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View Poll Results: Why make the Stone?

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  • To make physical gold.

    0 0%
  • To make spiritual gold = spiritual path.

    2 20.00%
  • To live longer and healthier.

    2 20.00%
  • To become immortal.

    2 20.00%
  • There is no such thing as a Stone.

    0 0%
  • To assist with stepping outside the omniversal foodchain, become immune to demiurgic insanity, shed all superfluities (layers of code & identification) and BE ONE with the UN-Created.

    4 40.00%
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Thread: Why make The Stone?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    People who are not financially secure are so cute.

    Yes and some are... hm... I wonder...

    Whore. Faggot. Sissy. Moron. Scum. Looser. Shithead. Failed abortion. Bitch. Cunt. Asshole.

    The list goes on and on. Which is the best word? Help me out...

    Sometimes it would be really fun to rape certain people just to see the look on their face. Ha ha ha.

    Now I got to rub one out...
    ...What?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    ...
    These are in fact some of the strongest arguments that the alchemists could find to keep alchemy a "secret" from the majority of the population. Alchemy by its very nature has to be secretive, selective and "elitist", it cannot be a "public domain" knowledge because it would then do damage to society and also end up devaluing itself as well. Sure, alchemy would continue to work producing precious metals even if everyone knew it, that empirical fact would not change, but the two logical consequences would be that: 1- a lot of people will abandon other activities necessary for society to function and devote themselves to making precious metals, and 2- eventually devalue the worth of the very precious metals alchemy produces. It does not take a rocket scientist, then, to see why the alchemists have always been secretive about their "craft".
    You have explained very well why the alchemists keep their craft a secret. It is primarily for dominating and exploiting the rest of humanity.

    There might be spiritual reasons also (for example, to not give "matches" to "children") but probably are not the primary reason. If every scientist was thinking like that, we would never have electricity or antibiotics for example.

  3. #33
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    I would say there is a difference between making gold and producing electricity or antibiotics...

    But even if the knowledge of 'making gold' would be available to everyone, the 'system' has ways of adjusting, so I don't think it wouldn't be an issue for too long...

    If the 'Stone' was ONLY about making gold, that is... Which it isn't...
    Last edited by Andro; 11-05-2016 at 06:19 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    You have explained very well why the alchemists keep their craft a secret. It is primarily for dominating and exploiting the rest of humanity.

    There might be spiritual reasons also (for example, to not give "matches" to "children") but probably are not the primary reason. If every scientist was thinking like that, we would never have electricity or antibiotics for example.
    They were not dominating or exploiting anyone, simply maintaining the status quo so that society as they knew it -and we still know it- could keep on functioning without a major disruption. Also keep in mind that they saw this status quo as being "Divinely" ordered (that's the "spiritual reason", but none of them of course had any proof whatsoever regarding this, it was just their assumption that "God" had ordered things to be thus; once again, one has to know how to differentiate between FACTS and BELIEFS.)

    Producing electricity and antibiotics is quite a different case than making artificial gold and silver (these metals have been of extreme importance to all the economies of the world since antiquity.) However, the issue of a medicine that can cure a whole bunch of diseases and extend human life would bring its own problem should it also be "released" to the public. Of course, I am talking about a problem that was unknown to people in past centuries, but to us is quite real thanks in fact to things like antibiotics: overpopulation.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    You have explained very well why the alchemists keep their craft a secret. It is primarily for dominating and exploiting the rest of humanity.

    There might be spiritual reasons also (for example, to not give "matches" to "children") but probably are not the primary reason. If every scientist was thinking like that, we would never have electricity or antibiotics for example.
    Your comparison isnt a good one I think. Alchemists kept their knowledge secrte to earn money from it. Scientists made their knowledge public, also to earn money from it. For example, if Edison has kept his light bulb a secret, how could he have earned all those milions he earned from the sales of this product? He would only have a futuristic product to illuminate his own home, and he had to plow the earth or made some other job to make a living. I dont think that he would like that idea, when he had invested so much money for the research for the light bulb. If Tesla kept his 3-phase motor a secret, and dont make a team with Westinghouse to introduce it to the world, how could he find the money to financial support his future research and experiment? Both alchemists and scientists has tried to earn their livings from their knowledge. Alchemists by hiding it and scientists by introducing it to the public.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellin Hermetist View Post
    For example, if Edison has kept his light bulb a secret, how could he have earned all those milions he earned from the sales of this product?
    They don't keep their product secret, but they strive to keep the method of making it secret. In the same way the "goldmaker alchemists" are selling gold but they keep secret the method of producing it. By the moment this method escapes competitors will arise. This will drop the value of gold (or the price of the light bulb in the case of Edison) and so, eventually, they will have to plow the fields like everyone else does (or assimilate/bribe/kill the competitors early).

    Tesla is a great example of a humanitarian scientist. He was not a businessman like Westinghouse was. The myth around him says that he was planning to give wireless electric power to the whole globe. Westinghouse sabotaged this plan because the wireless power could not be sold for money; he would have no control over the consumer. So, instead of that, we have wired power and electricity meters everywhere. The plans for the wireless global system have been ignored, hidden and burned. Even Tesla himself was almost erased from the history of electromagnetism despite his great contributions. In the end he died in poverty and this is the best proof that he came here to help humanity evolve and not to exploit our ignorance.

