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Thread: EM's P.S. Thread

  1. #141
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    So what is so hard about making the Stone exactly?

    I think I get the general idea, quite simple really.... so then why don't you ALL have the Stone?

    What makes it a difficult process to complete?

    Prima materia, natural seperation, physical seperation, putrifaction, sublimation, a little more heat, coagulation, sublimation, all the while you'd (should be obvious to many of you but sadly i do t think it is) be channelling addition etheric energies into the flask (since it is after all the goal)

    If all goes well a nice red salt and Bobs your auntie.

    What am I forgetting or over-looking?

    It cant really be this easy although i just can't see where the pitfalls are right now....

    The fire regiment is the only issue?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  2. #142
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    Schmuldvich is always asking "Do you think anyone has the Stone?" And im starting to think that quite a few of you do have some very powerful stones. I mean all the info is right here isnt it and you cant all possibly be that lazy as to never have completed this stuff.

    Am i missing something? Or are you all just super secretive about "ownership of stonership"?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    So what is so hard about making the Stone exactly?
    In my opinion, the hardest part about Alchemy is getting acquainted with Hermeticism. Once the foundation and fundamental understanding has been acquired, the principles start to make sense and a general comprehension of how Alchemy works is understood. Then one can being the Work.


    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I think I get the general idea, quite simple really.... so then why don't you ALL have the Stone?
    "Divine Providence", to quote Axismundi


    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    What makes it a difficult process to complete?
    Finding the One Matter, then preparing it, being patient, and then properly proceeding through the Processes.


    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Schmuldvich is always asking "Do you think anyone has the Stone?" And im starting to think that quite a few of you do have some very powerful stones. I mean all the info is right here isnt it and you cant all possibly be that lazy as to never have completed this stuff. Am i missing something?
    People tend to want to complicate the simplicity of the Work and insert their own way of working which does not align with Alchemical principles.

  4. #144
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    My opinion: We're all trying to recreate the "shortcuts" that evolved over the centuries without understanding the original progression, materials, and products. Do you think there were Egyptians that had the stone in 2600BC? The Sumerians in 4000 BC? Who made the first one? What was their viewpoint? Why were they fiddling with the matter in these ways to begin with?

    Beer and Breadmaking? Wine and manna are mentioned in the bible, and it's even been surmised that manna is a special kind of baked good. Unless you think Hermes dropped out of a spaceship (and even if you believe that), at some point in history, someone confectioned this thing without knowing it's powers, perhaps speculation about the nature of certain matters, and trying to produce something from them, even if they didn't know all of the properties from the start. This is why I think chasing gold is silly. We're trying to get to the end without going through the means, or understanding the processes. Maybe we should focus on manna and magic wine, and we'll stumble across the correct formula. Or perhaps even more simply, creating a more perfect "food" that can't be degraded by using metals instead of wheat.

    Just a bit of DT speculation.

  5. #145
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    Well then. I best start the work.

    As there are CLEARLY multiple sources for materia, im going to proceed via the Schmuldvich method. (Simply because it is much cheaper than the method id prefer to use) My own red liquid gold. And ill be maily focusing on what I can do to induce electric and magnetic fluids which seems to be the key to the shortcuts.

    This process normally takes a year, however this is the reason God gave us pyramids. Anyhow, lets see how we go.

    Have you achieved anything of worth through your work Schmuldvich? Ive seen some very beautiful pictures from you of the first salt. Thats very promising. What happened after that? Ever gotten to the red salt?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Have you achieved anything of worth through your work Schmuldvich?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Ive seen some very beautiful pictures from you of the first salt. Thats very promising. What happened after that?
    The salts melted like tears and then sublimed again like doves

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Ever gotten to the red salt?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    ...As there are CLEARLY multiple sources for materia...
    Are you sure about that...?


    "A Magnificent And Select Tract On The Universal Water"

