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Thread: Short Dry Path (Ars Brevis)

  1. #201
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    Meanwhile I wonder what is the need for procuring the secret solvent when you can reach the end without procuring the same.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Meanwhile I wonder what is the need for procuring the secret solvent when you can reach the end without procuring the same.
    Why do you believe that the end can be reached without the secret solvent/alkahest?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Why do you believe that the end can be reached without the secret solvent/alkahest?
    Keyword if you read what I have written again, being "Procuring".

    I never said that secret solvent never enters the work.

    I devoted an entire threadhttp://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...hemical-Tracts dedicated to showing everyone the easier way to work.

    To simplify Illen what I wanted to say, I know that God created a matter which is a mineral which is between one state and the other. I will simply take the matter, remove its superfluities and perfect it to the stone. I will do this by initially setting it up and then going my own way and returning after 8-9 months to collect the finished stone through a simple process.

    While you and many others who want to procure the secret solvent will first subject themselves to a hard fight from which they may die or suffer serious injury and then perform Doves of Diana and sulfur extraction. In short from begining to end, you will subject yourself to heavy toil while I enjoy my life with just a day of hard work involving setting up the entire thing. Carefully consider what I have written, and if you choose to execute it practically thank God for having shown you the light and also thank him for preventing you to subjecting to needless toil.


    Open Entrance
    because the Sages in writing of these ways as two ways, purposely obscure the fact that they are only one way (though of course the one is more direct than the other). The gold of the Sages may then be prepared out of our common gold and our Mercury, from which there may afterwards be obtained by repeated liquefactions, Sulphur and Quicksilver which is incombustible, and tinges all things else. In this sense, our Stone is to be found in all metals and minerals, since our gold may be got from them all -- but most easily, of course, from gold and silver. Some have found it in tin, some in lead, but most of those who have pursued the more tedious method, have found it in gold. Of course, if our gold be prepared in the way I have described, out of common gold (in the course of 150 days), instead of being found ready made, it will not be so effectual, and the preparation of the Stone will take 1 1/2 years instead of 7 months. I know both ways, and prefer the shorter one; but I have described the longer one as well in order that I may not draw down upon myself the scathing wrath of the "Sages." The great difficulty which discourages all beginners is not of Nature's making: the Sages have created it by speaking of the longer operation when they mean the shorter one, and vice versa.

    Hence if you know our Art, extract our gold from our Mercury (this is the shorter way), and thus perform the whole operation with one substance (viz., Mercury); if you can do this, you will have attained to the perfection of philosophy. In this method, there is no superfluous trouble: the whole work, from beginning to end, is based upon one broad foundation -- whereas if you take common gold, you must operate on two substances, and both will have to be purified by an elaborate process. If you diligently consider what I have said, you have in your hand a means of unravelling all the apparent contradictions of the Sages.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Keyword if you read what I have written again, being "Procuring".

    I never said that secret solvent never enters the work.

    I devoted an entire threadhttp://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...hemical-Tracts dedicated to showing everyone the easier way to work.

    To simplify Illen what I wanted to say, I know that God created a matter which is a mineral which is between one state and the other. I will simply take the matter, remove its superfluities and perfect it to the stone. I will do this by initially setting it up and then going my own way and returning after 8-9 months to collect the finished stone through a simple process.

    While you and many others who want to procure the secret solvent will first subject themselves to a hard fight from which they may die or suffer serious injury and then perform Doves of Diana and sulfur extraction. In short from begining to end, you will subject yourself to heavy toil while I enjoy my life with just a day of hard work involving setting up the entire thing. Carefully consider what I have written, and if you choose to execute it practically thank God for having shown you the light and also thank him for preventing you to subjecting to needless toil.


