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  1. #1
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    72

    As with any number you can claim Apophenia (a tendency to perceive meaningful patterns within random data), however there is - in my opinion - something a bit more interesting with 72 than with most other numbers... and I am certain many of you here are already familiar with some of them.

    One of the most amazing feats of the ancient world is their knowledge of astronomy that modern historians, yet, have not fully understood how they could know so much... and it is beyond contradictions.

    The precession of equinoxes in particular is the most astonishing. To sit on a log for a year or two and figure out when the summer solstice occurs is one thing, but a cycle of approximately 26,000 years is another game altogether. As far as I understand it the Earth shifts 1 degree every 72 years. So even if a smart person looked at the stars for 72 years it would require that whomever came after also investigated the same thing and noticing this small shift... from there on I guess it is just statistics... still pretty impressive.

    The breath of our whole galaxy, this beating drum of 26 000 years, is a significant event from our perspective in the cosmos... and there is a bump towards a "new age" every 72 years.

    It is therefor not strange to find this number in the ancient world. We, in modern times, arrange everything around our own view of numbers; which is more rigid and square like 10, 360, 90, 12. This is because science is our religion, and it is always the religion of the day that influence society.

    Here are some examples of 72 (sometimes called The Master Number):

    Jewish Mysticism
    72 is the total number of names of God.

    According to the Zohar, the degrees of the Jacob's ladder were to the number of 72.

    Egyptian
    Osiris was enclosed in a coffin by 72 evil disciples and accomplices of Set.

    Thoth, in an Egyptian creation myth, wins a 72nd of each day of the year from the Moon in a game of draughts, as a favour to Nut, the Sky Goddess. He uses these portions to make the five intercalary days on which the remaining Gods and Goddesses are born.

    Ancient Khmer Empire
    72 major temples have been found at Angkor, seat of the ancient Khmer Empire.

    Islam
    72 is the number of sects or denominations that are doomed to Hell, as well as 72 virgins in heaven.

    Biblical
    72 disciples sent by Jesus.

    72 races descend from Noah.

    72 languages spoken at the Tower of Babel.

    Ancient China
    72 disciples of Confucius.

    Miscellaneous
    72 demons and other spirits in the goetia The Lesser Key of Solomon.

    The life duration of the ovule is 72 hours.

    72 is the average number of cardiac pulsations per minute.

    72 % of water of which the human body is composed.

    7+2 = 9

    In numerology 9 rules all planets and is also The Hermit.

    Etc etc... as with any number you can make long lists like these, but I have a point (I think).
    Scanning the Internet for information of 72 appearances in religious texts you will find that it is often connected either with something "good" or something "bad". I personally thing this is just a result of human perspective. From a cosmic perspective there is neither good nor bad. So I wouldn't place much weight on that aspect.

    If alchemy teaches anything it is about microcosm and macrocosm. The life cycle of the universe (at least from our limited perspective) basically comes down to 72 years (Earth perspective).


    Algorithm Perspective

    If we look at Nature as an algorithm it does make some sense that such an algorithm might have something to do with 72 (tilt of Earth, life duration of the ovule, percentage of water in the body etc.). Such numerical information is then adopted by the "religious" ancestors... because they lived in a world where Nature/Universe and God/Spirit where one and the same... so it is only natural for them to include this number in their own society more frequently than what we do today. Modern man doesn't care about the precession of equinoxes, only about Top Tens.

    Is that why they built 72 stupas [dome-shaped buildings], which comprise Borobudur, the world’s largest Buddhist temple.

    Perhaps 72 is an algorithm of the Universe that has been transcribed into the sacred texts... and if science is trying to discover the algorithm of the universe - and of life... artificial or not - they unknowingly use the very same algorithms...

    A common limit for characters per line in computing is 72.

    Last edited by Awani; 09-28-2016 at 09:07 PM.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    I think 72 is a product of culture and history more than anything.

    We have to remember the idea of a 360 degree circle first came out of the idealized number for a year, so even the measurement of 1 degree every 72 years encodes that. Had our circle instead contained 365 degrees (i.e. would represent a real world circle, versus the archetypal heavenly one), then 1 degree would be seen every 71 years. 1 degree is quite noticeable - it is about twice the width of the full moon. Discrepancies in angles related to position of rising stars on the cardinal points of the year could be seen easily as a stead drifting - especially so when fixed monuments were build that were designed as observatories. This idea of a movement within the sphere of the heavens was naturally part of the priest class curriculum. In things like the the change of the name of MIThRAS to MEIThRAS we can see that correction. Actually if we look at the greek gematria, and instead of 72x360 we look at different factors, such as 60x432, we start to see more evident explanations of this great cycle.

    The whole topic of archeoastronomy makes it pretty evident I think that ancient man's first idea of the divine and religion was from watching the night sky. I think this only really stopped being evident with the advent of post nicene christianity, so in essence we are left to rediscover these lost truths.

