Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path?

[Awani]

If you say that physical Alchemy is not real Alchemy, then what in the world would you go on to define as 'real Alchemy'?

Well the main problem with this discussion is the word itself. It's like saying: what is the real Christianity? Is is the Pope and his gang? Is it the Gnostics? The Russian Orthodox? Etc.

Alchemy is a word that defines a category I guess. Etymologically according to Wiki:

The word alchemy was borrowed from Old French... and which is in turn borrowed from Arabic... the Arabic word is borrowed from Late Greek chēmeía... ‘black magic’... this ancient Greek word was derived from the early Greek name for Egypt, based on the Egyptian name for Egypt... ‘black earth’... - source

SHAMANISM

My position is that the original source of any form of transmutation or transformation stems from the ancient art of Shamanism. A shaman uses methods to achieve various forms of results through either potions (laboratory alchemy) or other means (spiritual alchemy). Most "modern" humans that encountered shamanism viewed it - and still to this day it is viewed by some assholes - as "black magic".

So if alchemy is just an old word for "black magic", then alchemy is nothing more than the Art of Shamanism.


EGYPT

But even if all I have written now is wrong then let's look at Egypt.

Egypt is not the beginning of civilisation. The human race did not one day stop being Stone Age man and suddenly erect a few pyramids and elect a Pharaoh. Egypt is the END of an older civilisation... and it is from this "older" civilisation the alchemical art comes from. Egypt is a culture that is extremely spiritual. There is no doubt about this. Their whole culture was about "gods", "afterlife" and such things. Yes, they were also very interested in the physical matter of our world and thus created some amazing structures... but the reason for these is clearly in the realm of the "spiritual" of some sort.

So even if the word "alchemy" only comes from Egypt it is clearly not only about some "physical act".

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So what is REAL alchemy?

If it is about the transmutation/transformation of the self into a higher state then it is REAL alchemy.

This was the goal of the old Egyptians, as well as the goal of those involved with Shamanism. To create real gold is certainly not the purpose, and those that think it is are not alchemists in my book, but if they are in their own books that is none of my business.

In my humble opinion.

[zoas23]

Ha! Good point. Indeed, utilizing that line of deduction you certainly could say that meditating on philosophical alchemy has ultimately brought forth tons of gold.

I get the point of Dev, probably the least lab oriented person here.

Maybe the discussion is if alchemy IS about getting a lot of gold. I know some people think that way... and I wish them the best and I hope that they will get all the gold they want.

My own vision is that occidental alchemy (I can't talk about, say, Chinese alchemy, because it's not a subject that I understand) was born out of Gnosticism... and whilst I don't call the Gnostic texts "Alchemy", the resemblance is too obvious.

Donald Trump has more money than any alchemist ever had... I would not be his apprentice though. If we reduce alchemy to producing richness, then I'd say that Trump is by far more worth than anyone's favorite alchemy classic. So get his bio and maybe you'll get what you want.

But if you think that Alchemy is a philosophy... a way of understanding the universe... a way of understanding life... then probably Trump is not a character that inspires you.

[Awani]

I get the point of Dev, probably the least lab oriented person here.

Not entirely true. My cauldron and lab is my body... and many wonderous experiments can be performed with it. But yes, as for pseudo-Alchemy [chemistry] you are correct... not that into it. Unless I'm making some DMT (but actually got a life time supply at the moment, so I don't ever need to make that ever again).

[JDP]

Honestly the same can be said of Practical Alchemy: Call it what you want; "practical alchemy", "laboratory alchemy", etc. While useful and applicable in many ways...this is not real Alchemy.

No, you can't. Even if for argument's sake we assumed that the Philosophers' Stone does not exist and artificial transmutation is "impossible" short of having the atom-smashers devised by modern physics, you still cannot reverse the roles. So-called spiritual alchemy is a mistaken interpretation of the subject which is only about 2 or 3 (at most) centuries old, while alchemy (i.e. the issue of making the Philosophers' Stone and turning base metals into noble ones) is at least more than 2000 years old. Historical seniority alone shows that the fake and usurper here is the purely imaginary "spiritual alchemy" that came much later, the product of a mistaken understanding of the subject.

[elixirmixer]

Dev would be expressing more alchemical values than most, by treating his body as his laboritaory...

I do not plan on reading 18 pages of this thread, but would like to respond to the title of this thread.

Even with my beginner like attitude, my love for laboritory work, and my distaste for inactive principles and a lack of expression for the human evolution, I too must share, express, represent (for lack of better words) the deep inner truth that dev has touched on in this his last post. The body is indeed the true laboritory. You can learn all the secrets of alchemy, and still cheat yourself of all its blessings, if you do not learn and understand the the true Magnus Opus, occurs within the self... not as some fairytale, halucinagenic, dreamtime (although it does manafest itself as such in some stages of growth) but as a living, breathing, energy in the body, that is being spiritually cultivated in the same way that we think of the manafestation of SM, in order that you may become 'holy' or 'whole', having filled up the 'light vessels' within the body...

Modern Christianity is fucked, because while their 'religion' does indeed encapsulate the entire truth, much like alchemy itself, Christianity is only know in its fullness, by a very select few.

Jesus: "I have chosen you, one in a thousand, and two in ten thousand"

Jesus:"It is given to you, to know the dominions of the heavens, but to these, it is not given.

[Coleridgean]

...So-called spiritual alchemy is a mistaken interpretation of the subject which is only about 2 or 3 (at most) centuries old...

