Patrons of the Sacred Art

OPEN TO REGISTER: Click HERE if you want to join Alchemy Forums!

View Poll Results: Why make the Stone?

Voters
10. You may not vote on this poll
  • To make physical gold.

    0 0%
  • To make spiritual gold = spiritual path.

    2 20.00%
  • To live longer and healthier.

    2 20.00%
  • To become immortal.

    2 20.00%
  • There is no such thing as a Stone.

    0 0%
  • To assist with stepping outside the omniversal foodchain, become immune to demiurgic insanity, shed all superfluities (layers of code & identification) and BE ONE with the UN-Created.

    4 40.00%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 107

Thread: Why make The Stone?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Simple: no one can. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of baloney. They know they would take the money without hesitation. Same with alchemy and the Stone.
    This is somehow private, but I'll bring it here, I think Dev would not mind.
    Some time ago I found myself in a hard situation and Dev himself offered to send me money for free. It was not 10 million dollars, but it was an amount that would have helped.
    I thanked him for his kindness and I rejected the offer, because I didn't want to take his money (even knowing that it was not a big burden for him).

    You can call Dev a fool for offering money for free and call me a fool too for rejecting the offer.
    BUT I know that what Dev says is what Dev does... you may not like his ways, but his words are not simply "hypothetical".
    Last edited by zoas23; 11-05-2016 at 12:32 AM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Bridger Mountains
    Posts
    1,929
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    but his words are not simply "hypothetical".
    Funny thing, hypotheticals. The one thing I took away from my university studies in philosophy is that any argument can be supported by a "hypothetical" if it's designed correctly (following the rules of logic).

    Throw a few discreet logical fallacies in the mix and you have yourself a politician

    I agree with you, Mr. Z

    --------------

    I want to play on the team that does it purely for the pursuit of wisdom through the knowledge and understanding gained through studying Self and Nature.

    And the team that has the best weed.

    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the moment...
    Posts
    8,149
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I want to play on the team that does it purely for the pursuit of wisdom through the knowledge and understanding gained through studying Self and Nature.
    You shall be the quarterback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Poor people are not poor because they want to be rich.
    Actually this is exactly the case. Financial poverty is not caused by the lack of money. I don't know if you know this but "rich" people have more debt than poor people. The difference between rich and poor is actually simply the fact that rich people play the game differently. Sure there are those born with a silver spoon in the mouth, but there are just as many people who are born with nothing and create wealth from that.

    As for real poverty (not this pseudo-White Mans world poverty) it's the lack of rights that is the cause of poverty, not the lack of wealth... and the fact that WE in the west are vampires. Slavery did not end, we just call it Import/Export.

    Financial Security

    This is the biggest scam so far. There simply is no such thing. Based on my own experiences in life money has a way to generate itself when you stop trying to get it... because money is just an effect of what people do. Some people can make 1000 dollars triple in three days. Other people commit suicide when they win 1 million dollars. Others can't even get their act together no matter how much they have.

    The reason why I don't think the pursuit of making gold is a good idea is because it will only create misery. The moment money is the end of any desire is the moment you start playing Russian roulette. And even if the person who makes the gold is a humble saint that persons friends and family certainly are not. I have seen people become devils over sums no larger than 5000 dollars.

    I am certainly not against anyone trying to make physical gold in alchemy. It's a free world as far as I am concerned. I guess in the end I'm just saying: be careful what you wish for

    ------------------------------------------------

    As for menial jobs or shitty jobs... that is about attitude. The shittiest and most menial and meaningless job there is must be a CEO of a bank. No wonder they need coke and whores. I would need those things too just to avoid blowing my brains out. LOL.

    Zoas23: I'm just happy it worked out...

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the moment...
    Posts
    8,149
    Blog Entries
    2
    theFool:

    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Being poor or relatively poor, has a lot to do with being overly honest, ethical and saying things which are true regardless of how it hurts. It's almost impossible to move up the ladder of success without being dishonest, using others, lying big time, cheating, being aggressive, etc., unless you happen to inherit a fortune.

