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Thread: Minus Opus - Tier 2

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    All the passages he quoted can be easily sourced. In order of appearance, they are from the following texts: "The words of Father Aristeus to his son", the "Philosophical Summary" attributed to Nicholas Flamel, the alchemical dialogue between the hermit Morienus and prince Khalid, "Saturninus" as quoted in the collection of alchemical quotes called "Zoroaster's Cave", Alanus as quoted in the treatise "Hydropyrographum Hermeticum", and a text by Edward Nowell.

    All of these quotes refer to the "coction" of the Stone/Elixir, where milder temperatures are used. That, however, doesn't say anything regarding the previous stages, where stronger temperatures are also used during the preparations of the secret solvent/water/mercury and the earth/sulphur, which many authors suppress, not even saying a single word about that and just go ahead and misleadingly describe the coction of the Stone directly as if this was the entire work; the authors who usually employ this nefarious and dishonest tactic are usually also the ones who love misleading others into seeking "one matter only" (and usually also "one vessel only" and "one furnace only") which supposedly will allow them to make the Stone/Elixir. This type of writers had no regard or respect for the time and money of others and did not hesitate one second about sending people into wild goose chases by manipulating and mutilating information like this. Truly despicable. If there really is such a thing as a "Divine Justice", these types of alchemists should be burning in Hell (if such a place also really exists) for all the loses and suffering they caused to countless people with such misleading tactics.
    Thanks for the sources of the quotes.

    I’m done arguing with you about the one matter one vessel one furnace paradigm. The one matter is “life.” The one vessel is whatever contains it. The one furnace is whatever heat is needed to maintain it. Ripley was a mystic monk as well as an adviser to the King. Can you make any sense of his scroll without analogical symbolism?

    Those old authors loved to hide information by screwing with your mind. They didn’t have TV or the internet to entertain themselves. They did have another virtual grid to utilize better than the internet: their own mind fields which they lit fabulously with philosophical nosturms. For me this is no speculation.

    The protocols to make a plant stone require one to make philosophical mercury/water and find a volatile spirit then join them with pure fixed earth/salt of the plant. This process I’m quite familiar with. The produce is mind opening.

    Then numerous possibilities arise when one wishes to take that life in the plant mercury into the metallic realm. This is where Weidenfeld’s compendium could be of help. On the other hand is the possibility that one has to find the metallic “life” principle and draw it out in a similar manner as with plants and animals. This is the long winding road.

    Then again perhaps these manipulations of organic source material are presenting isotopes of certain elements containing extra neutrons with opportunities to rid themselves of the burdensome neutrons. The loose neutrons get involved in a tug of war with other elements complexing in redox and they are undone into protons and electrons that get involved in new structures for our delight.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Thanks for the sources of the quotes.

    I’m done arguing with you about the one matter one vessel one furnace paradigm. The one matter is “life.” The one vessel is whatever contains it. The one furnace is whatever heat is needed to maintain it. Ripley was a mystic monk as well as an adviser to the King. Can you make any sense of his scroll without analogical symbolism?

    Those old authors loved to hide information by screwing with your mind. They didn’t have TV or the internet to entertain themselves. They did have another virtual grid to utilize better than the internet: their own mind fields which they lit fabulously with philosophical nosturms. For me this is no speculation.

    The protocols to make a plant stone require one to make philosophical mercury/water and find a volatile spirit then join them with pure fixed earth/salt of the plant. This process I’m quite familiar with. The produce is mind opening.

    Then numerous possibilities arise when one wishes to take that life in the plant mercury into the metallic realm. This is where Weidenfeld’s compendium could be of help. On the other hand is the possibility that one has to find the metallic “life” principle and draw it out in a similar manner as with plants and animals. This is the long winding road.

    Then again perhaps these manipulations of organic source material are presenting isotopes of certain elements containing extra neutrons with opportunities to rid themselves of the burdensome neutrons. The loose neutrons get involved in a tug of war with other elements complexing in redox and they are undone into protons and electrons that get involved in new structures for our delight.
    If that is your understanding of what the "one matter, one vessel, one furnace" counsel actually means, then you are pretty much admitting that many alchemists were indeed being purposefully deceptive. Your explanation is certainly not the way they wanted others to understand such strange "advice". They knew that most people reading them were going to take these statements at face value, as they are written, and literally look for one substance, put it inside one flask, and place it on one furnace and then proceed to heat it to see what happened. Of course this type of malicious alchemists had the last laugh at the expense of their victims, because by doing that no one will ever succeed in making the Stone/Elixir.

