    A primitive form of alchemy can be verified in celtic world in it Ogham systems. In the "Auraicept N'aces" the scholars primer of celtic language shows
    a primitive path to obtain silver and red gold from white gold, the Huath lettter (Howthorn) is credited to transform pale silver in true silver, through an
    amalgam with gold making it a white gold, then bath it amalgam with urine the metal turns into red gold.

    The Huath letter (H), the howthorn and it powers perhaps is associated with Morrigham godess.

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