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Thread: Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path?

  1. #1
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    Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path?

    Alchemy at its base level provides with a means of producing truckloads of gold by using a little amount of red powder known as the Philosopher's stone. This is the basic definition of alchemy.

    I want to ask:
    How can by merely meditating chakra kundalini Inner Alchemy or whatever mumbo jumbo you want to call it can you end up with insane amounts of Gold?

    Let's proceed with a quote by Ab Roek

    Internal / External fallacy

    Many are lead astray by the recent inventive fallacy of "internal vs. external" Alchemy. Untrained noses are thrown off the Scent of the real Trail, and distracted by the piss markings of those who have not seen the Trail through to its more important Landmarks. The true way is distinguished by the scent of Roses.

    Keep in mind that the Ancients did not advocate the distinction of "internal vs. external" Alchemy. It is not because they weren't as smart as you or me, and hence didn't know enough about the varieties toward which their Subject could be applied. Although many of them did use blinds to confuse the unserious seeker, they never stooped to telling a lie (that is, such a lie as the "internal vs. external" view of Alchemy). Occult blinds are not the same as lies, learn well the difference and understand.

    It is a belief that is without foundation. Moreover, this belief only serves to limit one's perspective and approach, and, once accepted as "true," does much to actively generate misunderstanding among those who are seeking the reality behind Alchemy. This is why I called it a "lie." (As well to help distinguish it from the use of occult blinds)

    Do not take my previous post as being personally directed at you, or any one single person on this forum. I've seen traces of this belief in dozens of other posts here, as well in a good number of the modern written works on Alchemy. It is a recent error, perpetuated by authors who were trying to fit Alchemy into their own belief systems and their own knowledge of other traditions.

    I am saying, there are some some beliefs that seekers hold onto which will only prohibit their understanding. If one wants to find the truth behind the tradition of Alchemy, one must decide to see things as they are, rather than how one would like them to be.

    Try letting go of the belief for three months, and during that time actively try to understand Alchemy without it.

    "Whoso loveth unquietness, let him be reformed."

    When you claim that you do not have a belief about this issue, meanwhile go on to defend, justify, and in other ways cling (indeed) to the belief which underlies the internal / external error, your actions and words become a fundamental contradiction. If you believe you are being straightforward, look deeper and see whether you're being honest with yourself on this issue- begin with the statement "I do not have a belief about this..." Your actions and predilections of study will tell you what your beliefs are-- whether you are consciously aware of them or not does not change the fact that they guide your course.

    Furthermore, to say that the "internal / external" error is "useful" to hang onto both betrays a preference which you do not wish to let go of (presuming you meant what you said), and promulgates a roadblock to progress in Art. For, this internal / external error is the very opposite of useful, in that it only serves to obfuscate the seeker's understanding of Alchemy, in both its theory and practice. To thus claim that something is "useful" for the ends of Alchemy, when in fact it only prohibits and stunts the maturation of that Art, is more than merely flawed logic.

    Let's be clear here, that when you have grasped the Prima Materia, and reflected upon the consequences of your realization, you will also realize precisely why I say that the "external / internal" view of Alchemy is a Lie. Until that time, you are only theorizing and offering your opinion, which cannot be grounded upon anything other than speculation. I say cannot, because I know from personal experience that Alchemy only becomes possible after the revelation of the Prima Materia. The fact that you think this is some sort of disagreement over syntax is further evidence that you fundamentally do not understand the core of the issue, and from your mistaken point of view, you feel the next best course of action is to come up with thought-strings which serve to defend your own ego and beliefs on the matter.

    This is not about you or any more than it is about me, or any other single individual. There are many who post here who have become infected by this error, which the interested and diligent reader can trace through numerous threads on this forum. Saying "there is no inside or outside, therefore anything goes" is disingenuous, and dissembling. When anyone truly realizes (abolishes) the Vanishing Point which seems to separate "in here" from "out there," they will not continue advocating for that distinction in their discussions on theory and practice.

    Let everyone continue to experiment, and find out the truth for themselves. I have offered more than enough for the sincere seeker on this particular subject.
    He sums up my viewpoints quite eloquently and I doubt that I could have put up a better arguement.

    Come out or you will end up only fooling yourselves.
    Last edited by Dwellings; 08-09-2016 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    I want to ask:
    How can by merely meditating chakra kundalini Inner Alchemy or whatever mumbo jumbo you want to call it can you end up with insane amounts of Gold?
    You cannot. Because why the hell would one waste time doing that... those that hunt for physical gold are the fooled. Even if they get truckloads. Also your defenition of alchemy is your own, and you cannot claim authority over its meaning.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    You cannot. Because why the hell would one waste time doing that... those that hunt for physical gold are the fooled. Even if they get truckloads. Also your defenition of alchemy is your own, and you cannot claim authority over its meaning.

    1. What is wrong with hunting for huge amounts of Gold even if it takes time?

    2.Regarding the definition of alchemy
    Certainly not, ask among the public, you will get the same (many would have read Harry Potter) so there is that.

    3. When did I ever claimed I know the meaning or its authority? Can you point it out in my post?

    Well my aim is to use their data, their words and show that they are wrong. This is why I wrote the above definition.

  4. #4
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    As Harry Potter was brought up. It's worth talking about the fact that we could say that J.K.Rowling managed to, through Spiritual Alchemy, turn masses of paper into gold.
    Last edited by Loki Morningstar; 08-09-2016 at 08:28 PM.
    Distill fact from theory, fixate on inferences drawn.
    Upon which points does the mystery turn?
    "What's the matter?", one asks.
    "The universe is mental!", one replies.
    Know The Self.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    1. What is wrong with hunting for huge amounts of Gold even if it takes time?