    Open Entrance
    This scheme would be possible only if the secret solvent itself existed already made in some matter "out there", and you could employ it in this naturally-occurring form directly, or, as you propose, just by removing "superfluous" stuff attached to it. On top of that, the appropriate metallic/mineral "sulphur/soul/tincture" would also "coincidentally" have to be found already mixed with the secret solvent in this marvelous natural matter for you to be able to also make the Stone with it alone. But I am afraid all this might sound fine and dandy according to some theories/speculations, but it is really a technical impossibility. There is no such "matter" anywhere in nature already made for your convenience that just by simple "purifications" and "cooking" will make the Stone for you. If "it sounds too good to be true", then always safely assume that in fact it is! It seems like you are yet another modern seeker unfortunately caught up in the old "one matter only" fallacy, a devious "philosophical" trick devised by some mischievous alchemists to make as many as possible of what they considered "unworthy" seekers to waste their time and money on technical impossibilities.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    This scheme would be possible only if the secret solvent itself existed already made in some matter "out there", and you could employ it in this naturally-occurring form directly, or, as you propose, just by removing "superfluous" stuff attached to it. On top of that, the appropriate metallic/mineral "sulphur/soul/tincture" would also "coincidentally" have to be found already mixed with the secret solvent in this marvelous natural matter for you to be able to also make the Stone with it alone. But I am afraid all this might sound fine and dandy according to some theories/speculations, but it is really a technical impossibility. There is no such "matter" anywhere in nature already made for your convenience that just by simple "purifications" and "cooking" will make the Stone for you. If "it sounds too good to be true", then always safely assume that in fact it is! It seems like you are yet another modern seeker unfortunately caught up in the old "one matter only" fallacy, a devious "philosophical" trick devised by some mischievous alchemists to make as many as possible of what they considered "unworthy" seekers to waste their time and money on technical impossibilities.
    You did not read the quoted part of Open Entrance properly it seems. Anyway, I will requote it.

    Hence if you know our Art, extract our gold from our Mercury (this is the shorter way), and thus perform the whole operation with one substance (viz., Mercury); if you can do this, you will have attained to the perfection of philosophy. In this method, there is no superfluous trouble: the whole work, from beginning to end, is based upon one broad foundation -- whereas if you take common gold, you must operate on two substances, and both will have to be purified by an elaborate process.
    Also, JDP think about the birth of the mineral which you must know and also the birth of Gold. Do you really think Nature jumps through such hoops like us that is figuring out a secret solvent, then mercury and then sulfur. To her such things are bullshit. She follows a simple process which we can imitate. We will start where Nature stops and complete it to perfection thus achieving the stone. You are experienced enough to know what I meant by removing superfluities.

    The process of dabbling with mulitiple things (solvent, suflur etc.) is the invention of man not of Nature though both follows the same fundamental principles.

    If you clearly knew what our dragon is made of, what all things are hidden inside it, you would have never wrote the paragraph in the first place.

    .AB.INSOMNI.NON.CVSTODITA.DRACONE.

    Beside the dragon, which is watching, things are not guarded.

    The myth of the dragon in charge of the surveillance of the famous orchard and of the legendary Golden Fleece is known well enough to prevent us the trouble of repeating it. It suffices to point out that the dragon is chosen as the hieroglyphic representative of the crude mineral matter with which we must begin the Work. That is to indicate its significance, the care that we must bring to the study of the outer signs and of the qualities likely to make its identification possible, to help us recognize and distinguish the hermetic subject among the many minerals which nature places at our disposal.

    In charge of guarding the marvelous field, where philosophers go and get their treasures, the dragon is known to never sleep. His fiery eyes remain constantly open. He knows neither rest nor weariness and could not overcome the insomnia which characterizes it and grants it its true raison d’etre. This is actually what the Greek name it bears expresses. [*408-1] (Drakon) has for root [*408-2] (derchomai) to look and see, and by extension to live, a word close to [*408-3] (derchenes) who sleeps with open eyes. Primitive language reveals through the cloak of symbols, the idea of an intense activity, of a perpetual and latent vitality enclosed in the mineral body. Mythologists name our dragon Ladon, a word whose assonance comes close to Laton and which can be assimilated to the Greek [*408-4] (Leto) to be hidden, unknown, ignored like the matter of the philosophers.

    The dragon’s general appearance, its well-known ugliness, its ferocity, and its unusual vital power correspond exactly to the external characteristics, properties and capabilities of this subject. The special crystallization of the latter finds itself clearly indicated by the scaly skin of the dragon. So are its colors, for the matter is black, spotted red or yellow as is the dragon, which is its likeness. As for the volatile quality of our mineral, we see it translated by the membranous wings with which the monster is equipped. And because it is said that it vomits fore and smoke when attacked and that its body ends in a snakelike tail, poets, for these reasons, had him be born of Typhon and Echidna. The Greek [*408-5] (Tuphaon) a poetic term for [*408-6] (Tuphon) or [*408-7] (Tuphos) --- the Egyptian Typhon --- means to fill with smoke, to light, to set aflame. [*408-8] (Echidna) is nothing else than the viper. Hence we can conclude that what the dragon takes after from Typhon is its hot, ardent, and sulphurous nature while it owes to its mother its cold and wet complexion with the characteristic form of the ophidians.

