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Thread: The Secret Book of Artephius: Commentary & Analysis

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    But "Artephius" was not "Fulcanelli". I know that "Fulcanelli" did not think that gold (or silver) enters the composition of the Stone until later, when the Stone is already made and gold (or silver) is used as a "ferment". But this is not what "Artephius" thinks. This guy was operating on gold to make the Stone itself, dissolving gold in the secret solvent and preparing the "sulphur" from it:

    "That is, you must extract a living and incombustible water, and then congeal, or coagulate it with the perfect body of sol, i.e. fine gold, without alloy; which is done by dissolving it into a mature white substance of the consistency of cream, and made thoroughly white. But first this sol by putrefaction and resolution in this water, loseth all its light and brightness, and will grow dark and black; afterwards it will ascend above the water, and by little and little will swim upon it, in a substance of a white color. And this is the whitening of red laton to sublimate it philosophically, and to reduce it into its first matter; viz. into a white incombustible sulphur, and into a fixed argent vive."

    He is not describing here the "fermentation" of the finished Stone with gold but the making of the Stone itself with gold by submitting gold to the "philosophical solution/sublimation" in the secret solvent. And he was not the only alchemist who was convinced this was the right way of operating, while other alchemists preferred other metals for this part of the operations.
    But think of what you just said: "but the making of the Stone itself with gold by submitting gold to the "philosophical solution/sublimation" in the secret solvent".

    You just admitted that the solvent was not made by using gold. The gold was used AFTER the solvent was made.

    This is what I've been trying to say all along. I agree that gold (or silver) is used to make the transmutation stone, but NOT the Medicine or the "philosophical mercury"/sulphur. Two matters are used to make the First Medicine (a mineral and a metal), but THREE matters in total are used to make the Universal Medicine or Philosopher's Stone (the mineral - "Saturn", Saturn's offspring, etc., the metal (common), and Gold (or Silver).
    Last edited by Illen A. Cluf; 10-29-2016 at 09:19 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    But think of what you just said: "but the making of the Stone itself with gold by submitting gold to the "philosophical solution/sublimation" in the secret solvent".

    You just admitted that the solvent was not made by using gold. The gold was used AFTER the solvent was made.

    This is what I've been trying to say all along. I agree that gold (or silver) is used to make the transmutation stone, but NOT the Medicine or the "philosophical mercury"/sulphur. Two matters are used to make the First Medicine (a mineral and a metal), but THREE matters in total are used to make the Universal Medicine or Philosopher's Stone (the mineral - "Saturn", Saturn's offspring, etc., the metal (common), and Gold (or Silver).
    The secret solvent is not the Stone, it's part of it. Then you need what many writers call the "sulphur" (including Fulcanelli.) This and the secret solvent will form the Stone (after due union and "coction" in the right proportions.) Alchemists like Fulcanelli did not think that gold was appropriate for this purpose, and thus reject it. But other alchemists saw it as perfectly fine to use gold or silver for this purpose. "Artephius" (whoever he really was) evidently was one of them. The operations he describes to make the Stone itself are upon gold with the secret solvent. What he does not explain in a readily clear manner is the composition of the secret solvent (and for obvious reasons: the whole of alchemy depends on it), not the fact that he used gold in conjunction with it.

  3. #23
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    @Andro

    In Alchemy Proper, you never use sulfuric acid or any other acid anywhere. By acid the sages mean the ability of their water to volatize stuff. You already know this.

    Yes, the only knowledge of chemistry is needed only in the begining. Rest even a 5 yr old can do.

    @Illen and @JDP

    Artephius keeps on deliberately babbling about the long path and its finer details but he prefers to perform the wet path which takes roughly half the time of long path.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    @Andro

    In Alchemy Proper, you never use sulfuric acid or any other acid anywhere. By acid the sages mean the ability of their water to volatilize stuff. You already know this.
    You definitely can use it as an expression of the Acid Principle and a 'lower-level substitute' for 'our water', but it is not an absolute necessity. Other means can be used.

    Unless you work completely 'purist' and move through the density scale from there, there is a need to 'magnetize' your initial matter/body by 'opening' it so it can attract AND keep 'our water'. There are various ways to 'magnetize/open/spiritualize' matter. Some (but not all) of these ways may involve acids, such as in the long process with Marcasite (a sulfide), where sulfuric acid forms naturally.