    I could have been quite well off if I had "played the game" and sucked up to my bosses. Instead, they despised my brutal honesty about how things could be improved, etc., and as a result always passed me over whenever an advancement opportunity presented itself. They preferred leaving things as they were only to make their jobs more easy. I don't mind not being well off as at least I can live with myself.
    I agree... but what is even more amazing is all those poor people in the Western World that are also dishonest, lying, cheating, using aggression... in their attempts to get just a bit of cash... microcosm/macrocosm yet again. Humanity. Sigh.

    I guess it shows that the character of a person is not related to his wallet.

    Last edited by Awani; 11-05-2016 at 02:02 AM.
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the moment...
    Posts
    8,149
    Blog Entries
    2
    Although we got a bit derailed I guess so far the reason people try and make the Stone is:

    - wealth / gold
    - understand Nature
    - understand the Self
    - understand the ancients
    - health reasons

    Any other?

    I'm actually surprised no one has yet said "live forever".

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    1,203
    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    I agree... but what is even more amazing is all those poor people in the Western World that are also dishonest, lying, cheating, using aggression... in their attempts to get just a bit of cash... microcosm/macrocosm yet again. Humanity. Sigh.

    I guess it shows that the character of a person is not related to his wallet.

    Unfortunately, lying, cheating, aggression, dishonesty is now revered and praised by most Otherwise there would be no such thing as openly corrupt Presidential candidates, for example. Presidents used to be role models for appropriate behavior. Now they're role models for inappropriate behavior.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,968
    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post

    Financial Security

    This is the biggest scam so far. There simply is no such thing. Based on my own experiences in life money has a way to generate itself when you stop trying to get it... because money is just an effect of what people do. Some people can make 1000 dollars triple in three days. Other people commit suicide when they win 1 million dollars. Others can't even get their act together no matter how much they have.

    The reason why I don't think the pursuit of making gold is a good idea is because it will only create misery. The moment money is the end of any desire is the moment you start playing Russian roulette. And even if the person who makes the gold is a humble saint that persons friends and family certainly are not. I have seen people become devils over sums no larger than 5000 dollars.

    I am certainly not against anyone trying to make physical gold in alchemy. It's a free world as far as I am concerned. I guess in the end I'm just saying: be careful what you wish for
    This post shows how naive you are about such matters (just like your views on empirical reality.) Financial security a "scam"? Methinks you don't know what that means:

    https://www.quicken.com/what-financial-security

    Also, keep on wishing your money "generates" all by itself like a plant just because you stop worrying about it. It will take you to the poorhouse very fast.

    Of course you can make your money "generate" more money (and if you are successful at alchemy that is one possible way of doing it), but you need to know how, have the right connections, experience, etc. That's why people who truly make it big are much less than those who do not.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    5,361
    Blog Entries
    1
    Some people are good at creating and managing successful businesses, big, medium or small. Others are comfortable as employees with a steady paycheck, ranging from anywhere between janitor and CEO. Yet others have a gift for trading, investing, etc... Others are simply heirs/trust-fund kids...

    I personally only know two multi-millionaires. Both of them keep the majority of what they have in the form of physical gold and silver (bars or coins). They also have stored food and water, emergency supplies as well as generators, to last at least a year.

    I know people from almost all the above mentioned categories. None of them feel they are 'financially secure'.

    For me, in this reality, being 'financially secure' means to ALWAYS have something of value to trade for (or uninterrupted access to) ANY need that might arise at ANY given time, PLUS having access to a 'market' where such a need will be ALWAYS accessible and up for trade. It also means having the means to keep/prevent your value from being forcefully 'taken' from you (you know by whom). So much for 'financially secure', not taking into account stuff that does not exist on ANY market, such as reversing entropy, for example

    The much less 'realistic' alternative would be to not have any need whatsoever (no need for food and water... and why not, even air... especially on a submarine )

    So, 'financially secure' is (to me) more of a relative scale than a binary secure/insecure status.

    A fully accomplished/realized Adept/Master is (in my personal view) the closest thing to 'financially secure', and I am not talking about making gold. At least not only.

    Scaling this up, no UN-transcended entity in the Universe on all its planes can truly be 'financially secure'.

    In my view, the Universe operates very much like a business, and it's a bubble that periodically bursts/implodes/resets.

    But yes, as JDP pointed out, some (usually a minority) are (temporarily) more 'financially secure' than others. Relatively.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,968
    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    For some reason people see money as a means of obtaining what they want. They equate them with food, health and shelter. But in case you get the Stone, you can have those three (and more) without any money.

