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Thread: Short Dry Path (Ars Brevis)

  1. #21
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    JDP and prejudice at all

    galena and dujol demonstration in the original historical documents

    YES
    So I just wanted to see that on dry process and materials as galena and operability of dujol magophon that many identify as a Fulcanelli head there
    both famous text with the command text of Dujols chrysopea commented and integral belonged to henri cotton Alvart disciple of dujol magophon I will try to attach this nb text is not censored as it is the version published by Dervy editions by gilbert here ...https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968

    I put pdf of the censored version published by Dervy editions http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (and the internal environment working with Canseliet knows this very well, but well if they look good to say about it below quote here a specialized web dsu champagne article etc much more on what circulates in French environments search of Fulcanelli and Canseliet)
    and also of galena etc dry lining and Dujols instructions there of great importance and undeniable historical truth and a laboratory of Dr. Emerit operational diary that goes from the years 1939 to 1945 when the dujol instructions and henri cotton Alvart are explicitly stated on dry process in which n 2 chysopea texts and diary of Dr. Emerit there are years and years of experiments under the guidance of heni coton Alvart of Dujols disciple but unfortunately without any serious result zero zero ..

    my best regard Alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::

    salve JDP e a tutti

    galena e dujol dimostrazione nei documenti originali storici

    dunque io volevo solo fare constatare che su via secca e materie come galena e operativita di dujol magophon che molti identificano come una testa di fulcanelli esistono
    sia famoso testo con l'istruzione operativa il testo di dujols chrysopea commentato e integrale appartenuto a henri coton alvart discepolo di dujol magophon che cercherò di allegare questo testo nb non è censurato come invece è la versione pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy da gilbert... https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968

    qui metto pdf della versione censurata pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (e il l'ambiente interno che lavorava con canseliet lo sa molto bene ma ben se ne guardano bene da dirlo a riguardo qui sotto riporto qui un articolo del web specializzato dsu champagne etc molto altro su cio circola negli ambienti francesi si ricerca su fulcanelli e canseliet )
    e inoltre su via secca galena etc e istruzioni di dujols esiste di grande importanza e di inoppugnabile e verità storica un diario operativo di laboratorio del dottor emerit che va dagli anni 1939 a 1945 in cui sono esplicitamente riportate le istruzioni di dujol e henri coton alvart sulla via secca n cui nei 2 testi chysopea e diario del dottor emerit ci sono anni e anni di esperimenti fatti sotto la guida di coton alvare discepolo di dujols ma senza purtroppo nessun serio risultato zero di zero ..

    my best regard alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    riporto qui dati poco conosciuti riguardo alle sperimentazioni su galena dujol e henri coton alvart e il suo discepolo doctor emerit

    dal web di ricerca su champagne ecco un post
    nb tutto l'articolo a questo link è molto interessante

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


    report here very little known about the trials and galena dujol henri cotton Alvart and his disciple doctor Emerit
    from web search of champagne here is a post

    nb whole article and the posts at this link is all very interesting

    http://www.archerjulienchampagne.com...e-3552044.html


    Rahamim05/03/2015 18:55Répondre

    Merci pour ces passages assez peu connu de la vie de Henri Coton.


    Pour ce qui me concerne, j'ai trouvé l'ouvrage "Deux lumière" trop intello, donc dénué de portée didactique.

    Je ne pense pas que les alchimistes d'avant le XXe siècle aient pu avoir autant de préoccupations philosophiques ou spirituelles, les vraies alchimistes étaient, pour la grande majorité, des "labourants" trop préoccupés à entretenir le feu de leurs fourneaux ou à potasser les vieux grimoires, pour perdre leur temps en vaines spéculations.


    En revanche je possède une copie manuscrite d'un carnet de notes du Dr Emerit qui, sous la direction de son maitre Henry Coton, a effectué un certain nombre d'opérations par voie sèche ayant une similitude troublante avec le manuscrit de Dujols publié dans "Propos sur la chrysopée", tant au niveau opératoire qu'au plan des matériaux mis en œuvre.

    Je voudrais ici faire une remarque, dans les deux manuscrits que je viens de citer, la matière première, le vieux dragon écailleux est nommé et, hélas, ce n'est pas du tout la stibine chère à Canseliet.