    There is something which everyone recognizes, and whoever does not recognize it will rarely, perhaps never find it. The wise man will keep it and the fool will throw it away, and the reduction comes easily to the man who knows it. But, my son, the greatest secret of all is how to free the stone or mercurium vivum from the natural bonds with which it is bound to the laws of Nature, that is, how to dissolve it and return it to its original water. For if this did not happen, all our work would be in vain, for we could not separate and extract the true spirit or liquid essence which dissolves all corpora. And all the philosophers have kept this dissolution secret, and God the Almighty in His Power has ordered them to do this, and they have cursed and damned the men who have revealed it. For this reason they have spoken only briefly and subtly of the return of this raw body to its original essence, so that it can remain hidden to the ignorant. But you, my son, must understand that this dissolving of the living mercurii to its original state is difficult without knowledge of certain methods, but no sophistic methods can be used, as are used by many coarse ignorant and unknowing fools, who change the mercurium into water using many marvelous arts and believe that it is the true water. They sublimate the mercurium by corrosiva with all sorts of salts and vitriols, whereby the sublimated mercurius draws the spirit of the salts into itself. Then they dissolve the sublimate in water in Balneo or in the cellar or in various other ways. Then they turn it into water using salmiac and herbs, salves or aqua fort, using peculiar apparatus and many sophistic rules, but all of this is mere fantasy, nonsense, useless and in vain. Some of them also think that they can separate certain things from the water of mercury and that it will become the true water which the philosophers desire. The reason for this is simply that they do not heed the words of the philosophers which say quite clearly that it should be mixed with no foreign object on earth.

    "A Brief Outline Of The Whole Philosophia Particulari Demonstrativa"

    But should fortune smile upon him so warmly that he finds the true Philosophical way, he can without doubt rook forward to more and greater successes and see in everything a happy end of that which we have promised him in the first and second part of this treatise, provided the great sovereign, in His ineffable goodness, will likewise bestow His Grace and blessing upon it, without which it is impossible to succeed even in the meanest undertaking no matter how much and how heavy one's work, especially if the love of God and our fellowman were lost sight of - And it is just this love that we recommend. above all to every righteous Christian and especially to those who follow our maxims and are intent on fathoming the deepest secrets of nature. For if it happens that one turns away from his Creator and obeys the deceitful words of the devil, the eyes of his body and soul will be so obscured and darkened that he cannot even see the rarities which God keeps hidden under the dark cover of the philosophical demonstration, let alone comprehend them. And this is the sole reason why so few persons, who mostly keep their thoughts fixed on the probing of the many secrets which it contains, attain to this high science, because their blindness prevents them from distinguishing between realities and sophistries. Instead, those who do not allow themselves to be alienated from our great Sovereign in anyway, obtain their righteous purpose and final goal with little trouble and in great happiness.

    "Hyle & Coahyl"

    This matter is known to all true philosophers, and it is the true Agens and Patiens (active and passive factor), as will be heard later in both operations. The process of making the Lapidem from it does not suffer any sophistry, but it is a work of nature. For nature is quite bad and consists of only one single matter, but, as we have said above, of two substances. Also, you require only one vessel, at most two, and one water in both works.

    "Glory Of The World"

    You have good cause to wonder at the great variety of ways in which the Sages have expressed the same thing. Nevertheless, their descriptions apply only to one Matter, and their sayings refer only to a single substance.

    "Chemical Moonshine"

    You should trouble yourselves neither with the putting together of many things, nor with those things which the Philosophers have set in their books; for the secret of the truth is a single nature, and that has hidden it in its belly, invisibly, and is known only by the sages.

    "Root Of The World

    You ought to put on courage, resolution, and constancy, in attempting this great work, lest you err, and be deceived, sometimes following or doing one thing, and then another. For the knowledge of this art consisteth not in the multiplicity, or great number of things, but in unity; our stone is but one, the matter is one, and the vessel is one. The government is one, and the disposition is one. The whole art and work thereof is one, and begins in one manner, and in one manner it is finished. Notwithstanding the philosophers have subtily delivered themselves, and clouded their instructions with enigmatical and typical phrases and words, to the end that their art might not only be hidden and so continued, but also be had in the greater veneration. Thus they advise to decoct, to commix, and to conjoin, to sublime, to bake, to grind, and to congeal; to make equal, to putrefy, to make white, and to make red; of all which things, the order, management, and way of working is all one, which is only to decoct. And therefore to grind is to decoct, of which you are not to be weary, saith Rhasis: digest continually, but not in haste, that is, not wit too great a fire; cease not, or make no intermission in your work, follow not the artifice of sophisters, but pursue your operation, to the complement and perfection thereof.

    "Zoraster's Cave"

    Although the wise men have varied names and perplext their sayings, yet they allwayes would have us think but of One Thing, one Disposition, one Way, The wise men know this one thing; and, that is one, they have often proved.

    "Coelum Philosophorum"

    Moreover, in this Art nothing is more true than this, though it be little known and gains small confidence. All the fault and cause of difficulty in Alchemy, whereby very many persons are reduced to poverty, and others labour in vain, is wholly and solely lack of skill in the operator, and the defect or excess of materials, whether in quantity or quality, whence it ensues that, in the course of operation, things are wasted or reduced to nothing. If the true process shall have been found, the substance itself while transmuting approaches daily more and more towards perfection. The straight road is easy, but it is found by very few.

