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Thread: Minus Opus - Tier 2

  1. #11
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    Mr. Black.

    I'm confused again.

    This 'hand of the philosophers', while he does seem to make it very clear that it is vital for one to understand, Hollandus doesn't seem to use any of the salts in his Vegetable work!?

    I'm reading, and re-reading. I have a clear picture in my head about what I want to achieve, but I do not intend to use any of the salts from the hand.

    Does that mean that I'm oblivious to what he is talking about? Or is the hand used only for the Magnus?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  2. #12
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    And again, he raves on about a whole section about urine, but I know that he is not talking about urine, alas, I do not know the subject that he is talking about..
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  3. #13
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    @ Z oK

    I believe this is the appropriate place to discuss our hollandus work, considering that there is already a different kind of spagyrical stone as we know, and that ours is better

    I noticed in the non-solvent thread, that you mentioned the "stinking red oil" this makes me consider that perhaps you are using pyro-distillation on your plant matter.

    And I will ask.... Why?

    I am about to order my new set up today if I have the balls to spend that much money, just so that I can perform this entire work WITHOUT any heat over 37.5 degrees, except for the final calcination of all feces.

    I worry, that a pyro distillation does not allow all of our elements to return back into a unified whole, hollandus' reasoning is that the 'three spirits' vacate and that they are the key to recombination.

    Have you, Z oK, created a complete stone using these methods? Would love to chat with someone who is studying Hollandus.

    I'm ordering a big 5 litre domed reort, to assist sweating out all of the mercury without damaging the spirits. Also, to assist in gently coagulating my stone.

    I feel (IMO) that the pyro distillation is the false turn down this path. That, if we truly are to preserve the delicate Spiritus Anima, then we must be exceedingly gentle.

    My method, when it brings, will look something like this:

    Take assorted parts of grapevine, do not crush or maim the plant, only split any grapes you use to release their waters during your distillation. Place in 2 litre boiling flask. I'm using a very expensive flanged setup so that I could have very large joints and support the weight of the large retort. Reason being, the large your joint sizes the easier the sweating will progress.

    I will set this at either 37.5 or 40 degrees, not sure yet, will have to see how we progress at 37.5 first. Leave this for as log as it takes, a day, maybe three, until ALL of your humidity has left the boiling flask and been condensed.

    Now we have our philosophical plant mercury. It is philosophical, because it is taken naturally from the plant without violence, we have lost nothing at all. All things are within our hermetic vessel.

    Now, with a well dried plant matter, we crush it up, blend it, whatever you feel is best to get it down to a powder.

    Using our plant mercury, we incubate the two for some days. We then filter and allow this to digest until we see all feces drop out and then we filter again an store ready fr recombination later.

    We have to repeatedly use fresh mercury to slowly draw out the fire element. It's red colour.

    When we have performed these extractions to the best of our ability we then calcine our earth. Extract our salts, and recombine all our extractions with their salt, and then, once again, we very gentle coagulate the entire lot into a hard ruby red mass that melts like wax.

    I hope.

    That's the plan anyway.

    Feel free to share your method, or not, either way, I find this stuff exciting.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I feel (IMO) that the pyro distillation is the false turn down this path. That, if we truly are to preserve the delicate Spiritus Anima, then we must be exceedingly gentle.
    YES!!!



    "The fire must be light, mild, and moist, like that of a hen brooding over her eggs, and it must be sustained in such a manner that it will cook without burning the aerial fruits."
    "It should not be a coal or a wood fire, but a clear and pellucid heat, like that of the Sun itself—a gentle and even warmth. Growing fruit must not be exposed to too much heat, or else it is withered, and shrivelled up, and is never brought to perfection."
    "The very root of this knowledge is to act with care and perception at the time of composition, avoiding all haste and error, and watching patiently day and night for fixation. It unites and joins all the various substances and properties into one body, it being only necessary to apply to them a gentle heat the long continues at the same degree, neither increasing nor decreasing."
    "The fire of the first Degree, that is of Solution, and Putrefaction, ought to be so weak, that Nothing Ascend of the nature to be Sublimed, and so a gentle fire gives Mercury Ingresse into the body, when with a strong one all is destroyed."
    "Dear Son, be careful in the work of Putrefaction or Destruction, which is to be performed in a gentle heat."
    "This must the Artist know if he will find The narrow way that God to Nature gave Is boil, boil, boil if fruit thou seek to have And this by seething doth dissolve congeal. Learn well this lesson if thou wilt prevail And Patience have with thy continuance Lest too sharp fire cause much grievance Yet as the Infant food first is weak But stronger as he grows and learns to speak. So at the first our work has easy fire, And is increased as ripeness doth require."

    All the Sages are in agreement on this point and so many people miss it!

  5. #15
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    Well then take those musings to the lab and see what you get for the effort. Until then it is just wind and words.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Well then take those musings to the lab and see what you get for the effort. Until then it is just wind and words.
    How do you suggest operating the heat when preparing things Alchemically, z0 K?


    Do you ever advocate using heat over 120F? If so, when?