    Encore un mot, je ne voudrais pas paraitre irrévérencieux à l'égard de Fulcanelli, mais toujours à propos de la matière première des vieux adeptes, il ignore la véritable signification du mot "Kohl", on peut le vérifier dans "Le Mystère des Cathédrales" que je cite :


    "On sait que les alchimistes du XIVe siècle appelaient Kohl ou Kohol leur médecine universelle, des mots arabes al cohol, qui signifient poudre subtile, terme qui a pris plus tard, dans notre langue, le sens d’eau-de-vie (alcool). En arabe, Kohl est, dit-on, l’oxysulfure d’antimoine pulvérisé, qu’emploient les musulmanes pour se teindre les sourcils en noir. "

    Il est regrettable que le grand maître n'ait pas pris la peine de vérifier la signification du mot Kohl à la source !

    Je voudrais plutôt croire qu'il fut "envieux" au point de négliger ce détail d'une extrême importance.

    En arabe Kohl ou plus exactement Khohl, signifie "Noir" tout simplement, et naturellement El Khohl se rapporte à cette poudre subtile dont les femmes orientale se servent pour maquiller leurs paupières.

    Cette distinction permet de découvrir d'une manière radicale le nom de la véritable matière première, il suffit d'aller dans les souks marocains par exemple, pour s'en procurer; et, effectivement, il ne s'agit pas de stibine.

    Je me suis laissé abusé durant des années, Canseliet y est probablement pour une grande part.
    Last edited by alfr; 08-21-2016 at 03:59 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Regarding the first point: or maybe it was because Fulcanelli did not teach his pupils the entire secret. By reading Canseliet one does not get the impression that he lost respect for whoever Fulcanelli was, he always refers to him positively. Plus according to Canseliet, he used a sample of Fulcanelli's Stone to transmute lead into gold, the artist Julien Champagne and the chemist Gaston Sauvage serving as witnesses in the demonstration. Whether this claim is true or not, it shows that Canseliet did not question Fulcanelli's status as an "adept".
    I believe that Canseliet spoke about that transmutation incident, and about others more extraordinary tales as well (if I remember right he even said that he met Fulcanelli some yeara later in a castle and he looked many years younger than the last time he met him), because him, Champagne and others from that group, earned money from the sales of the books, so they wanted to keep the fairy tale of Fulcanelli alive.

    Think about that. If you had met an alchemist that was without doubt a real possessor of the Stone, and if he had given you a sample of the Stone and you had performed a transmutation with your own hands, will you spend the rest of your years working with antimony or some other substance, if that sage man had assured you that this certain substance has nothing to do with the work of the Stone?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellin Hermetist View Post
    I believe that Canseliet spoke about that transmutation incident, and about others more extraordinary tales as well (if I remember right he even said that he met Fulcanelli some yeara later in a castle and he looked many years younger than the last time he met him), because him, Champagne and others from that group, earned money from the sales of the books, so they wanted to keep the fairy tale of Fulcanelli alive.

    Think about that. If you had met an alchemist that was without doubt a real possessor of the Stone, and if he had given you a sample of the Stone and you had performed a transmutation with your own hands, will you spend the rest of your years working with antimony or some other substance, if that sage man had assured you that this certain substance has nothing to do with the work of the Stone?
    My understanding (and I stand corrected) is that Canseliet did not actually start with Antimony, but with Galena (Fulcanelli's "G" matter). He only switched to Antimony in 1945 after failing in all his numerous attempts with Galena, and thinking that Fulcanelli must really have meant Antimony in a hidden way, not Galena.

    For example see:

    https://gryendemorgonrodnaden.files....ck-dragon1.pdf

    where he says:

    "Some state that Canseliet initially worked with Galena (see following image of mineral “G”)
    until 1945 (i.e. at the time of the disappearance of Fulcanelli) but failing in his work with lead
    rejected it to embrace Stibnite, after meeting the Spanish alchemist José Gifreda. Being more
    successful he started to understand that Fulcanelli must actually have meant Antimony, and
    by “rejecting” it actually embraced it in the old traditional confusing manner of the old
    masters of the Art as to hide their secrets".

    Also, from deeply reading the nuances of the text, there seems little possibility that Canseliet wrote it. The style, words and experience certainly come from an older man, well versed in life, and with some degree of sophistication. That rules out both Canseliet and Champagne (who would have only been in his forties when the book was written, and who was not sophisticated, although he did seem to possess a good understanding of Alchemy already when he was 33 years of age).
    Last edited by Illen A. Cluf; 08-20-2016 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellin Hermetist View Post
    I believe that Canseliet spoke about that transmutation incident, and about others more extraordinary tales as well (if I remember right he even said that he met Fulcanelli some yeara later in a castle and he looked many years younger than the last time he met him), because him, Champagne and others from that group, earned money from the sales of the books, so they wanted to keep the fairy tale of Fulcanelli alive.