    Since you mention Ripley, that "mystic monk" also wrote very interesting things, like this semi-allegorized description of some of the reactions employed in making the Stone (page 374):

    https://archive.org/stream/theatrumc...rch/the+vision

    I wonder how many people who read such descriptions in alchemical texts have actually seen them or anything similar to them. I suspect that only very few have. He is in fact describing some things quite well here, like the "swelling" of the "toad", how it blackens, the "poisoned sweat" and "humor" that comes out of it, etc. I can tell you that I have seen very similar things with my own two eyes, brought about by the work of my own two hands, so to me there is nothing remotely "impossible" or "deceptive" in these descriptions (notice that Ripley is still hiding the real names of the substances employed, so he has no qualms about describing the reactions quite clearly; he knew that only a minority of his readers, the most empirically experienced among them, would take advantage of such descriptions.) These empirical descriptions (sometimes embellished by allegorical elements, like this fairy tale about the "toad" in Ripley's "Vision") are in fact the most valuable things in alchemical texts. They will serve as a true guide for the experienced seeker to figure out what substances and reactions will put him on the right track. On the other hand, theoretical discourses about the four "elements", the two or three "principles", how metals/minerals are supposedly generated inside the bowels of the Earth, "one matter only", "one vessel only", "one furnace only", "Divine Permission/Assitance/Gifts", "Spiritus Mundi", "Follow Nature" and the like fanciful speculative or even outright deliberately false things will in fact only succeed in leading you astray. You will never get anywhere with such conjectures, assumptions or misleading statements for which the alchemists who proposed them had no shred of proof whatsoever. Those are the least valuable and least interesting things in their texts, yet incredibly enough it seems to be what attracts the majority of people to them. Go figure!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Then numerous possibilities arise when one wishes to take that life in the plant mercury into the metallic realm. This is where Weidenfeld’s compendium could be of help. On the other hand is the possibility that one has to find the metallic “life” principle and draw it out in a similar manner as with plants and animals. This is the long winding road.
    I did a little searching around and couldn't find 'Weidenfeld's compendium' mentioned anywhere else. Do you happen to have a full title?
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I did a little searching around and couldn't find 'Weidenfeld's compendium' mentioned anywhere else. Do you happen to have a full title?
    Perhaps he is referring to THIS.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Perhaps he is referring to THIS.
    Yes excuse me, Wiedenfeld's Secrets of the Adepts is a compendium of menstrum recipes featuring works by Lull and Ripley, Hollandus and others.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    If that is your understanding of what the "one matter, one vessel, one furnace" counsel actually means, then you are pretty much admitting that many alchemists were indeed being purposefully deceptive. Your explanation is certainly not the way they wanted others to understand such strange "advice". They knew that most people reading them were going to take these statements at face value, as they are written, and literally look for one substance, put it inside one flask, and place it on one furnace and then proceed to heat it to see what happened. Of course this type of malicious alchemists had the last laugh at the expense of their victims, because by doing that no one will ever succeed in making the Stone/Elixir.

    Since you mention Ripley, that "mystic monk" also wrote very interesting things, like this semi-allegorized description of some of the reactions employed in making the Stone (page 374):

    https://archive.org/stream/theatrumc...rch/the+vision
    I keep trying to expose elements of alchemy that you do not entertain. My explanation is influenced by Ripley’s works. Ripley and other adepts often said they do not write for the sophists or the common and vulgar but for their brothers in the Art. They often warn not to take their sayings superficially or literally.