I'd say 4+ centuries old, beginning with the publication of the Alchymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz, or even as far back as John Dee's Monad (Monas Hieroglyphica). And in the King James Bible (ye are the salt of the Earth) ... so it is a legitimate complement to English literature and deserves a moniker of its own, but we could equally call it Renaissance Hermeticism.

However, even Zosimus in about the 5th century A.D. was interpreting dreams by his alchemical experiment.

[Schmuldvich]

As for pseudo-Alchemy [chemistry] you are correct... not that into it. Unless I'm making some DMT (but actually got a life time supply at the moment, so I don't ever need to make that ever again).

Extracting your own DMT is no doubt a rewarding experience. In the past I have used mimosa hostilis root bark with great success. What is your go-to source of DMT when extracting it yourself, dev?

No, you can't say "Honestly the same can be said of Practical Alchemy: Call it what you want; "practical alchemy", "laboratory alchemy", etc. While useful and applicable in many ways...this is not real Alchemy." Even if for argument's sake we assumed that the Philosophers' Stone does not exist and artificial transmutation is "impossible" short of having the atom-smashers devised by modern physics, you still cannot reverse the roles.

So-called spiritual alchemy is a mistaken interpretation of the subject which is only about 2 or 3 (at most) centuries old, while alchemy (i.e. the issue of making the Philosophers' Stone and turning base metals into noble ones) is at least more than 2000 years old.

Historical seniority alone shows that the fake and usurper here is the purely imaginary "spiritual alchemy" that came much later, the product of a mistaken understanding of the subject.

Yes! What JDP is saying here is fact: "spiritual alchemy" is a new phenomenon only a couple hundred years old, whereas the real art of Alchemy is way more than 2,000 years old. So-called "spiritual alchemy" is a completely modern invention.

Don't believe us? Go ahead and search for the words "spiritual alchemy", or even "inner alchemy" or "philosophical alchemy", in any old Alchemy treatise. You will not find one single instance where any of these terms are ever used.

Dev would be expressing more alchemical values than most, by treating his body as his laboritaory...

In what way is dev expressing more Alchemical values here than most by "treating his body as his laboratory"?

You can learn all the secrets of alchemy, and still cheat yourself of all its blessings, if you do not learn and understand the the true Magnus Opus, occurs within the self...

How can someone possibly "learn all the secrets of alchemy and still cheat himself of all its blessings"? This statement makes little sense, elixirmixer. If a person learns all the secrets of Alchemy would they not be in complete control of themselves and the world around them?

The term you were attempting to use above is not "Magnus" Opus. The correct term is Magnum Opus. Do you know what this is?

A magnum opus is 'a large and important work of art, music, or literature, especially one regarded as the most important work of an artist or writer'. Notice that last part of the definition. Our Magnum Opus as Alchemists is what we call the Great Work. The goal of the Great Work is the production of the Philosopher's Stone.

Why do you say that the true Magnum Opus occurs within the self when it is clear that our Magnum Opus is the successful accomplishment of the physical, tangible Philosopher's Stone here on Earth?

[Awani]

Extracting your own DMT is no doubt a rewarding experience. In the past I have used mimosa hostilis root bark with great success. What is your go-to source of DMT when extracting it yourself, dev?

For further discussion on this topic: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...traction-Guide
Or: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...690-DMT-Report

Short answer same as you, but have Acacia also. If you want to continue this topic see above threads or create new one in "Shamanism" section.

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...whereas the real art of Alchemy is way more than 2,000 years old. So-called "spiritual alchemy" is a completely modern invention.

Don't believe us? Go ahead and search for the words "spiritual alchemy", or even "inner alchemy" or "philosophical alchemy", in any old Alchemy treatise. You will not find one single instance where any of these terms are ever used.

The answer to this is simple. They did not seperate the two aspects in those days, as we do today. To them it was simply "alchemy"... in fact the original alchemy might not even have been called alchemy at all...

And as I have stated earlier I think alchemy is an offspring of shamanism (and shamanism is also a modern word). But we need words to discuss so let's ignore the actual words.

Shamanism is both practical and spiritual. As is alchemy. If an alchemist is ONLY approaching alchemy from a practical perspective it is - in my opinion - pseudo-Chemistry.

"Thoughts create a new heaven, a new firmament, a new source of energy, from which new arts flow." - Paracelsus

“Imagination is a great power, and if the world knew what strange things can be produced by the power of imagination, the public authorities would cause idle people to go to work.” - Paracelsus

But is Spiritual Alchemy a valid path? Only those on it can say if it is or not.

[Andro]

Note: Continued from HERE
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Hermetically sealed means to retain the energy within and not spill it, not actually retaining chemicals in a laboratory vial. It also refers to the secrecy surrounding the esoteric knowledge, which all secret societies and mystery schools have practiced. You must be hermetically sealed and not spill your energy nor the secrets of the work to anyone who isn't ready to hear it.

That's probably in the context of sexual/tantric practices?

In lab alchemy, it can mean that the 'cooked' mattes are fully unified and inseparable (i.e. 'hermetically sealed' together).

Anyway, there's more than one meaning/interpretation for this term.

Google, for example, translates 'hermetic' as 'airtight' - so when you see a post ending with 'airtight greetings', you can pretty much assume they're using Google Translate

[JDP]

That's probably in the context of sexual/tantric practices?

Which are in fact not "alchemy" at all. Once again an example of hijacking of the word "alchemy" and its specialized terms by people with strange beliefs who refuse to accept what alchemy was and has always been, viz. making the Philosophers' Stone (which is an actual substance, physical and tangible, not some intangible mystical concept, and it is made by a series of appropriate laboratory operations on the right combination of substances, not by mental/spiritual ruminations, or withholding ejaculation, or what have you.)