    Think about that. If you had met an alchemist that was without doubt a real possessor of the Stone, and if he had given you a sample of the Stone and you had performed a transmutation with your own hands, will you spend the rest of your years working with antimony or some other substance, if that sage man had assured you that this certain substance has nothing to do with the work of the Stone?
    Indeed, it is very difficult to reconcile the fact that Fulcanelli very plainly rejects antimony, either as stibninte or its "regulus", yet Canseliet, an alleged disciple, goes against the very teaching of his "master" and concentrates his work in this very substance. I wonder if Canseliet ever gave any explanations as to why he was not discouraged to work on antimony when his much admired "Fulcanelli" clearly rejected it. Does anyone know if Canseliet ever addressed this contradiction?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    My understanding (and I stand corrected) is that Canseliet did not actually start with Antimony, but with Galena (Fulcanelli's "G" matter). He only switched to Antimony in 1945 after failing in all his numerous attempts with Galena, and thinking that Fulcanelli must really have meant Antimony in a hidden way, not Galena.

    For example see:

    https://gryendemorgonrodnaden.files....ck-dragon1.pdf

    where he says:

    "Some state that Canseliet initially worked with Galena (see following image of mineral “G”)
    until 1945 (i.e. at the time of the disappearance of Fulcanelli) but failing in his work with lead
    rejected it to embrace Stibnite, after meeting the Spanish alchemist José Gifreda. Being more
    successful he started to understand that Fulcanelli must actually have meant Antimony, and
    by “rejecting” it actually embraced it in the old traditional confusing manner of the old
    masters of the Art as to hide their secrets".

    Also, from deeply reading the nuances of the text, there seems little possibility that Canseliet wrote it. The style, words and experience certainly come from an older man, well versed in life, and with some degree of sophistication. That rules out both Canseliet and Champagne (who would have only been in his forties when the book was written, and who was not sophisticated, although he did seem to possess a good understanding of Alchemy already when he was 33 years of age).
    The idea that galena is the matter that Fulcanelli worked with is a bit difficult to reconcile with some of the other things he says about the mineral substance that he claims is used to prepare the solvent. For example, in one place he describes it thus:

    "The dragon’s general appearance, its well-known ugliness, its ferocity, and its unusual vital power correspond exactly to the external characteristics, properties and capabilities of this subject. The special crystallization of the latter finds itself clearly indicated by the scaly skin of the dragon. So are its colors, for the matter is black, spotted red or yellow as is the dragon, which is its likeness. As for the volatile quality of our mineral, we see it translated by the membranous wings with which the monster is equipped. "

    With the only exception of the black color, none of these traits are characteristic of galena. And, of course, all these traits combined can fit quite more than just one mineral, so these "clues" don't exactly narrow it down too much.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The idea that galena is the matter that Fulcanelli worked with is a bit difficult to reconcile with some of the other things he says about the mineral substance that he claims is used to prepare the solvent. For example, in one place he describes it thus:

    "The dragon’s general appearance, its well-known ugliness, its ferocity, and its unusual vital power correspond exactly to the external characteristics, properties and capabilities of this subject. The special crystallization of the latter finds itself clearly indicated by the scaly skin of the dragon. So are its colors, for the matter is black, spotted red or yellow as is the dragon, which is its likeness. As for the volatile quality of our mineral, we see it translated by the membranous wings with which the monster is equipped. "

    With the only exception of the black color, none of these traits are characteristic of galena. And, of course, all these traits combined can fit quite more than just one mineral, so these "clues" don't exactly narrow it down too much.
    Don't get me wrong - I personally don't believe that Fulcanelli had Galena in mind at all (I believe it was a totally different substance). All I'm saying is that - for whatever reason - Canseliet was thought to have experimented with Galena until 1945, when he then changed to Antimony, and quite openly. I doubt if it was just because "galena" happened to start with the letter "G" which Fulcanelli stressed so much. The only commonality is that both can be considered a form of "Saturn" (lead). Saturn or his offspring/daughters could be a decnamen for many alchemical substances.

