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Thread: Is enlightenment a trap?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    I am really looking forward to it

    I got home too late so Andro beat me to the punch. I would have said the same thing (but with different words). And what he said about The Path of Return is - IMO - the shamanic path.

    Although I differ in the thinking of this path's definition:

    Complete 'alchemical' transmutation of 'Body' & 'Soul' into code-less, UN-Created Spirit. Waking up, for real.
    If this is achieved it might as well be the end result of the VR world, meaning that God creates Man and Man creates God. UN-Created Spirit creates VR and VR creates UN-Created Spirit. Like the Ouroboros.

    And if this is not the case then UN-created Spirit created VR, which makes VR part of UN-created Spirit. I see all these things as less dualistic and I don't see less value in waking up, than waking up for real. Both are the same. Even if they are different in intensity.

    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    But the goal is not elavation to higher realms or mastery but becoming a eternal servant of god.
    Why would you not want to be a servant of yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    I do not want to serve god eternally, I rather just be dead. I want to help others and devote my life for "the good" because I want to do so and not because I have to.
    If you want to help others and devote your life for "the good" then you are serving god, IMO.

    As for eternity, well not much you can do about that. LOL!

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    In this allegory enlightenment or the child would still be "the problem" or death.
    I don't understand your statement.

    The allegory was just to show how you can achieve something without desire. No problem involved.

    As for what is enlightenment: when you reach a state of being that absolves you of all existing

    Good luck with that. LOL!

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #13
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    zoas23

    Lol sry somehow your post got overseen by me until now but it is indeed very informative and fitting to this subject...so much so that I can not even form any response or opinion about it now because that would just be reacting without reflecting.

    The great difficulty in all the 'religions of the Book,' is that individuals confound their ego with the "I AM," the Jungian or Advaitic Self.
    A mystical experience of the "high subtle" (K. Wilber) or "low causal," or "high causal" plane, will seriously reduce (Sabikalpa samadhi) or eliminate (Nirvikalpa /Asamprajnata samadhi) the individual, transient identity so that all that remains is the Universal "I AM" in its intuitively self-existent, non-verbal mode.
    As far as I have grasped this comment until now he describes with "I Am" what I am looking for. ^^
    It seems, imo, to be the complete opposite of becoming "a whole" in god but becoming your truest self with god in you.

    The "I am" allthough completly removed from ego is still some version of "I" and "being" and therefor it is not becoming a eternal slave.At least to the point of understanding I have right now of this post.

    Thank you again zoas23!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    but becoming your truest self with god in you.
    YES!

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Why would you not want to be a servant of yourself?
    Because any 'self' that requires 'serving' is an 'imposter' self.

    We all have these 'imposter' selves, to various degrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    UN-Created Spirit creates VR
    In a certain sense yes, but it's a complex correlation that would require a level of elaboration for which I currently do not have the time or the patience, and I also don't have enough synthesized knowledge to present it in a philosophically coherent manner that's not a 100 pages long...

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    VR creates UN-Created Spirit
    'UN-Created Spirit' isn't and cannot be 'created' (or destroyed), hence the term. Sometimes referred to as 'Holy Spirit', 'Spiritus Mundi', etc...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Because any 'self' that requires 'serving' is an 'imposter' self.
    I was just having fun. Why so serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    'UN-Created Spirit' isn't and cannot be 'created' (or destroyed), hence the term. Sometimes referred to as 'Holy Spirit', 'Spiritus Mundi', etc...
    This is probably so, still in the last year I have started to suspect it isn't... it is maybe hard for us here on Earth to imagine such things because it is hard not to think linear. What came first: chicken or egg

    The egg came first AND so did the chicken. When time and linear events occur in a space that is not bound by linear movements or time (or even paradox) then all things are possible.

    It still means that the UN-Created Spirit is uncreated and indestructible, yet it is the end game of all it has created, just as it is the beginning of all that has been created.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    ...a complex correlation that would require a level of elaboration for which I currently do not have the time or the patience, and I also don't have enough synthesized knowledge to present it in a philosophically coherent manner that's not a 100 pages long...
    If you can't understand it without an explanation, you can't understand it with an explanation.
    ― Haruki Murakami
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    I don't understand your statement.

    The allegory was just to show how you can achieve something without desire. No problem involved.

    As for what is enlightenment: when you reach a state of being that absolves you of all existing

    Good luck with that. LOL!

    I meant it regarding to enlightenment being eternal servitude according to "those" spiritual practices. So without having a different interpretation of enlightenment than "those" enlightenment or the child would ultimately still be eternal servitude no matter if with or without desire. Because it would still lead to becoming " a whole" and devoting your life to pure servitude for "the good" without the chance to want or not want to be "good" because the "you" which could make this decision would no longer exist.


    I got home too late so Andro beat me to the punch.
    No worries I forgive you in my great kindness XDXD.

    If you want to help others and devote your life for "the good" then you are serving god, IMO.
    Maybe but the difference, which to me is a huge difference, is that I can choose to do so and not have to do so and not be able to choose at all in the first place since the "you" which could do so according to "those" spiritual practices would have to go.

    Originally Posted by JinRaTensei
    But the goal is not elavation to higher realms or mastery but becoming a eternal servant of god.
    Why would you not want to be a servant of yourself?
    Because according to "those" spiritual practices there would be no "I" to serve and no goal/path other than serving which would mean I would not truy serve myself because I myself do not just want to serve.

  8. #18
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    I was trying to find a reply to your post but these words are in the way of my brain: servitude - good - choose

    Because - IMO - those things don't exist in the states of mind we are talking about.

    You keep mentioning "those" spiritual practices... but I thought we both agreed that they are rubbish.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    but becoming your truest self with god in you.
    YES!
    1. Again, it depends on which 'god' we're talking about.

    2. The 'truest' self IS the true/UN-Created 'god'/'Spirit'. The 'fake self' nevertheless caries the 'true self' in it.

    To use alchemical terminology, the 'fake self' (of the 'false creation', see ICH and other authors) comprises the superfluities in the Great Work, which need to be either discarded or transmuted. 'Terra Damnata'

  10. #20
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    You keep mentioning "those" spiritual practices... but I thought we both agreed that they are rubbish.
    We do and I also "got" what you said and agree I was trying to explain my former post because it was unclear in its synthax and you asked me what I meant.
    But truly no need to mention "them" anymore ^^

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