    Anyway, 72 thus being such a magical number of course gets encoded in all sorts of things.

    Many of the other numbers you post are questionable, but this is to be expected with the internet.

    Faced with fuzzy numbers that seem to be close enough, we squint to bring some focus to that fuzz, and lump things together.

    The egg's fertilization period is closer to 2 days.
    The average amount of water in a human is closer to 50%-60%
    Anywhere from 60bpm-100bpm falls into the average category for heart rate.
    The 72 characters per line comes out of a design constraint in early american made typewriters - of course the british made ones had a different number (70). This deals with readable font size, standard margin widths, and letter width in relation to ISO standard A4 paper. Later on this was brought up closer to 100 characters. Again, all sorts of human conventional reasons.


    I think more damage than good is done when we constrain an idea on the data, but we are a pattern seeking consciousness after all!

    Certainly there is a treasure trove of ideas encoded in the number 25920, especially in factors thereof when one deals with gematria. That number, I think, is not a product of human convention - rather a number that naturally exists as a relationship between the spin, orbit, and wobble of the planet.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    It is therefor not strange to find this number in the ancient world. We, in modern times, arrange everything around our own view of numbers; which is more rigid and square like 10, 360, 90, 12. This is because science is our religion, and it is always the religion of the day that influence society.
    Just for the sake of clarification (almost as a footnote):

    The division in 360 of the circle is Babylonian and it was related to the zodiac... and arrived to use because the Greeks inherited their system (mixing it with the Egyptian calendar -the classical Greek astrology, which is the one that most occidental alchemy texts use is a Greek hybrid of Babylonian and Egyptian influences -it's mostly Babylonian with a minor Egyptian twist).

    The 72 names Hebrew names of God are not exactly "the totality" of the names of God, but only the names of God in the Zodiac.

    This is called Shem HaMephorash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemhamphorasch
    and the names are corresponded to the 72 quinaries of the Zodiac* (360/5=72)

    *There's not much variation in the 72 names (sometimes there's a difference in their final letter, because they are 5 letters names and the first 3 letters come from the Torah, but the last 2 are added by the use of other systems, which sometimes have variations)

    **I know at least 4 ways of corresponding those names to the quinaries, all of them are "right" somehow, they simply use a different logic (1. beginning in Aries and going clockwise through the zodiac, 2. beginning in aries and going counter-clockwise, 3. beginning in leo and going clockwise. 4. beginning in leo and going anti-clockwise).

    The numbers you mentioned as being "scientific" are nowadays "scientific", but their origin is Babylonian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    This is called Shem HaMephorash
    There are also the 72 Goetia, which king solomon dealt with. Apparently the opposing polarity.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

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    My main point was really about reality being an algorithm (which is a different topic I guess, see link)... but any algorithm has a "mathematical code" of some sort.

    Precession of equinoxes + 72 years + the life duration of the ovule is 72 hours + a common limit for characters per line in computing is 72 etc. = signs of the algorithm perhaps?

    I don't claim facts here. Just an offering of an idea...

    ---------

    This statement "We, in modern times, arrange everything around our own view of numbers; which is more rigid and square like 10, 360, 90, 12." was quickly put together, and I was aware of the origins of these numbers... but I still hold my position that the "important numbers TODAY" have no relation to where they came from... they are square, even, logical 1 2 3 type of numbers that society is based around. At least in the metric world. I don't know why US and UK keep holding on to that illogical system of theirs. LOL.

    In ancient times - perhaps... no one knows, but looking at temples and sacred texts, it seems they were more "into" "real" numbers.

    That all ended with the Ten Commandments. Top Ten's ever since then.

    Last edited by Awani; 09-29-2016 at 03:11 AM.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    I'm in agreement zoas23. The 360 is ideal simply because it is 6x60, and the hexadecimal system makes for easily dividing. It's an artifact of culture, and not some number or ratio that is inherent in nature.

    The sumerians / babylonians seemingly sprung up with everything already in place, including the modern zodiac and 12 / 36 fold divisions. (i think the first historical text we have is a sumerian tablet dealing with a complaint about the quality of copper delivered!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    There are also the 72 Goetia, which king solomon dealt with. Apparently the opposing polarity.
    Yes, the "Solomonic Grimoires" are heavily based on Qabalah (I would even say, in most cases on Christian rather than Jewish interpretations of the Qabalah) and are a mix of medieval and Renaissance texts. The Ars Goetia is for sure based on the Shem HaMephorash, offering, as you've said opposites to the 72 names of God in the Zodiac. Other than that, they are for sure not written by Solomon (an obvious false attribution... and the Qabalah didn't even exist during the times of Solomon, but that's another discussion!). The Goetia is heavily influenced by Trithemius too. If we get too exquisite, I would say that they are not exactly opposites, but the "dark side" or "corruption" or "shady side" of the 72 names. Identical to the relation between the Sephiroth and the Qlippoth (i.e, the Sephirah Kether affirms the Unity of everything, it's the "Hen to Pan" of the Qabalah, the "All is One"... but it's a consciousness and just like any consciousness it has an internal conflict or doubt... which is its Qliphah, called Thaumiel... and Thaumiel affirms: "There is no unity, everything is duality, the conflict of the opposites doesn't lead to a dialectic synthesis and remains dual forever"... or, as to follow the logic that I think Dev is following, it's the *other side* of the number 1, it's doubt or conflict: the idea that the number 2 exists and that 2 can't become 1).