  7. #27
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    JDP , Illen A. Cluf , Hellin Hermetist and prejudice at all

    GALENA and dujol MANUSCRIPTS CHYSOPEA and DIARY OF DOCTOR EMERIT DISCIPLE OF H.C.A HENRI COTON ALVART of they work by the 1939 until the years 1945 demonstration in the original historical documents

    NOW canseliet certainly will have worked with GALENA and after many years of him work on the GALENA (NB ehe instruction on galena of chrysopea od dujol and the diay notebook of dr emerit of all years 1939b until 1945 arrived by pesonal archive of house of canseliet ) he changed IT with the ANTIMONY and sure this reason undoubtedly we must understand why change GALENA IN ANTIMONI ? ?

    even if mhio the figure of Canseliet and its theater he set up ..sulla figure of Fulcanelli etc does not inspire confidence at all
    but on the other hand one thing is certain and absolutely incontrovertible and this is that dujol very close to being the head of HCA Fulcanelli andthe His direct disciple Enri Coton Alvart noche his cabinet button disciple doctor Emerit have all worked with GALENA and this is demonstrated by incontrovertible and indisputable laboratory diaries extremely clear and explicit enough on the operability and bearing years and years of experience made with galena all recorded in diaries from 1939 to 1945 and that they are all experiments performed with GALENA and this is incontrovertibly proven by manuscripts with instructions transmitted by master to disciple (and NB this is very clearly stated in the diaries) and these diaries and all instructions on the galena are incontrovertible and indisputable historical testimony



    So I just wanted to see that on dry process and materials as galena and operability of dujol magophon that many identify as a Fulcanelli head there
    both famous text with the command text of Dujols chrysopea commented and integral belonged to henri cotton Alvart disciple of dujol magophon I will try to attach this nb text is not censored as it is the version published by Dervy editions by gilbert here ...https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968
    (CENSORED because the text published that I have attached here were omitted the names of substances in the original INSTEAD of henri cotton Alvart the qule received him from Dujols instead the names of the subjects of the work to get the chrisopea are all well aware GALENA ETC)
    I put pdf of the censored version published by Dervy editions http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (and the internal environment working with Canseliet knows this very well, but well if they look good to say about it below quote here a specialized web dsu champagne article etc much more on what circulates in French environments search of Fulcanelli and Canseliet)
    and also of galena etc dry lining and Dujols instructions there of great importance and undeniable historical truth and a laboratory of Dr. Emerit operational diary that goes from the years 1939 to 1945 when the dujol instructions and henri cotton Alvart are explicitly stated on dry process in which n 2 chysopea texts and diary of Dr. Emerit there are years and years of experiments under the guidance of heni coton Alvart of Dujols disciple but unfortunately without any serious result zero zero ..

    my best regard Alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::

    JDP , Illen A. Cluf , Hellin Hermetist and prejudice at all

    GALENA and dujol MANUSCRIPTS CHYSOPEA and DIARY OF DOCTOR EMERIT DISCIPLE OF H.C.A HENRI COTON ALVART of they work by the 1939 until the years 1945 demonstration in the original historical documents

    galena e dujol dimostrazione nei documenti originali storici

    ORA certo canseliet avra lavorato con galena e poi cambiato con l'antimonio e il perchè è indubbiamente da capire anche se mhio la figura di canseliet e il suo teatro da lui allestito ..sulla figura di fulcanelli etc non ispira fiducia per nulla
    ma per contro un fatto è certo e assolutamente inoppugnabile ed questo è che dujol molto vicino ad essere testa di fulcanelli HCA eil suo diretto discepolo Enri Coton Alvart noche il suo dietto discepolo doctor emerit hanno tutti lavorato con la GALENA e cio lo dimostrano inoppugnabili e indiscutibili diari di laboratorio estremamente chiari ed espliciti sulla operativita basti e riportanti anni e anni di sperimenti fatti con la galena tutti registrati in diari da 1939 agli anni 1945 e che sono tutti esperimenti effettuati con la GALENA e cio è inoppugnabilmente testimoniato da manoscritti con istruzioni trasmesse da maestro a discepolo (e NB cio nei diari viene detto molto chiaramente) e questi diari e istruzioni tutti sulla galena ne sono inoppugnabile e indiscutibile testimonianza storica .