    2.Regarding the definition of alchemy
    Certainly not, ask among the public, you will get the same (many would have read Harry Potter) so there is that.

    3. When did I ever claimed I know the meaning or its authority? Can you point it out in my post?
    1. If gold fulfills your life go for it.

    2. "The ancient study of alchemy is concerned with making the Sorcerer's Stone, a legendary substance with astonishing powers. The stone will transform any metal into pure gold. It also produces the Elixir of Life, which will make the drinker immortal." - from Harry Potter

    Basically Harry Potters view of alchemy is closer to your view of it than it is mine own... how ironic.

    3. I was simply saying that no one can own the definition, so just because you see it one way doesn't mean it makes it so for everyone else. You and I are not the authority... only the author of our on view on the matter.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #6
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    My belief is that the prima materia is the mind of the alchemist. The alchemists goal is to turn his mind into the stone by gathering as much information, about as many topics, as possible. The alchemist then has the ability to turn any material into gold (or money). The elixir of life is the useful knowledge he has distilled, which makes one immortal by sharing this knowledge, in the same way that great scientists are immortal.

    At the same time, we could say if an alchemist finds the 'true' stone, he may find ways of making himself actually immortal; either spiritually, or bodily. As he would have knowledge of the whole universe and its workings.
    Distill fact from theory, fixate on inferences drawn.
    Upon which points does the mystery turn?
    "What's the matter?", one asks.
    "The universe is mental!", one replies.
    Know The Self.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Morningstar View Post
    My belief is that the prima materia is the mind of the alchemist. The alchemists goal is to turn his mind into the stone by gathering as much information, about as many topics, as possible. The alchemist then has the ability to turn any material into gold (or money). The elixir of life is the useful knowledge he has distilled, which makes one immortal by sharing this knowledge, in the same way that great scientists are immortal.

    At the same time, we could say if an alchemist finds the 'true' stone, he may find ways of making himself actually immortal; either spiritually, or bodily. As he would have knowledge of the whole universe and its workings.
    No, you are way off the true path.

    In the alchemical process

    1. Why is there a violent fight at the begining?

    2. Why sometimes you need to prepare "Doves of Diana".

    How can you explain these in terms of what you have written.
    The fact is you cant.

    It also seems like you did not read the first post.
    Last edited by Dwellings; 08-10-2016 at 02:40 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    1. If gold fulfills your life go for it.

    2. "The ancient study of alchemy is concerned with making the Sorcerer's Stone, a legendary substance with astonishing powers. The stone will transform any metal into pure gold. It also produces the Elixir of Life, which will make the drinker immortal." - from Harry Potter

    Basically Harry Potters view of alchemy is closer to your view of it than it is mine own... how ironic.

    3. I was simply saying that no one can own the definition, so just because you see it one way doesn't mean it makes it so for everyone else. You and I are not the authority... only the author of our on view on the matter.

    The correct definition assuming somebody knows it will never be described in plain terms to anyone.

    I find it surprising that you will nitpick on the definition. That is more common in physicsforums when you come out with data proving that Einstein ws a fraud.

    Have you ever conducted a survey among local people, I have as a part of college project (Market Research on famous authors and their overall strategy for sales and marketing) and this was one of the questions and this is from where I came up with the above definiton
    Last edited by Dwellings; 08-10-2016 at 02:40 AM.

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    You will get different views if you do local market research about alchemy in, for example gold obsessed USA, compared to a place like India. Regardless the reason I focus on your definition is because it is how you define alchemy that cause you to denounce spiritual alchemy.

    Everything has an outer aspect (practical) and an inner aspect (spiritual). If focus is only on the practical all you have is form. Form without spirit is empty. Sure you can make gold either way, but I rather reach a state of peace than have all the gold in the world.

    When you reach a certain state of consciousness gold becomes no different than wood.

    I have also done a personal observation (not related to you in any way as I do not know who you are), but the most gold obsessed alchemists have two traits in common: they are Americans and they are "poor". I don't have any judgement on this. I just think it is interesting, because having lived in USA for a time I know that this society is obsessed with greed. And the "white trash" of the United States all think that money will solve all their problems. It won't.

    My own view of alchemy is the transmutation/transformation of the self into a higher state of being.

    Your view of alchemy is not wrong, I just disagree personally that Spiritual Alchemy is a hoax. I think a certain kind of practical alchemy is important, but the gold chasing alchemist... well I think "that" is the true joke.

    But it is true there is a lot of New Age-styled empty mumbo-jumbo spiritual alchemist gurus and those folks are indeed a hoax. So yes I agree in part with what you say. But there are child molesters who recycle, so there is good and bad in everyone/everything.

    Last edited by Awani; 08-10-2016 at 09:12 AM.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki Morningstar View Post
    My belief is that the prima materia is the mind of the alchemist. The alchemists goal is to turn his mind into the stone by gathering as much information, about as many topics, as possible. The alchemist then has the ability to turn any material into gold (or money). The elixir of life is the useful knowledge he has distilled, which makes one immortal by sharing this knowledge, in the same way that great scientists are immortal.

    At the same time, we could say if an alchemist finds the 'true' stone, he may find ways of making himself actually immortal; either spiritually, or bodily. As he would have knowledge of the whole universe and its workings.
    What you are proposing here is "magic", not "alchemy". Alchemy does not try to rely on any mysterious Jedi-like mind powers. Alchemy was a part of natural science, it relied on reactions between substances, which are not affected by ones wishes or ideas about them. They simply "are". They do not care one bit what one thinks or wishes, just like gravity doesn't care one bit what one thinks or wishes of it, it will just do "its thing" regardless of what one wants. The job of the alchemist was to find the correct substances, the correct proportions, and the correct reactions to manufacture the Stone.

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