    There is the story of how the king had one of Ripley’s colleagues arrested and imprisoned and tortured to force him to give up his stone. He was able to toss the powder into the privy shitter before they caught him. Ripley found out and got him released. The king had become decadent and lost the throne after that and was forced into exile. Ripley went with him to France. The king regained his manners in exile and Ripley raised (financed) an army for his return. Upon the king’s triumphant return Ripley commissioned the scrolls to be made symbolizing the alchemical process of the Stone. Copies were made after Ripley had departed. (Reference: Arthurian Myths and Alchemy: the Kingship of Edward IV, by Jonathan Hughes)

    It appears that in England the clergy had an esoteric alchemical element going back to St Dunstan concerning the Stone/Elixir. After Ripley Dee was able to gain access to many old abbeys where he found alchemical documents which he had copied and added to his library. One of those old manuscripts was The Book of St. Dunstan. Ripley had a copy before Dee. Ripley’s was titled Key to the Golden Gate.

    I wonder how many people who read such descriptions in alchemical texts have actually seen them or anything similar to them. I suspect that only very few have. He is in fact describing some things quite well here, like the "swelling" of the "toad", how it blackens, the "poisoned sweat" and "humor" that comes out of it, etc. I can tell you that I have seen very similar things with my own two eyes, brought about by the work of my own two hands, so to me there is nothing remotely "impossible" or "deceptive" in these descriptions (notice that Ripley is still hiding the real names of the substances employed, so he has no qualms about describing the reactions quite clearly; he knew that only a minority of his readers, the most empirically experienced among them, would take advantage of such descriptions.) These empirical descriptions (sometimes embellished by allegorical elements, like this fairy tale about the "toad" in Ripley's "Vision") are in fact the most valuable things in alchemical texts. They will serve as a true guide for the experienced seeker to figure out what substances and reactions will put him on the right track.
    Yes Ripley’s ruddy toad. I have compounded it myself, swelling as it is exposed to the air and sweating red blood pH 14. The vapors will burn your eyes. I do believe the Toad is the gateway to the Grand Elixir. I took the Toad onward to the plant stone because I compounded it with purified plant calx not heavy metal calx.



    On the other hand, theoretical discourses about the four "elements", the two or three "principles", how metals/minerals are supposedly generated inside the bowels of the Earth, "one matter only", "one vessel only", "one furnace only", "Divine Permission/Assitance/Gifts", "Spiritus Mundi", "Follow Nature" and the like fanciful speculative or even outright deliberately false things will in fact only succeed in leading you astray. You will never get anywhere with such conjectures, assumptions or misleading statements for which the alchemists who proposed them had no shred of proof whatsoever. Those are the least valuable and least interesting things in their texts, yet incredibly enough it seems to be what attracts the majority of people to them. Go figure!
    http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/200...ey-scroll.html

    If you study the scroll drawings you see that the toad is in the dragons flaming mouth and blood is squirting out of the toad. Above that you see a column in the center of the mercurial bath. The elements in the mercury bath are depicted in the four vases at the corners and the three characters in the bath. One character is Anima and is radiating fire from a ring of dark cloud material; the other is Spiritus and has wings indicating its volatility. The central character is the Corpus holding the column center. Those elements represent substances in the bath.

    That column is supporting a second bath above it. There a grape vine is growing around the column that has become a tree. Mercury and sulfur (sun and moon) are in the bath eating grapes off the vine indicating that is their source of life. Spiritus and Anima have been transformed and are now on the tree on the trunk between the grapes and the where the tree branches. So mercury and sulfur get their life from the Spirit and Soul contained in the starting material. As you can see Spiritus has lost her wings (the feathers are floating all around the scene) and grown a green tail that is entwined with the tree branches and green growing leaves. She has become fixed into the growing tree representing the Stone. Spiritus in the Ripley scroll is a representation of Spiritus Mundi that is Azoth in the dragon fire which then condenses into armoniac. Seven monks are working turning the wheel seven times, seven distillations to remove the feces.

    All of the alchemical operations are depicted in the scroll. I have seen all of the signs depicted in the scroll in my lab work operating on various forms of biomass including mineralized biomass. Nowhere in the scroll is any outside matter added to the vertical operations in the stages of the column. The work is being performed upon one thing depicted as a sphere with green dragon wings. The matter has wings so it must fly or rise. Above it is the green dragon holding three crescent shaped things, red, white and black in its mouth that are also seen in the sphere. Blood is pouring out of the dragon’s belly into the sphere where we find the red the white and the black in a pool of water. That is what you get when you dry distill biomass.