    dunque io volevo solo fare constatare che su via secca e materie come galena e operativita di dujol magophon che molti identificano come una testa di fulcanelli esistono
    sia famoso testo con l'istruzione operativa il testo di dujols chrysopea commentato e integrale appartenuto a henri coton alvart discepolo di dujol magophon che cercherò di allegare questo testo nb non è censurato come invece è la versione pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy da gilbert... https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968
    (CENSURATO perche nel testo pubblicato che qui ho allegato sono stati omessi il nomi delle materie INVECE nell'originale di henri coton alvart il qule lo ricevette da dujols invece i nomi delle materie dell'opera per ottenere la chrisopea sono tutti ben presenti GALENA ETC )

    qui metto pdf della versione censurata pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (e il l'ambiente interno che lavorava con canseliet lo sa molto bene ma ben se ne guardano bene da dirlo a riguardo qui sotto riporto qui un articolo del web specializzato dsu champagne etc molto altro su cio circola negli ambienti francesi si ricerca su fulcanelli e canseliet )
    e inoltre su via secca galena etc e istruzioni di dujols esiste di grande importanza e di inoppugnabile e verità storica un diario operativo di laboratorio del dottor emerit che va dagli anni 1939 a 1945 in cui sono esplicitamente riportate le istruzioni di dujol e henri coton alvart sulla via secca n cui nei 2 testi chysopea e diario del dottor emerit ci sono anni e anni di esperimenti fatti sotto la guida di coton alvare discepolo di dujols ma senza purtroppo nessun serio risultato zero di zero ..

    my best regard alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    riporto qui dati molto poco conosciuti riguardo alle sperimentazioni su galena dujol e henri coton alvart e il suo discepolo doctor emerit

    dal web di ricerca su champagne ecco un post
    nb tutto l'articolo a questo link è molto interessante

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


    report here very little known about the trials and galena dujol henri cotton Alvart and his disciple doctor Emerit
    from web search of champagne here is a post

    nb whole article and the posts at this link is all very interesting

    http://www.archerjulienchampagne.com...e-3552044.html

    08/07/2016 17:44Répondre

    HCA avait donné à chacun de ses disciples et de ses amis des éléments de ses travaux et recherches. Sans doute cela était suffisant pour permettre à chacun de travailler sur l'oeuvre.
    Le problème c'est que certains n'ont rien trouvé de mieux que de publier ses travaux en rompant le pacte moral qui accompagnait leur détention. C'est triste à tous les points de vue.




    Rahamim05/03/2015 18:55Répondre

    Merci pour ces passages assez peu connu de la vie de Henri Coton.


    Pour ce qui me concerne, j'ai trouvé l'ouvrage "Deux lumière" trop intello, donc dénué de portée didactique.

    Je ne pense pas que les alchimistes d'avant le XXe siècle aient pu avoir autant de préoccupations philosophiques ou spirituelles, les vraies alchimistes étaient, pour la grande majorité, des "labourants" trop préoccupés à entretenir le feu de leurs fourneaux ou à potasser les vieux grimoires, pour perdre leur temps en vaines spéculations.


    En revanche je possède une copie manuscrite d'un carnet de notes du Dr Emerit qui, sous la direction de son maitre Henry Coton, a effectué un certain nombre d'opérations par voie sèche ayant une similitude troublante avec le manuscrit de Dujols publié dans "Propos sur la chrysopée", tant au niveau opératoire qu'au plan des matériaux mis en œuvre.

    Je voudrais ici faire une remarque, dans les deux manuscrits que je viens de citer, la matière première, le vieux dragon écailleux est nommé et, hélas, ce n'est pas du tout la stibine chère à Canseliet.

    Encore un mot, je ne voudrais pas paraitre irrévérencieux à l'égard de Fulcanelli, mais toujours à propos de la matière première des vieux adeptes, il ignore la véritable signification du mot "Kohl", on peut le vérifier dans "Le Mystère des Cathédrales" que je cite :


    "On sait que les alchimistes du XIVe siècle appelaient Kohl ou Kohol leur médecine universelle, des mots arabes al cohol, qui signifient poudre subtile, terme qui a pris plus tard, dans notre langue, le sens d’eau-de-vie (alcool). En arabe, Kohl est, dit-on, l’oxysulfure d’antimoine pulvérisé, qu’emploient les musulmanes pour se teindre les sourcils en noir. "

    Il est regrettable que le grand maître n'ait pas pris la peine de vérifier la signification du mot Kohl à la source !

    Je voudrais plutôt croire qu'il fut "envieux" au point de négliger ce détail d'une extrême importance.

    En arabe Kohl ou plus exactement Khohl, signifie "Noir" tout simplement, et naturellement El Khohl se rapporte à cette poudre subtile dont les femmes orientale se servent pour maquiller leurs paupières.

    Cette distinction permet de découvrir d'une manière radicale le nom de la véritable matière première, il suffit d'aller dans les souks marocains par exemple, pour s'en procurer; et, effectivement, il ne s'agit pas de stibine.