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    This statement "We, in modern times, arrange everything around our own view of numbers; which is more rigid and square like 10, 360, 90, 12." was quickly put together, and I was aware of the origins of these numbers... but I still hold my position that the "important numbers TODAY" have no relation to where they came from... they are square, even, logical 1 2 3 type of numbers that society is based around. At least in the metric world. I don't know why US and UK keep holding on to that illogical system of theirs. LOL.

    In ancient times - perhaps... no one knows, but looking at temples and sacred texts, it seems they were more "into" "real" numbers.

    That all ended with the Ten Commandments. Top Ten's ever since then.
    I don't endorse the idea that the Ten Commandments finished with this logic (I don't endorse the idea that the Ten Commandments are Holy either!!!).

    BUT I completely agree with the idea that our perception of what is a number has changed.

    In ancient mystical traditions it is clear that the numbers had both a quantitative function (that our modern science still keeps) and a qualitative function (that our modern science has lost).

    Quantitative = a man sees a group of cows and counts them: one, two, three, four cows! This *scientific* way of measuring things is not new and probably (or even certainly) precedes the written scripture of the numbers.

    Qualitative = the ontological conception that a number is an idea, or even a being, with specific qualities. I.e, the Pythagorean School was strongly based on this concept, Marcosian Gnosticism (a branch of the Valentinean Gnosticism) used this concept too... The Qabalah is based on this idea too.

    I would not use the idea of the "Algorithm of the Universe" myself (even if I love Aronofsky's "Pi" movie)... but it is impossible to deny that the ancient mystical traditions were looking for the sense of the universe by the means of the qualitative and quantitative notion of the numbers... whilst modern science does exactly the same, but only having in mind the quantitative aspect of them (and the HUGE difference between these two methods is that modern science does not establish a relationship between two seemingly unrelated things whose cycle is ruled by the same number... because such thing is perceived simply as a meaningless coincidence and not as an ontological concept or idea).

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    If our focus is solely on the numbers and subsequent 'algorithms' of the quantitative measurements/divisions/arithmetics/etc, we remain sequestered in Code-Land are limited to effects only, because we miss the (UN-Quantifiable) Qualities (Causes) that are hidden 'behind the code' and are its actual 'power source'.

    Without the 'quality', the numbers/codes/algorithms are 'dead'. It's the QUALITY that 'animates' them. This also adeptly marks the difference between Alchemy and chemystry, since the same principles apply. Chemistry can only deal with 'dead' code/algorithms, since it cannot really comprehend LIFE and the fact that LIFE is an UN-Created Universal Quality, 'locked' or 'buried' deeply inside the numbers/codes/algorithms of the VR Creation/Maya.
    Last edited by Andro; 09-29-2016 at 03:10 PM.

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    Good point, but why I find the algorithm perspective interesting is that if we for a moment forget our own theories about Nature as code-land and look at it as an organic living thing (which it is)... so basically an algorithm is not dead.

    Basically - perhaps - the Quality that "animates" is a divine/sacred algorithm... perhaps the uncreated energy (whatever) is an algorithm of sorts... a systematical force... chaos theory territory and all that.

    Also in our daily lives we can use Facebook. We can create an account. We can make options. We can make friends. All thanks to the code/program... but it is the algorithm of Facebook that create our experience of Facebook.

    So if we place the same line of thinking on reality then in order to form reality we have to understand the algorithm that is creating the experience.

    It can be interesting to discuss "what is" or "what isn't"... but I am always interested in "how it can be applied". Philosophy for the sake of philosophy on its own is not that interesting to me.

    In terms of the allegory of alchemy/chemistry... mumbo-jumbo and science... I think - predict - that with every step forward that science makes the closer it gets to mumbo jumbo. In other words we might use dead code to finally understand that the true fact of existence is something more profane... and ironically this divine magical reality that lies behind it all is code... but code that is alive.

    Personally I have a certain idea of the nature of everything, but it is always in motion. I think it is dangerous to stick to a strict concept, because water that doesn't have a current dies. Sometimes certain ideas are a dead end street, other times they might be incorrect... but they will open the door to the "correct" path.

    We often use computer terminology to express all these concepts, because they are very handy... but it is dangerous to limit ourselves to these words because the real reality of things are far more complex in their utter simplicity IMO.

    Sometimes it can seem paradoxical. But as a guest on the podcast yesterday informed me: what is the purpose of a paradox? The purpose is to serve the metaphor, and vice versa.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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