  7. #27
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    Thanks to the both of you.

    Also, sweet music in that video
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    I keep trying to expose elements of alchemy that you do not entertain. My explanation is influenced by Ripley’s works. Ripley and other adepts often said they do not write for the sophists or the common and vulgar but for their brothers in the Art.
    Very glad to see you talking about the Ripley scroll!!!! For some reason it is the "text" that most people decide to avoid, but I love it.

    I wanted to use the opportunity to ask you a simple question about it... Do you see there ONE path that begins in the upper part and is "developed" as the roll unfolds? Or do you see FOUR alternative ways of doing the same thing rather than an "ongoing process"?

    My interpretation had always been the first... ONE operation explained from top to bottom of the scroll... but quite recently I began to have my doubts and consider the chance that maybe hs is showing 4 ways (4 alternatives). What do you think?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    Very glad to see you talking about the Ripley scroll!!!! For some reason it is the "text" that most people decide to avoid, but I love it.

    I wanted to use the opportunity to ask you a simple question about it... Do you see there ONE path that begins in the upper part and is "developed" as the roll unfolds? Or do you see FOUR alternative ways of doing the same thing rather than an "ongoing process"?

    My interpretation had always been the first... ONE operation explained from top to bottom of the scroll... but quite recently I began to have my doubts and consider the chance that maybe hs is showing 4 ways (4 alternatives). What do you think?
    Ripley is my favorite alchemist to reveal the secrets of the Philosophy. He subscribes to the paradigm of the alchemical dragon and lion. That is part of an English tradition that also used rhyme to express the alchemical philosophy. I like that alchemical poetry so I enjoy reading Ripley’s scroll process in rhyme and his Compound of Alchemy too.

    I see the scroll as displaying a process that starts at the bottom for the symbolic artwork. The alchemist (Ripley) starts out with his plans (scroll on the staff) and his materials in the sack. We don’t know what is in the sack. I suggest it is his starting matter for the lab work. His hand gestures above to the winged globe. The winged globe with mounted green dragon is symbolic of the entire work concluding with the three principles conjoined in a sphere radiating energy.

    The sphere and its contents represent what Ripley has in his bag. We see in the drawings that blood of the dragon is in the sphere. It is falling in drops that descend into a white material surrounded by a black matter all of which are in a pool of water. The top of the sphere shows that the sphere is sealed and fortified. In the dragon’s mouth are the three things from the sphere only now they have been tooled into equal crescents that open at the top where we find the three things fixed together with chains. That represents the conjoined Stone under the banner in the scroll.

    The foundation of this scene is the color green. According to Ripley and Dunstan green represents the ability to grow attributed to Life. The dragon’s wings are fixed to the sphere. What does a dragon do? It breathes fire and destroys things yet takes treasures back to its cave. The dragon’s cave is in the earth of course. Symbolically Ripley is saying that he put his matter into a vessel and used fire to cause the matter to rise as if it had wings. He sealed his vessel so nothing could escape probably in a horizontal distillation train. In the aftermath of the dragon’s breath he found three things red, white and black.

    Above the banner of the green dragon winged earth sequence is a new foundation where we see the Bird of Hermes standing on a brown sphere being rained upon by a dark cloud being heated by the sun. This is the most secret part of the work. The matter is being heated to sweating temperature in order to coax the Bird of Hermes out of the crude matter after the initial dragon burn. That is the secret salt.

    The next scene is about purification of the elements obtained from the process symbolized in the lower scenes. The four elements and the three principles in a bath (solution) purified by rectification.

    The top scene is the whole process of the Stone depicted in one vessel over one fire. In the lower half of the vessel is a brown matter similar in appearance to the brown sphere in the scene second from the bottom. What is going on in the vessel is the rise and fall of the toad’s blood. The toad is the raw stone compounded from the materials derived from the green dragon burn and the bird sweating. The two baths are for the toad. In the first his blood is purified. In the second he is fed.

    That’s what I think

  10. #30
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    Nice analysis, z0 K! Thanks for sharing!

    Which version of the scroll is your favorite to study?

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