    Je me suis laissé abusé durant des années, Canseliet y est probablement pour une grande part.
    Last edited by alfr; 08-21-2016 at 04:47 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Also, from deeply reading the nuances of the text, there seems little possibility that Canseliet wrote it. The style, words and experience certainly come from an older man, well versed in life, and with some degree of sophistication. That rules out both Canseliet and Champagne (who would have only been in his forties when the book was written, and who was not sophisticated, although he did seem to possess a good understanding of Alchemy already when he was 33 years of age).
    A man in his forties has all the possibilities to be well versed in life, and can quite easily be the author of the two books ascribed in Fulcanelli, especially if he has shown that he possess a good grasping of the alchemical literature as early as the age of 33. I wouldnt say that any of the two books are revelatroy. The concept of the destruction of two bodies (a mineral and a metal) to extract a mercury is taken from the Hermetic Triumph of St Didier. The mondus operandi, as described in many different chapters, is taken from the Lullian corpus. The particulars are taken from Naxagoras and some other authors, and some of them, that is promised that can lead to transmutation (eg: tinge gold by melt it several times with copper and tinge silver with the red gold) are erroneous. The theoretical conceptions about phlogiston theory are also taken from older authors, who have written whole treatises about that theory. The only prototype theory in the books is that of ancient Greek cabal hidden inside the alchemical corpus, which is also erroneous. There was an ancient Greek cabal but not under the form which Fulcanelli presents. So, at the end of the day, I dont think that the books have the value that have been ascribed to them.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellin Hermetist View Post
    A man in his forties has all the possibilities to be well versed in life, and can quite easily be the author of the two books ascribed in Fulcanelli, especially if he has shown that he possess a good grasping of the alchemical literature as early as the age of 33.
    The idea that Canseliet was the WHOLE of Fulcanelli does not make sense to me. Fulcanelli was either his teacher or a "collective person" (several writers, probably 3, writing as one... with one of them being Canseliet).

    If there is something in common between Fulcanelli and Canseliet is their love for Art (architecture, paintings, sculpture, non-alchemical literature)... and maybe that's their greatest contribution (to be somehow the pioneers of analyzing Art from an alchemical point of view... of course, they were not the first ones, the Splendor Solis was doing it in a different way and there are other examples too... but they did it as the basis of their teachings). This somehow lead to the creation of a "new school" of writers who wrote essays about art from an alchemical point of view (Maurizio Calvesi is my favorite example... if you like contemporary art, do not miss his book on Duchamp).

    If you examine that part of their texts, then you'll find that Fulcanelli was quite similar in his artistic tastes to someone like Rene Guenon (pardon me for bringing such a horrible name here): the history of art and the true traditions "finish" with the Renaissance... what comes with the Renaissance and later is "bullshit" to them. Of course, that's the ONLY thing they shared... otherwise they are very different.

    Canseliet was by far more "playful" and LOVED the Renaissance AND contemporary art (he was hanging around with the Surrealist Group).

    So it doesn't make sense to me to imagine someone writing two books to explain why "punk rock" was the worst thing that happened to music under a pen name (Fulcanelli)... and then writing under his real name (Canseliet) a set of other books praising "punk rock" and explaining why it's the best thing that happened to music (this is a metaphor).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfr View Post
    JDP , Illen A. Cluf , Hellin Hermetist and prejudice at all

    GALENA and dujol MANUSCRIPTS CHYSOPEA and DIARY OF DOCTOR EMERIT DISCIPLE OF H.C.A HENRI COTON ALVART of they work by the 1939 until the years 1945 demonstration in the original historical documents

    NOW canseliet certainly will have worked with GALENA and after many years of him work on the GALENA (NB ehe instruction on galena of chrysopea od dujol and the diay notebook of dr emerit of all years 1939b until 1945 arrived by pesonal archive of house of canseliet ) he changed IT with the ANTIMONY and sure this reason undoubtedly we must understand why change GALENA IN ANTIMONI ? ?

    even if mhio the figure of Canseliet and its theater he set up ..sulla figure of Fulcanelli etc does not inspire confidence at all
    but on the other hand one thing is certain and absolutely incontrovertible and this is that dujol very close to being the head of HCA Fulcanelli andthe His direct disciple Enri Coton Alvart noche his cabinet button disciple doctor Emerit have all worked with GALENA and this is demonstrated by incontrovertible and indisputable laboratory diaries extremely clear and explicit enough on the operability and bearing years and years of experience made with galena all recorded in diaries from 1939 to 1945 and that they are all experiments performed with GALENA and this is incontrovertibly proven by manuscripts with instructions transmitted by master to disciple (and NB this is very clearly stated in the diaries) and these diaries and all instructions on the galena are incontrovertible and indisputable historical testimony