    Besides, you have already mentioned that you haven't performed the work yet, so IF this is still the case and all your info comes from reading and from a set of fixed ideas you have formed in your mind, you are in no position to preach what 'alchemy proper' is or isn't, or what 'auxiliary' means are at our disposal to kick-start the process.

    Interesting to note what a combination of mild shit-storm as well as positive feedback my admitted memory-related mistake has caused here and in PM as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Yes, the only knowledge of chemistry is needed only in the beginning.
    What particular knowledge of chemistry would that be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Rest even a 5 yr old can do.
    If he/she doesn't get distracted, as 5 year olds often do ... Also, if you have a preference for a path using high temperatures, would you allow a 5 y/o child near it?
    _____________________

    Addendum: As 'proof of concept', in the past I have used more 'common' expressions of the 'acid principle' to 'open' various matters/bodies and 'elevate' them, such as changing 'states' (from 'closed' to 'open', from 'fixed' to 'volatile', from polar-soluble to non-polar soluble, etc...).

    To further exemplify, various 'waters' such as dew, rainwater, even a body's own 'waters' are examples of (perhaps relatively week but nevertheless efficient) expressions of the 'Acid Principle'.

    Another interesting example of using the 'Acid Principle' is found HERE.

    What is often referred to as 'Our Water' (Secret Fire) can be (somewhat and quite loosely) compared with a 'dew on steroids'.

    It is archetipally derived from 'Spiritus Mundi Acidus Corporeus' (Golden Chain). Aso in the Golden Chain, 'Our' Subject/Matter is similarly described as 'Spiritus Mundi Fixus Alcalicus Corporeus'.

    IF we commence our work with common (corporeal) matter(s), we inevitably work with CHEMICALS ('Code'). Using 'Code against Code' is similar to the Hermetic Way of using 'Law against Law'. A variation of 'hacking', if you will...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The secret solvent is not the Stone, it's part of it. Then you need what many writers call the "sulphur" (including Fulcanelli.) This and the secret solvent will form the Stone (after due union and "coction" in the right proportions.) Alchemists like Fulcanelli did not think that gold was appropriate for this purpose, and thus reject it. But other alchemists saw it as perfectly fine to use gold or silver for this purpose. "Artephius" (whoever he really was) evidently was one of them. The operations he describes to make the Stone itself are upon gold with the secret solvent. What he does not explain in a readily clear manner is the composition of the secret solvent (and for obvious reasons: the whole of alchemy depends on it), not the fact that he used gold in conjunction with it.
    It's possible that Artephius used gold as the "metal" from which to extract the sulphur. But I still think that he is using the word "gold" as Fulcanelli suggested.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    You definitely can use it as an expression of the Acid Principle and a 'lower-level substitute' for 'our water', but it is not an absolute necessity. Other means can be used.

    Unless you work completely 'purist' and move through the density scale from there, there is a need to 'magnetize' your initial matter/body by 'opening' it so it can attract AND keep 'our water'. There are various ways to 'magnetize/open/spiritualize' matter. Some (but not all) of these ways may involve acids, such as in the long process with Marcasite (a sulfide), where sulfuric acid forms naturally.

    Besides, you have already mentioned that you haven't performed the work yet, so IF this is still the case and all your info comes from reading and from a set of fixed ideas you have formed in your mind, you are in no position to preach what 'alchemy proper' is or isn't, or what 'auxiliary' means are at our disposal to kick-start the process.

    Interesting to note what a combination of mild shit-storm as well as positive feedback my admitted memory-related mistake has caused here and in PM as well



    What particular knowledge of chemistry would that be?



    If he/she doesn't get distracted, as 5 year olds often do ... Also, if you have a preference for a path using high temperatures, would you allow a 5 y/o child near it?
    _____________________

    Addendum: As 'proof of concept', in the past I have used more 'common' expressions of the 'acid principle' to 'open' various matters/bodies and 'elevate' them, such as changing 'states' (from 'closed' to 'open', from 'fixed' to 'volatile', from polar-soluble to non-polar soluble, etc...).

    To further exemplify, various 'waters' such as dew, rainwater, even a body's own 'waters' are examples of (perhaps relatively week but nevertheless efficient) expressions of the 'Acid Principle'.

    Another interesting example of using the 'Acid Principle' is found HERE.

    What is often referred to as 'Our Water' (Secret Fire) can be (somewhat and quite loosely) compared with a 'dew on steroids'.