    So, why force a field worker to spend his days doing something he hates in order to create your food. Why force a builder to make your house. Creating and selling gold from the Stone, seems to be a twisted way to use it.

    Even if I'm not a fan of "spiritual alchemy" as dev means it, reading his words here I understand its great value.
    You should read what the alchemists themselves said about this subject, like the likely Byzantine alchemist "Alphidius" (this seems to be the Latinized name of the alchemist called "Asfidus" by the Arabs, who was probably a Byzantine), the Arab alchemist al-Iraqi, or Basil Valentine, they easily answer your questions/objections:

    "God-fearing Sages, adds Alphidius, have never carried their jealousy so far as to refuse to unveil this mystery to men of their own way of thinking. But they have carefully concealed it from the multitude, lest there be an end of all sowing, planting, reaping, and of agriculture and work generally. These are very good and humane reasons, then, why this Art should not be revealed to everybody." - "Alphidius", cited by Petrus Bonus in "The New Pearl of Great Price"

    "Now the world and its inhabitants are maintained only by the service of some of us to others. This is not because of exaltedness of rank or of distinguished ancestry, but because Divine Providence has made a portion of mankind dependent upon others. In this connection, there are two varieties of dependence, namely dependence for technical ability and dependence for subsistence. Dependence for technical ability is of two orders, that of the rich man and that of the poor man. For if a man relies upon himself in everything, many things throng upon him, since a man needs the builder to guard him from heat and cold, and also a silk-mercer to make clothing for him to protect him; [he needs also] a smith to shape for him implements for agriculture and carpentry, and other tools. Man has need also of many other things in order that his comfort and life may be complete. Arts are thus diversified among men for this reason, and some men are dependent upon others while some are independent. For some men are driven to the arts for the reason that they cannot supply their own [technical] needs, and other men are forced thereto in order to relieve their necessities. Indeed, if all men were equal in prosperity the employment of some by others would be a matter of difficulty, but when a man is in straits he is of necessity driven to accomplish the desires of the affluent in order to obtain from them the wherewithal to live. When philosophers realised this, they became intensely secretive and obscure concerning the preparation of the Elixir, and continually went to excessive lengths in metaphors." - Al-Iraqi, "Book of the Seven Climes".

    "This will seem unintelligible to many, and it certainly does make an extraordinary demand upon the mental faculties; but that must be so because the substance is within the reach of everyone, and there is no other way of keeping up the divinely ordained difference between rich and poor." - Basil Valentine's "12 Keys"


    These are in fact some of the strongest arguments that the alchemists could find to keep alchemy a "secret" from the majority of the population. Alchemy by its very nature has to be secretive, selective and "elitist", it cannot be a "public domain" knowledge because it would then do damage to society and also end up devaluing itself as well. Sure, alchemy would continue to work producing precious metals even if everyone knew it, that empirical fact would not change, but the two logical consequences would be that: 1- a lot of people will abandon other activities necessary for society to function and devote themselves to making precious metals, and 2- eventually devalue the worth of the very precious metals alchemy produces. It does not take a rocket scientist, then, to see why the alchemists have always been secretive about their "craft". It sure has little to do with some nebulous alleged "spiritual" revelations or reasons, as some people with mystical mindsets imagine and fancy, and much to do with the very real and tangible self-preservation and personal advantage. A modern (late 19th/early 20th century) alchemist everyone should read is the American guy who called himself "Adiramled". He will tell you such things in even plainer words than any alchemist from older times.
    Last edited by JDP; 11-05-2016 at 03:33 PM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the moment...
    Posts
    8,149
    Blog Entries
    2
    People who are not financially secure are so cute.



    ------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Some people are... Others are... Yet others have a...
    Yes and some are... hm... I wonder...

    Whore. Faggot. Sissy. Moron. Scum. Looser. Shithead. Failed abortion. Bitch. Cunt. Asshole.

    The list goes on and on. Which is the best word? Help me out...

    Sometimes it would be really fun to rape certain people just to see the look on their face. Ha ha ha.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Now I got to rub one out...

    Last edited by Awani; 11-05-2016 at 02:17 PM.
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts