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Thread: Is enlightenment a trap?

  1. #31
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    Just a little side note from someone who went to college in the subject of psychology

    Two manic traits. LOL.
    Name the opposite of a maniac or psychopath...curiously enough there is none or maybe in non scientific terms it would be called "hero"

    Psychologically speaking "Hitler" and "The Buddha" are almost the same. Both are absolute tyrannts. Both sought absolute control.
    The only difference Hitler sought absolute control outwardly and the Buddha sought it inwardly.

    So naturally you must have some manic traits if you are going in almost the complete opposite of the maniac/psychopath which, in short, needs or wants to avoid all feeling and responsibility contrary to the shamanic path which I assume seeks to embrace and conquer all feelings and take full responsibility for ones actions.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    As I was pondering about this line a fly landed on the table in front of me. I looked at the fly and without any compassion, since it was "just" a fly I picked up a knife which was also laying on the table and struck the fly. I did not kill the fly but cut off one of its wings and thereby rendering it unable to continue living.
    My strike was light and precise and the knife used was a good " higher grade" knife which I had been using for a year now without any damages to the knife.

    Strangely while striking the fly with this light but fast strike on a wood table the knife just broke in two. This should not be possible.
    I know a perfect quote related to this experience... Austin Spare again:

    You are conscious of the gay Butterfly you observe and are conscious of being "You": the Butterfly is conscious of being "itself," and as such, it is a consciousness as good as and the same as yours, i.e., of you being "you." Therefore this consciousness of "you" that you both feel is the same "you"? Ergo, you are one and the same-the mystery of mysteries and the most simple thing in the world to understand! How could you be conscious of what you are not? But you might believe differently? So, if you hurt the Butterfly you hurt yourself, but your belief that you don't hurt yourself protects you from hurt-for a time! Belief gets tired and you are miserably hurt! Do what you will-belief is ever its own inconsistency. Desire contains everything, hence you must believe in everything-if you believe at all! Belief seems to exclude commonsense.

    There is no doubt about it-this consciousness of "Thee" and "Me" is the unwelcome but ever ready torturer-yet it "need not be so" in any sense! Is it not a matter of Fear? You are fearsome of entering a den of Tigers? (And I assure you it is a matter of righteousness-(inborn or cultured)-whether you enter voluntarily or are chucked in, and whether you come out alive or not!) Yet daily you fearlessly enter dens inhabited by more terrible creatures than Tigers and you come out unharmed-why?

    I don't have much to add to that quote, other than remembering that Psyche in Greek also stands for "Butterfly"...

    The fly, the butterfly, the tiger, you...


    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    zoas23

    Strangely no matter how much I feel to express my opinion to this I somehow feel it is lacking and that somehow this is the excact same thing.
    It is so obvious and yet complex, right in front of my eyes and yet never in my sight.

    I can not say anything else than I think I understand or maybe I do not understand what you explicitly meant...but still I understand.

    Allegorically this is exactly what I am feeling. The things I want to express are "hidden" by the nature of themselves without me wanting to hide them. I feel words can not unveil those "truths". Silence is maybe not just secrecy but also the most honest expression men can give sometimes.
    I love the tale of Poe because of that issue... at least my experience has always been that the most "hidden" things are not hidden at all... the tale is perfect: the cops couldn't find the letter because they were looking for a hidden thing... and it was there in front of their eyes all the time.

    The quote of the Emerald Tablet is so explicit that we often forget to read it in an extremely literal way: "That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing".

    This part of the Tablet is so simple that we often forget it and we don't even seem to read it... or we become like the cops of the tale of Poe and start looking for the most bizarre metaphors in the strangest places... And maybe it is expressing something so "easy" that we often don't see it even if it's in front of our eyes.


    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    Just out of curiosity since to my knowledge the archetypes Isis/Venus are mostly referred to as being female, although I assume they are like all "gods" androgynous. Was there a specific reason that you refer to them as "his" and not "her" or am I interpreting to much into this?
    LOL... English is my second language (my main one is Spanish)... and whilst all the Latin languages (French, Spanish, Italian, etc) are by far more *genderized* than English, the usual "possessive" word we use doesn't change depending on the gender... So I often write "his" when I should write "her"... a typical unconscious mistake I often make in English due to my native language. Take it as a typo, it wasn't a deep secret related to the androgynous nature of the "Gods"...

    Though... the idea of Isis/Venus is a metaphor... or an Archetype that only makes sense if it is used to arrive to THE ONLY Archetype which is neither male or female.

    A quote I often bring, by Wittgenstein and some people will begin to puke if I bring it even one more time: " My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands me finally recognizes them as senseless, when he has climbed out through them, on them, over them. (He must so to speak throw away the ladder, after he has climbed up on it.) He must transcend these propositions, and then he will see the world aright."

    So... yes... I think this is valid for all the posts in this thread: maybe they are like a ladder that will only make sense once it is thrown away... since what we say is always an incredibly bad definition of something that, by definition, can't be said.

    Unrestrained by everything except for your morals?

    Again I thought of Austin Spare and his "definitions" in the Book of Pleasure:
    The words God, religions, faith, morals, woman, etc. (they being forms of belief), are used as expressing different "means" as controlling and expressing desire: an idea of unity by fear in some form or another which must spell bondage-the imagined limits; extended by science which adds a dearly paid inch to our height: no more.

    Kia: The absolute freedom which being free is mighty enough to be "reality" and free at any time: therefore is not potential or manifest (except as it's instant possibility) by ideas of freedom or "means," but by the Ego being free to recieve it, by being free of ideas about it and by not believing. The less said of it (Kia) the less obscure is it. Remember evolution teaches by terrible punishments-that conception is ultimate reality but not ultimate freedom from evolution.

    Virtue: Pure Art

    Vice: Fear, belief, faith, control, science, and the like.

    Self-Love: A mental state, mood or condition caused by the emotion of laughter becoming the principle that allows the Ego appreciation or universal association in permitting inclusion before conception.
    We sometimes want anarchy and cops... but we finally have to choose one way or the other.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by JinRaTensei View Post
    This is a matter which has been bothering me for a long time now and I wish to bother thou with it as well. ^^

    Is enlightenment congruent to death, a trap layed out by the (spiritual and materialistic) elite to protect their own standing and power?


    The kabbalah teaches that the 'ego' is pain and suffering.
    That the ego is our response to keep us away from things that hurt us.
    It also makes us despise everyone that is not "us".

    It is the "self" and as a result is extremely "selfish".

    In order to transend to the higher realms of the multiverse you must realise the truth about yourself, your relativity to everything that is not you, and what you TRUELY are.

    That said, you are correct. The elite make this transformation whilst keeping their ego, that is why they act to selfishly and in such an "evil" manner (at least that's how we perceive it (not saying it is or isn't, just commenting on its perception)).


    If we all realised our egos and transended we would see each other as ourselves ("love thy neighbour as thy self") and there would be no selfish acts in the world, we'd all be lovely to one another and 'it' would be good.
    We would also not fear death, and would embrace each leap, as it may be the next leap home (quantum leap).
    As it is we all retain our egos, try and scrape together as much material as we can around our nests, eat all we can, consume until we burst, orgasm as much as possible; with as many different people as will let us, then fear until we die.


    I'm not trying to sway you in one direction or another about your ego. It is yours, and your relationship to it is key.
    It's also positioned exactly opposite to god, and is his gift to us; without it we would all be 'One'.
    One mass hive entity that had no individuality or personality: the same as how bees are effectively all just one brain, resonating through different shells.

    The journey is to understand your ego, realise its truth, and seperate from it.
    But this should not be confused with seperating from your own individuality, your soul.
    That is the key.
    Otherwise you become one of these elite hive-minds; who all think they're one person, but have been tricked into becoming one large entity. (avoid at all costs new-age hippies and people who talk about "being one" and "at one with oneness"... it's a trap)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    (avoid at all costs new-age hippies and people who talk about "being one" and "at one with oneness"... it's a trap)
    I disagree and I am certainly not a new-age hippie. It has got nothing to do with hive-mind. Yes, you are right some people apply this way of thinking to a sort of mask (call it new-age hippie or whatever), but this is not the case for the individual. Sheep are attracted to crowds/groups. For instance you can have solitary serial killer and then you can have Obama who orders the death of people with support from millions - but it is only the serial killer that is "evil". Same with "being one"... although I prefer to use the term "merge with the Mystery". You can have a hippie cult that achieve nothing with being one, and then you can have the individual who reach Nirvana.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Same with "being one"... although I prefer to use the term "merge with the Mystery". You can have a hippie cult that achieve nothing with being one, and then you can have the individual who reach Nirvana.
    Depends on how well you know the programming language, I guess. You either play the game or design it
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    You either play the game or design it.
    Yes, but most probably it was designed first and then played... so it is actually impossible to design it whilst playing... that is how it was designed.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    You either play the game or design it
    Or get played..

    although I prefer to use the term "merge with the Mystery". You can have a hippie cult that achieve nothing with being one, and then you can have the individual who reach Nirvana.
    I'm not sure what you mean.
    When they actually acheive "oneness" metaphysically, (not just talk about it), their thoughts are all synced. They feel others thoughts, and as such if they have a thought the hive doesn't like it is moderated out. like standing in a room talking about something the other 100 people don't like: you feel pressure to conform.
    This pressure is what actuates the "hive-mind". This is the mob-mentality that creates their "oneness".

    Actual non-duality in the hyperdimension is more like a firewall. The illusion of duality keeps us locked into our "selves".
    Once you bypass that, you become an entity outside of what you know of yourself today.
    You then become a being of light in the neversphere, understanding that you are everything else, your perspective is just fixed to your own soul (a soul that was once what we call "god" before it split into the consciousness that now inhabits every atom in the cosmos).

    I have a feeling you will disagree with me further, but what I'm saying is quite accurate.
    Cognitive dissonance will rarely allow anyone to accept it, though.

  8. #38
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    Yes then I agree. I know all this.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Or get played..
    True, but I like to think that playing the game necessarily means the game is playing you at the same time.

    Just like enlightenment. If you search for enlightenment, then enlightenment will search for you (in a manner of speaking).

    Funny thing is, my mother always told me that if I ever get lost, "just in the same spot until you're found".
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  10. #40
    It is about oneness, which is the purpose of alchemy to find the Prima Materia, that which binds all things together and all things derive from.

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