    It is archetipally derived from 'Spiritus Mundi Acidus Corporeus' (Golden Chain). Aso in the Golden Chain, 'Our' Subject/Matter is similarly described as 'Spiritus Mundi Fixus Alcalicus Corporeus'.

    IF we commence our work with common (corporeal) matter(s), we inevitably work with CHEMICALS ('Code'). Using 'Code against Code' is similar to the Hermetic Way of using 'Law against Law'. A variation of 'hacking', if you will...
    It matters little whether I have performed experiments or not, the moment you add a substance foreign to it it is ruined. I am only talking about Alchemy Proper, not side stuff.

    Instead of calling it shit storm, you must thank God that you have a bunch of well meaning friends. I am assuming they PM'ed you regarding acid part.

    Regarding chemistry, the knowledge of certain salts and their behavior.

    Regarding 5yr old, talking about the easiness.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    It matters little whether I have performed experiments or not
    On the contrary, it makes all the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    the moment you add a substance foreign to it it is ruined.
    Foreign usually means 'of UN-like nature'. This is not the case here, principle-wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    I am only talking about Alchemy Proper, not side stuff.
    Are you claiming to be a practiced expert on what 'Alchemy proper' is?

    Side note: Even IF we use 'helpers' or 'catalysts', they are of 'similar' natures and they don't end up in the final 'product' anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Instead of calling it shit storm, you must thank God that you have a bunch of well meaning friends.
    I will ignore this last statement for now.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    On the contrary, it makes all the difference.

    Foreign usually means 'of UN-like nature'. This is not the case here, principle-wise.

    Are you claiming to be a practiced expert on what 'Alchemy proper' is?

    Side note: Even IF we use 'helpers' or 'catalysts', they are of 'similar' natures and they don't end up in the final 'product' anyway.

    I will ignore this last statement for now.
    Acid is a corrosive, bringer of death, lookup acid attack photos and you are using it to volatize stuff and open it up. Assuming the substance opens up, the corrosive is only going to destroy the tender mercury. How can you attract SM under such a situation?

    As for Alchemy Proper:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    I find it appropriate to quote Paracelsus in the middle of such an intense thread:

    To grasp the invisible elements, to attract them by their material correspondences, to control, purify and transform them by the living power of the spirit, this is true alchemy.

    Like Attracts Like

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Acid is a corrosive, bringer of death, look up acid attack photos and you are using it to volatilize stuff and open it up. Assuming the substance opens up, the corrosive is only going to destroy the tender mercury. How can you attract SM under such a situation?
    You're speaking theoretically without having the actual practice. In 'Hermes Old Nature Way', for example, the same things are said about the heat of common fire:

    We can see then, that common fire does not serve toward maturation, but is a destroyer of the seed; it is the death of all things, because it consumes all the power within the seed of all bodies, and those are thereby no longer fit to generate more of themselves.
    I am not going to spend more time explaining the correspondences and expressions of the Acid/Nitre Principle. Suffice to say that they don't call its highest expression 'Our Vinegar' on a mere whim. 'Lower' expressions of the same principle also include rainwater, dew, etc. There's an innate Acid Principle involved in Urine Works as well. Also consider the role of Gastric Acid. Sometimes, in Alchemy, an auxiliary Acid 'helper' is referred to as 'Fire against Nature'.

    My current research revolves around 'rendering' the Universal Central Salt, which is not physically readily manifest in nature. The Central Salt is the EARTHLY and FIXED Alchemical counterpart of the CELESTIAL and VOLATILE Universal Spirit ('Mercurius Sideribus').

    In my current work there are no acids involved, but quite different procedures, so I won't dwell on 'salt volatilization & opening' anymore, even though it can be done with the help of the Acid Principle, without 'destroying' anything - which is something I have already proven to myself in practice. Also, the resulting salt(s) were not physically present in the matter before, so in a sense they are 'newly corporified matter', making the term 'volatilized salts' a bit of a misnomer IMO... and by being the Earthly counterparts of the Celestial Spirit, they are also its 'Magnets', as per the Paracelsus quote.

    So, given that my current work doesn't involve 'opening' matters such as common salts/minerals/metals, I feel I have nothing to add to the 'Acid Principle' discussion at this point.

    Good luck to everyone.

  10. #30
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    Logistical Post

    All posts straying too much from the topic of 'The Secret Book of Artephius' but rather dealing more with wet/dry/long/short path notions have been moved to This Thread.

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