    In your opinion, what temperatures work best for what stages?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    How do you suggest operating the heat when preparing things Alchemically, z0 K?


    Do you ever advocate using heat over 120F? If so, when?


    In your opinion, what temperatures work best for what stages?
    The comments you quoted regarding the carefully controlled milder heats (usually employed by means of water/sand/ash baths) is for a stage in the preparation of the Stone/Elixir where the "earth" or "sulphur" is being slowly "cooked" with the secret solvent or "water/mercury" until both radically unite and coagulate into the Stone/Elixir, and thus why milder temperatures are employed. But that does not tell you anything regarding the previous preparatory stages, where stronger temperatures are also used.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    How do you suggest operating the heat when preparing things Alchemically, z0 K?


    Do you ever advocate using heat over 120F? If so, when?


    In your opinion, what temperatures work best for what stages?
    You posted several quotes along with agreeing with EM’s opinion that pyro distillation is a false turn on the path to making a plant stone following Hollandus. I suggest both of you read Hollandus’ vegetable operas to find out how may Quintessence processes he discusses in detail. Then decide which one you think you might like to attempt. Then make an outline of the steps you think are involved. Decide what equipment you will need (ask questions if nessary) and get it together.

    I use heat from around 120F up to 1400F depending upon what I’m after. Part of your plan for your Hollandus lab work should be to identify the stages Hollandus teaches in the vegetable work and incorporate them into your outline for the procedures.

    You said, “All the sages are in agreement on this point and so many people miss it!” as a remark at the end of the several quotes you posted. Those quotes are not sourced to authors. So I do not know what other procedures they employed. If the assumption is that one never uses temps above a BM in making a plant stone then the result will be very disappointing. See for yourself.

    Those quotes all seem to refer to the processes of joining the previously extracted and purified elements obtained from herbs.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    You posted several quotes along with agreeing with EM’s opinion that pyro distillation is a false turn on the path to making a plant stone following Hollandus. I suggest both of you read Hollandus’ vegetable operas to find out how may Quintessence processes he discusses in detail. Then decide which one you think you might like to attempt. Then make an outline of the steps you think are involved. Decide what equipment you will need (ask questions if nessary) and get it together.

    I use heat from around 120F up to 1400F depending upon what I’m after. Part of your plan for your Hollandus lab work should be to identify the stages Hollandus teaches in the vegetable work and incorporate them into your outline for the procedures.

    You said, “All the sages are in agreement on this point and so many people miss it!” as a remark at the end of the several quotes you posted. Those quotes are not sourced to authors. So I do not know what other procedures they employed. If the assumption is that one never uses temps above a BM in making a plant stone then the result will be very disappointing. See for yourself.

    Those quotes all seem to refer to the processes of joining the previously extracted and purified elements obtained from herbs.
    All the passages he quoted can be easily sourced. In order of appearance, they are from the following texts: "The words of Father Aristeus to his son", the "Philosophical Summary" attributed to Nicholas Flamel, the alchemical dialogue between the hermit Morienus and prince Khalid, "Saturninus" as quoted in the collection of alchemical quotes called "Zoroaster's Cave", Alanus as quoted in the treatise "Hydropyrographum Hermeticum", and a text by Edward Nowell.

    All of these quotes refer to the "coction" of the Stone/Elixir, where milder temperatures are used. That, however, doesn't say anything regarding the previous stages, where stronger temperatures are also used during the preparations of the secret solvent/water/mercury and the earth/sulphur, which many authors suppress, not even saying a single word about that and just go ahead and misleadingly describe the coction of the Stone directly as if this was the entire work; the authors who usually employ this nefarious and dishonest tactic are usually also the ones who love misleading others into seeking "one matter only" (and usually also "one vessel only" and "one furnace only") which supposedly will allow them to make the Stone/Elixir. This type of writers had no regard or respect for the time and money of others and did not hesitate one second about sending people into wild goose chases by manipulating and mutilating information like this. Truly despicable. If there really is such a thing as a "Divine Justice", these types of alchemists should be burning in Hell (if such a place also really exists) for all the loses and suffering they caused to countless people with such misleading tactics.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    You posted several quotes along with agreeing with EM’s opinion that pyro distillation is a false turn on the path to making a plant stone following Hollandus.

    I suggest both of you read Hollandus’ vegetable operas to find out how many Quintessence processes he discusses in detail. Then decide which one you think you might like to attempt. Part of your plan for your Hollandus lab work should be to identify the stages Hollandus teaches in the vegetable work and incorporate them into your outline for the procedures.

    I use heat from around 120F up to 1400F depending upon what I’m after.

    If the assumption is that one never uses temps above a BM in making a plant stone then the result will be very disappointing. See for yourself.
    Thanks for the feedback! After watching your videos and reading what you post, your temperature range was something always in the back of my mind.

    Hollandus is an author I am very familiar with. We disagree in the way we read the Texts so I am not sure if we could ever come to an agreement regarding what Hollandus meant with his words (for example, I do not believe he was speaking literally the majority of the time). Also, spagyrics or any other "plant stone" are none of my concern right now. It is the Philosopher's Stone I seek.

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