    So I just wanted to see that on dry process and materials as galena and operability of dujol magophon that many identify as a Fulcanelli head there
    both famous text with the command text of Dujols chrysopea commented and integral belonged to henri cotton Alvart disciple of dujol magophon I will try to attach this nb text is not censored as it is the version published by Dervy editions by gilbert here ...https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968
    (CENSORED because the text published that I have attached here were omitted the names of substances in the original INSTEAD of henri cotton Alvart the qule received him from Dujols instead the names of the subjects of the work to get the chrisopea are all well aware GALENA ETC)
    I put pdf of the censored version published by Dervy editions http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (and the internal environment working with Canseliet knows this very well, but well if they look good to say about it below quote here a specialized web dsu champagne article etc much more on what circulates in French environments search of Fulcanelli and Canseliet)
    and also of galena etc dry lining and Dujols instructions there of great importance and undeniable historical truth and a laboratory of Dr. Emerit operational diary that goes from the years 1939 to 1945 when the dujol instructions and henri cotton Alvart are explicitly stated on dry process in which n 2 chysopea texts and diary of Dr. Emerit there are years and years of experiments under the guidance of heni coton Alvart of Dujols disciple but unfortunately without any serious result zero zero ..

    my best regard Alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::

    JDP , Illen A. Cluf , Hellin Hermetist and prejudice at all

    GALENA and dujol MANUSCRIPTS CHYSOPEA and DIARY OF DOCTOR EMERIT DISCIPLE OF H.C.A HENRI COTON ALVART of they work by the 1939 until the years 1945 demonstration in the original historical documents

    galena e dujol dimostrazione nei documenti originali storici

    ORA certo canseliet avra lavorato con galena e poi cambiato con l'antimonio e il perchè è indubbiamente da capire anche se mhio la figura di canseliet e il suo teatro da lui allestito ..sulla figura di fulcanelli etc non ispira fiducia per nulla
    ma per contro un fatto è certo e assolutamente inoppugnabile ed questo è che dujol molto vicino ad essere testa di fulcanelli HCA eil suo diretto discepolo Enri Coton Alvart noche il suo dietto discepolo doctor emerit hanno tutti lavorato con la GALENA e cio lo dimostrano inoppugnabili e indiscutibili diari di laboratorio estremamente chiari ed espliciti sulla operativita basti e riportanti anni e anni di sperimenti fatti con la galena tutti registrati in diari da 1939 agli anni 1945 e che sono tutti esperimenti effettuati con la GALENA e cio è inoppugnabilmente testimoniato da manoscritti con istruzioni trasmesse da maestro a discepolo (e NB cio nei diari viene detto molto chiaramente) e questi diari e istruzioni tutti sulla galena ne sono inoppugnabile e indiscutibile testimonianza storica .

    dunque io volevo solo fare constatare che su via secca e materie come galena e operativita di dujol magophon che molti identificano come una testa di fulcanelli esistono
    sia famoso testo con l'istruzione operativa il testo di dujols chrysopea commentato e integrale appartenuto a henri coton alvart discepolo di dujol magophon che cercherò di allegare questo testo nb non è censurato come invece è la versione pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy da gilbert... https://www.amazon.fr/Chrysop%C3%A9e.../dp/2850766968
    (CENSURATO perche nel testo pubblicato che qui ho allegato sono stati omessi il nomi delle materie INVECE nell'originale di henri coton alvart il qule lo ricevette da dujols invece i nomi delle materie dell'opera per ottenere la chrisopea sono tutti ben presenti GALENA ETC )

    qui metto pdf della versione censurata pubblicata dalle edizioni dervy http://www.labirintoermetico.com/01A..._Chrysopee.pdf
    (e il l'ambiente interno che lavorava con canseliet lo sa molto bene ma ben se ne guardano bene da dirlo a riguardo qui sotto riporto qui un articolo del web specializzato dsu champagne etc molto altro su cio circola negli ambienti francesi si ricerca su fulcanelli e canseliet )
    e inoltre su via secca galena etc e istruzioni di dujols esiste di grande importanza e di inoppugnabile e verità storica un diario operativo di laboratorio del dottor emerit che va dagli anni 1939 a 1945 in cui sono esplicitamente riportate le istruzioni di dujol e henri coton alvart sulla via secca n cui nei 2 testi chysopea e diario del dottor emerit ci sono anni e anni di esperimenti fatti sotto la guida di coton alvare discepolo di dujols ma senza purtroppo nessun serio risultato zero di zero ..