    In the case of antibiotics, imagine for example Fleming keeping secret the manufacture method of penicillin and selling a "miracle drug" that cures pneumonia. He would get much richer.

    Here, a more modern case:
    http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/22/inve...0-cancer-drug/
    This guy is said to have bought the rights of a drug that is used for AIDS patients and after securing the monopoly, rose its price by 5000%. This is the way to get rich and this is the mind of a successfull businessman. If he was not so greedy, we wouldn't have noticed it and he would have made his fortune like every other successful businessman does.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    They were not dominating or exploiting anyone, simply maintaining the status quo so that society as they knew it -and we still know it- could keep on functioning without a major disruption.
    The status quo .. monarchy, rulership, kings. Some of those alchemists lived in the court of kings and they were making gold for them. I doubt if any empire would exist without the monopoly of the knowledge of goldmaking. My opinion might be biased, but the status quo they were trying to maintain was oppressive, dominating and profited by keeping the populace in ignorance.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    They don't keep their product secret, but they strive to keep the method of making it secret. In the same way the "goldmaker alchemists" are selling gold but they keep secret the method of producing it. By the moment this method escapes competitors will arise. This will drop the value of gold (or the price of the light bulb in the case of Edison) and so, eventually, they will have to plow the fields like everyone else does (or assimilate/bribe/kill the competitors early).
    They keep their method secret for some time, but also they protect it with patents. So, everyone else who want to copy their product later, have to pay good money to them. And the contracts with big companies and the State when you are the only one who owns a product so revolutionary as the light bulb or the 3-phase motor, will give you so much money that you will never have to work for the rest of your life. Thats the reason we never saw Tesla, nor Edison, nor Howard Hughes, nor any other technical scientist of their caliber, to plow the earth to earn his living in any part of their lives. A succesfull alchemist, if one has ever lived in the earth, also kept his method secret and not his product, as many of them openly said that they sold their alchemical produced gold to make a living.

    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Tesla is a great example of a humanitarian scientist. He was not a businessman like Westinghouse was. The myth around him says that he was planning to give wireless electric power to the whole globe. Westinghouse sabotaged this plan because the wireless power could not be sold for money; he would have no control over the consumer. So, instead of that, we have wired power and electricity meters everywhere. The plans for the wireless global system have been ignored, hidden and burned. Even Tesla himself was almost erased from the history of electromagnetism despite his great contributions. In the end he died in poverty and this is the best proof that he came here to help humanity evolve and not to exploit our ignorance.
    Most of the above is wrong. Even if Tesla's wirelles plant was feasible, we should still need to burn coal or some other type of matter to produce the electricity at the generator. Νοw, if we consider that the construction of the central plant should be very expensive and complicated, we can easily see that the existence of a central company, which shall construct the central tower, produce the electricity there and distribute it to the consumers, should be much more essential than today, when everyone can buy a small diesel generator, put it in his garage and power his home from it, if he doesnt want to be connected in the network of a big company. Also, the plans of the wireless system is out there for eveyone to study them, and even trying to reconstruct them, in case he has some millions in his bank account. Tesla died at one of the penthouses of Astoria hotel, one of the best ones of New York city, where he spent the last years of his life. He didnt die poor but not so very rich as he could have been if he kept the money he earned at his earlier years and didnt spend them to new experiments till the end of his life. But this situation couldnt have changed cause if his character I think. If the State paid him three times more money as a pension, he should have also spent them for his experimetns and finally die with the same amount of money in his pocket.

  9. #39
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    The most important changes that should happen if an alchemist revelad his secret method of artificial precious metals production to the people I think should be the following:

    1) Gold and silver should lost their value and should be sold to the price of lead and iron
    2) Rich people and companies, who have invested big sums of money to gold and silver should lose the biggest part of their money
    3) Big companies (mainly technological ones) who buy big quantities of gold for their circuits, etc., should find the production cost lowered to a considerable degree
    4) Jewelers should have to find a new job (if the secret also includes transormation of brute stones to precious ones, as some alchemists affirm).
    5) Maybe the balances between countries who have stocked big quantitites of gold should change
    6) The alchemist should have to say goodbye to his financial security, and begin to work in a regular job, earning shit money in comparison with what he can earned if he kept his secret well guarded.
    7) All the other ppl should keep working in their jobs without any considerable change in their lives.

    From the above conquesences, I believe the only one that makes the alchemist to keep his secret well guarded is the sixth one. In earlier years, some of the alchemists may also was bind by an oath (clerks, monks, cathedral architects, etc.) to not reveal anything of what they leant during their stay in a lodge or brotherhood.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Tesla is a great example of a humanitarian scientist. He was not a businessman like Westinghouse was. The myth around him says that he was planning to give wireless electric power to the whole globe. Westinghouse sabotaged this plan because the wireless power could not be sold for money; he would have no control over the consumer. So, instead of that, we have wired power and electricity meters everywhere. The plans for the wireless global system have been ignored, hidden and burned. Even Tesla himself was almost erased from the history of electromagnetism despite his great contributions. In the end he died in poverty and this is the best proof that he came here to help humanity evolve and not to exploit our ignorance.
    Yes, and look at what happened to him in the end: he lost a lot of money because of his lack of foresight in securing better deals from those taking advantage of his patents, which would have made him a very rich man. Money which would have come in very handy when he was trying to develop the idea of "wireless" electricity. In the long run he had to abandon the project because of lack of funds.

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