    While the philosophers have always hidden the common name of their matter under an infinity of qualifiers, they were, on the other hand, often quite prolix as far as describing its form, its virtues, and sometimes even its preparation. By common consent, they assert that the artist must hope to discover nothing, nor produce anything outside of the subject because it is the only body in nature capable of providing him with the essential elements. To the exclusion of other minerals and other metals, it preserves the principles necessary to the elaboration of the Great Work. By its monstrous albeit expressive figuration, this primitive subject appears clearly as the guardian and the unique dispenser of the hermetic fruits. It is their depository, their vigilant preserver, and our Adept speaks wisely when he teaches us that apart from this solitary being, philosophical things are guarded by no one, since we might look in vain for them elsewhere. And about this first body, fragment of the original chaos and common mercury of the philosophers, Geber exclaimed: "Blessed be the Almighty, who created our mercury and who gave it a nature to which nothing resists; for, without it, the alchemists’ painstaking efforts would be in vain, all their labor would become useless".

    But, asks another Adept (3), "Where then is this aurific mercury which, resolved into salt and sulphur, becomes the humid radical of metals, and their animated see? It is imprisoned in a jail so strong that nature itself could not pull it out, if the industrious art did not facilitate the means for it".

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    You did not read the quoted part of Open Entrance properly it seems. Anyway, I will requote it.
    I read it all right, but I was more interested in what you were saying. But if you want to turn to what the "Open Entrance" says, let's do that and see that it also says this:

    https://ia902701.us.archive.org/35/i...hilalethes.pdf

    "Let them therefore know that our Water IS COMPOUNDED OF MANY THINGS, but yet it is but one thing MADE OF DIVERSE SUBSTANCES of one essence, that is to say, There is requisite in our Water; first of all, FIRE; secondly, THE LIQUOR OF THE VEGETABLE SATURNIA; thirdly, THE BOND OF MERCURY. The Fire is a MINERAL SULPHUR, and yet is not properly Mineral nor Metalline, but a middle between a Mineral and a Metal... our Fiery Dragon (who overcomes all things) is notwithstanding PENETRATED BY THE ODOR OF THE VEGETABLE SATURNIA, whose blood CONCRETES OR GROWS TOGETHER WITH THE JUICE OF SATURNIA, INTO ONE WONDERFUL BODY..." (pages 4 & 5)

    So Philalethes also openly says that several matters are used in these operations for making the Stone. He did not work with literally just "one thing/matter", that's pretty obvious.

    Regarding the claims about "our gold": Philalethes says a number of things, including apparently that it can supposedly be found already prepared "somewhere". Of course, he does not give much of any clues regarding where exactly is this thing supposedly found already conveniently made so that you can take a "short cut" instead of having to spend some time making it yourself. Which I strongly suspect is nothing but an empty bluff to try to impress his readers with some sort of super-secret that only he and maybe few others supposedly knew.

    Also, JDP think about the birth of the mineral which you must know and also the birth of Gold. Do you really think Nature jumps through such hoops like us that is figuring out a secret solvent, then mercury and then sulfur. To her such things are bullshit.
    Of course they seem so to nature, since it knows JACK-SQUAT about making the Stone. That's why it can't produce it. Just like it doesn't know (not that it needs to in the first place either) how to make TNT or Coca-Cola either.

    She follows a simple process which we can imitate. We will start where Nature stops and complete it to perfection thus achieving the stone.
    Since there is no evidence whatsoever that nature had any intention to make the Stone in the first place, this "philosophical" fairy tale falls flat on its face. The theoretical musings of many alchemists are simply silly and do not withstand even superficial scrutiny. Such claims would have some credibility if we could actually see that nature strives to produce at least something resembling the Stone, but there is no such thing found anywhere in nature.

    The process of dabbling with mulitiple things (solvent, suflur etc.) is the invention of man not of Nature though both follows the same fundamental principles.
    But that's exactly why NATURE CANNOT MAKE THE STONE (even if it wanted to, which there is no evidence whatsoever that it does.) It totally lacks the things and techniques that man has developed in order to be able to accomplish this. Just like nature never, not even in a million years, will be able to nitrate toluene and make TNT, for example. It totally lacks the means to carry out such operations herself. You yourself have provided the answer why the "follow nature" axiom IS A DEAD-END.

    If you clearly knew what our dragon is made of, what all things are hidden inside it, you would have never wrote the paragraph in the first place.
    If you knew that such a substance does not exist anywhere in nature already made for your convenience, and that it is obviously an ARTIFICIAL PRODUCTION OF MAN, and MADE BY EMPLOYING SEVERAL RAW MATTERS (and these nature DOES provide for you, though human industry also can), then you would never have written what you did in the first place.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I read it all right, but I was more interested in what you were saying. But if you want to turn to what the "Open Entrance" says, let's do that and see that it also says this:

    https://ia902701.us.archive.org/35/i...hilalethes.pdf

    "Let them therefore know that our Water IS COMPOUNDED OF MANY THINGS, but yet it is but one thing MADE OF DIVERSE SUBSTANCES of one essence, that is to say, There is requisite in our Water; first of all, FIRE; secondly, THE LIQUOR OF THE VEGETABLE SATURNIA; thirdly, THE BOND OF MERCURY. The Fire is a MINERAL SULPHUR, and yet is not properly Mineral nor Metalline, but a middle between a Mineral and a Metal... our Fiery Dragon (who overcomes all things) is notwithstanding PENETRATED BY THE ODOR OF THE VEGETABLE SATURNIA, whose blood CONCRETES OR GROWS TOGETHER WITH THE JUICE OF SATURNIA, INTO ONE WONDERFUL BODY..." (pages 4 & 5)

    So Philalethes also openly says that several matters are used in these operations for making the Stone. He did not work with literally just "one thing/matter", that's pretty obvious.

    Regarding the claims about "our gold": Philalethes says a number of things, including apparently that it can supposedly be found already prepared "somewhere". Of course, he does not give much of any clues regarding where exactly is this thing supposedly found already conveniently made so that you can take a "short cut" instead of having to spend some time making it yourself. Which I strongly suspect is nothing but an empty bluff to try to impress his readers with some sort of super-secret that only he and maybe few others supposedly knew.



    Of course they seem so to nature, since it knows JACK-SQUAT about making the Stone. That's why it can't produce it. Just like it doesn't know (not that it needs to in the first place either) how to make TNT or Coca-Cola either.



    Since there is no evidence whatsoever that nature had any intention to make the Stone in the first place, this "philosophical" fairy tale falls flat on its face. The theoretical musings of many alchemists are simply silly and do not withstand even superficial scrutiny. Such claims would have some credibility if we could actually see that nature strives to produce at least something resembling the Stone, but there is no such thing found anywhere in nature.



    But that's exactly why NATURE CANNOT MAKE THE STONE (even if it wanted to, which there is no evidence whatsoever that it does.) It totally lacks the things and techniques that man has developed in order to be able to accomplish this. Just like nature never, not even in a million years, will be able to nitrate toluene and make TNT, for example. It totally lacks the means to carry out such operations herself. You yourself have provided the answer why the "follow nature" axiom IS A DEAD-END.



    If you knew that such a substance does not exist anywhere in nature already made for your convenience, and that it is obviously an ARTIFICIAL PRODUCTION OF MAN, and MADE BY EMPLOYING SEVERAL RAW MATTERS (and these nature DOES provide for you, though human industry also can), then you would never have written what you did in the first place.
    Nature cannot make the stone because Nature directs the first matter to metallic kingdom while the stone is indeterminate, so must be directed to the kingdom in which you need to have action. Nature can produce the stone if she does not direct it to any kingdom. So perfection of the metallic kingdom is Gold which Nature reaches and the perfection of indeterminate is the stone which is what we reach. A subtle difference.

    Just wondering how many first matters are there. Also, how in the begining Nature must have created the first grams of Gold if the sulfur of Gold did not exist then and had to be created.

    If the first matter is single, then it follows that all other matters must be derivates of it, hence by a certain manipulation man must be able to obtain it. We need multiple matters only when we have multiple first matters which is a contradiction.

    Regarding Philalethes to quote his own words
    In this our work, our Diana is our body when it is mixed with the water, for then all is called the Moon; for Laton is whitened, and the Woman bears rule: our Diana hath a wood, for in the first days of the Stone, our Body after it is whitened grows vegetably. In this wood are at the last found two Doves; for about the end of three weeks the Soul of the Mercury ascends with the Soul of the dissolved Gold; these are infolded in the everlasting Arms of Venus, for in this season the confections are all tincted with a pure green colour; These Doves are circulated seven times, for in seven is perfection, and they are left dead, for they then rise and move no more; our Body is then black like to a Crow’s Bill, for in this operation all is turned to Powder, blacker than the blackest. Such passages as these we do oftentimes use when we speak of the Preparation of our Mercury; and this we do to deceive the simple, and it is also for no other end that we confound our operations, speaking of one, when we ought to speak of another; For if this Art were but plainly set down, our operations would be contemptible even to the foolish. Therefore believe me in this, that because our works are natural, we therefore do take the liberty to confound the Philosophers work with that which purely Natures work, that so we might keep the simple in ignorance concerning our true Vinegre, which being unknown, their labour is wholly lost.
    I have a feeling that you will focus the attention on the word vinegar & preparation of mercury from the quoted paragraph.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Nature cannot make the stone because Nature directs the first matter to metallic kingdom while the stone is indeterminate, so must be directed to the kingdom in which you need to have action. Nature can produce the stone if it does not direct it to any kingdom. So perfection of the metallic kingdom is Gold which Nature reaches and the perfection of indeterminate is the stone which is what we reach. A subtle difference.

    Just wondering how many first matters are there. Also, how in the begining Nature must have created the first grams of Gold if the sulfur of Gold did not exist then and had to be created.

    If the first matter is single, then it follows that all other matters must be derivates of it, hence by a certain manipulation man must be able to obtain it. We need multiple matters only when we have multiple first matters which is a contradiction.
    I think that you do realize that all this is theoretical speculation. There is no iota of proof that there is such thing as "indeterminate matter" anywhere on or in our planet, for example, or that nature has ever had any intention whatsoever to make the Stone. The alchemists would often come up with such fanciful theories, usually based on the theories of Aristotle regarding nature, to try to give their empirical "art" what they envisioned as more intellectual respectability by inserting these theories into their work. But what they were doing in their labs actually had very little to do with what we see nature actually do and produce.

    Regarding how nature makes gold: leaving aside not only the theories/conjectures/speculations of the alchemists & chymists, but also those of modern physics, the fact is that no one really knows how nature does it. But guess what? I have made small amounts of gold & silver by "chymical" processes that nature in its turn knows nothing about either. Does nature have crucibles, and cementation pots, and scorifiers, and cupels, and distillation & sublimation apparatuses, etc.? Nope, it does not. Yet I know several ways of making small amounts of gold & silver by using such equipment, which is the result of many centuries of accumulated human experience and ingenuity. So, do we really need to know how nature makes these metals? I don't think so. We can do it in our own ways. Alchemy is one of them. Chymistry is another.

    And even if we could figure out how nature makes them (and physics actually thinks it knows this), the odds are extremely likely that it would still serve us nothing because nature operates with different means & forces than we do. We just cannot command the same forces it employs to make & shape things, they are out of our reach, or they would cost too much to make such attempts profitable at all (in fact, this is what physics claims: it allegedly knows how nature does it, but the processes are so costly in energy that it's just not worth it for man to try to do the same.) Yet, on the other hand, nature itself is at odds at trying to perform what we can perform with our crucibles, retorts, flasks, beakers, etc. Nature has no such devices at its command and therefore it cannot manipulate matter in the same way we do. Therefore we can produce a whole bunch of stuff that nature itself simply will never be able to.

    Regarding Philalethes to quote his own words


    I have a feeling that you will focus the attention on the word vinegar & preparation of mercury from the quoted paragraph.
    Indeed, because the "true Vinegar" is just another decknamen for the secret solvent. Also, in that quote, when he says it is written to deceive, he is referring to the barrage of decknamen he uses in the description of the preparation. Without knowing the proper names of the actual matters involved in the operations, of course it will deceive many.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Nature cannot make the stone because Nature directs the first matter to metallic kingdom while the stone is indeterminate, so must be directed to the kingdom in which you need to have action. Nature can produce the stone if she does not direct it to any kingdom. So perfection of the metallic kingdom is Gold which Nature reaches and the perfection of indeterminate is the stone which is what we reach. A subtle difference.
    To add to this, this is the reason why the first matter or mineral that we must select in the begining must be between one state and the other. It should be between metallic and indeterminate. Metallic kingdom has some unique benefits eg: like its ability to withstand fire better than other kingdoms which means that the initial matter that we choose must be mineral in origin.

    JDP, I will reply to you in the morning. It's late in the night.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Keyword if you read what I have written again, being "Procuring".

    I never said that secret solvent never enters the work.
    Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying.

    To simplify Illen what I wanted to say, I know that God created a matter which is a mineral which is between one state and the other.
    Antimony?

    While you and many others who want to procure the secret solvent will first subject themselves to a hard fight from which they may die or suffer serious injury and then perform Doves of Diana and sulfur extraction.
    No, I assumed that you were not using the secret solvent at all. I'm not at all against the possibility that the matter may already contain the secret solvent in potential. If that's what the quotes you have provided state, then I will re-read them more carefully.

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