    my best regard alfr

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    riporto qui dati molto poco conosciuti riguardo alle sperimentazioni su galena dujol e henri coton alvart e il suo discepolo doctor emerit

    dal web di ricerca su champagne ecco un post
    nb tutto l'articolo a questo link è molto interessante

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


    report here very little known about the trials and galena dujol henri cotton Alvart and his disciple doctor Emerit
    from web search of champagne here is a post

    nb whole article and the posts at this link is all very interesting

    http://www.archerjulienchampagne.com...e-3552044.html

    08/07/2016 17:44Répondre

    HCA avait donné à chacun de ses disciples et de ses amis des éléments de ses travaux et recherches. Sans doute cela était suffisant pour permettre à chacun de travailler sur l'oeuvre.
    Le problème c'est que certains n'ont rien trouvé de mieux que de publier ses travaux en rompant le pacte moral qui accompagnait leur détention. C'est triste à tous les points de vue.




    Rahamim05/03/2015 18:55Répondre

    Merci pour ces passages assez peu connu de la vie de Henri Coton.


    Pour ce qui me concerne, j'ai trouvé l'ouvrage "Deux lumière" trop intello, donc dénué de portée didactique.

    Je ne pense pas que les alchimistes d'avant le XXe siècle aient pu avoir autant de préoccupations philosophiques ou spirituelles, les vraies alchimistes étaient, pour la grande majorité, des "labourants" trop préoccupés à entretenir le feu de leurs fourneaux ou à potasser les vieux grimoires, pour perdre leur temps en vaines spéculations.


    En revanche je possède une copie manuscrite d'un carnet de notes du Dr Emerit qui, sous la direction de son maitre Henry Coton, a effectué un certain nombre d'opérations par voie sèche ayant une similitude troublante avec le manuscrit de Dujols publié dans "Propos sur la chrysopée", tant au niveau opératoire qu'au plan des matériaux mis en œuvre.

    Je voudrais ici faire une remarque, dans les deux manuscrits que je viens de citer, la matière première, le vieux dragon écailleux est nommé et, hélas, ce n'est pas du tout la stibine chère à Canseliet.

    Encore un mot, je ne voudrais pas paraitre irrévérencieux à l'égard de Fulcanelli, mais toujours à propos de la matière première des vieux adeptes, il ignore la véritable signification du mot "Kohl", on peut le vérifier dans "Le Mystère des Cathédrales" que je cite :


    "On sait que les alchimistes du XIVe siècle appelaient Kohl ou Kohol leur médecine universelle, des mots arabes al cohol, qui signifient poudre subtile, terme qui a pris plus tard, dans notre langue, le sens d’eau-de-vie (alcool). En arabe, Kohl est, dit-on, l’oxysulfure d’antimoine pulvérisé, qu’emploient les musulmanes pour se teindre les sourcils en noir. "

    Il est regrettable que le grand maître n'ait pas pris la peine de vérifier la signification du mot Kohl à la source !

    Je voudrais plutôt croire qu'il fut "envieux" au point de négliger ce détail d'une extrême importance.

    En arabe Kohl ou plus exactement Khohl, signifie "Noir" tout simplement, et naturellement El Khohl se rapporte à cette poudre subtile dont les femmes orientale se servent pour maquiller leurs paupières.

    Cette distinction permet de découvrir d'une manière radicale le nom de la véritable matière première, il suffit d'aller dans les souks marocains par exemple, pour s'en procurer; et, effectivement, il ne s'agit pas de stibine.

    Je me suis laissé abusé durant des années, Canseliet y est probablement pour une grande part.
    I would like some clarification regarding your position: are you suggesting that Dujols was "Fulcanelli" or just that he had an influence on him? Unfortunately, I can't fully understand all the contents of your posts so I have to wonder about this point since you keep insisting on bringing up Pierre Dujols in this context. Patrick Riviere has examined the "Chrysopee" of Dujols and did not find much in common with Fulcanelli and his style and claims.

    Regarding galena and Fulcanelli: if you read the descriptions that he makes of the mineral that he claims the secret solvent of alchemy is made from, such as in the quote I provided above in post #26, you will see that it does not quite fit with galena.
    Last edited by JDP; 08-21-2016 at 09:32 PM.

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