    "Compound Of Compounds"

    Take then, in the name of Jesus Christ, our venerable Water of the Philosophers, original Hyle of the Sages; it is the stone that one revealed for you in this treatise. It is the first matter of the perfect body, as you have determined. Put your matter in a furnace, into a clean vessel, clear transparent and round, whose opening you will hermetically seal, so that nothing can escape. Your matter is to be placed on a level bed or surface, slightly hot. You will leave it there for one Philosophical month. Maintain the heat evenly, so that the perspiration of the matter will sublime, until it sweats no longer, that nothing rises or descends, That it begins to putrefy, to suffocate, to coagulate and to fix by maintaining the constancy of the fire. It will not raise more of the exalted, smoky substance, and our Mercury will remain on the bottom, dry, robbed of its humidity, putrefied, coagulated, changed to a black earth, that one calls Head of the Raven, a dry and earthy element. When you have done this, you will have accomplished the genuine sublimation of the Philosophers, during this you will have examined all the aforementioned stages, to wit: sublimation of the Mercury, distillation, coagulation, fixation, in one only vessel and with one only furnace as was stated. Indeed when our stone is in its vessel, and it is increase, one says that there is sublimation or ascension. When afterwards it again settles to the bottom, one says that there is distillation or precipitation. Next, when after the distillation and sublimation, our stone begins to putrefy and to coagulate, it is the putrefaction and the coagulation; finally when it calcines and fixes through the loss of its radical, aqueous humidity. It is the calcinations and fixation; all this is done through the single act of heating, in a single furnace, in a single vessel, as was said.

    "Secret Book Of Artephius"

    It sufficeth thee then to put the bodies in the vessel, and into the water once and for all, and to close the vessel well, until a true separation is made. This the obscure artist calls conjunction, sublimation, assation, extraction, putrefaction, ligation, desponsation, subtilization, generation, etc. Now the whole magistery may be perfected, work, as in the generation of man, and of every vegetable; put the seed once into the womb, and shut it up well. Thus you may see that you need not many things, and that this our work requires no great charges, for that there is but one stone, there is but one medicine, one vessel, one order of working, and one successive disposition to the white and to the red. And although we say in many places, take this, and take that, yet we understand, that it behoves us to take but one thing, and put it once into the vessel, until the work be perfected. But these things are so set down by obscure philosophers to deceive the unwary, as we have before spoken; for is not this "ars cabalistica" or a secret and a hidden art? Is it not an art full of secrets? And believest thou O fool that we plainly teach this secret of secrets, taking our words according to their literal signification? Truly, I tell thee, that as for myself, I am no ways self seeking, or envious as others are; but he that takes the words of the other philosophers according to their common signification, he even already, having lost Ariadne's clue of thread, wanders in the midst of the labyrinth, multiplies errors, and casts away his money for naught.

    "Book Of Morienus"

    The wise varied their maxims and compositions only because they wished them to be understood by men of wisdom and prudence, while the ignorant should remain blind to them; clearly it was for this reason that the wise wrote variously in their books of the stages of the operation. There is but one stage and one path necessary for its mastery. Although all the authorities used different names and maxims, they meant to refer to but one thing, one path and one stage.

  7. #147
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    What are thr practical problems/roadblocks that you have faced in the lab causing you not to succeed?

    Yes i believe it is one matter. SM. I Just believe that there are multiple matters which contain/collect this SM. I'll be starting with the same.matter you use Schmuldvich but I am 100% possitive there are better alternatives. However; this one is much more readily available.

    Does anybody know of any "techniques" that would result in higher yeild of white crystal?

    I was thinking... say you sublime the salts, and then removed them? Would the dry earth attract more spirit all on its own?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    What are thr practical problems/roadblocks that you have faced in the lab causing you not to succeed?
    Ignorance mainly, lack of experience, as well self-imposed impedances and lack of "Divine Providence" (ala Axismundi).

    It is not the right time for me to see Success. All things happen in due time.



    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Does anybody know of any "techniques" that would result in higher yeild of white crystal? I was thinking... say you sublime the salts, and then removed them? Would the dry earth attract more spirit all on its own?
    Why would you want a higher yield of these white crystals?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    So what is so hard about making the Stone exactly?

    I think I get the general idea, quite simple really.... so then why don't you ALL have the Stone?

    What makes it a difficult process to complete?
    Three words: the secret solvent. Discovering how to make it is a Royal Pain in the Neck because the alchemists themselves have purposefully made a veritable chaos out of this crucial subject, to make sure it would be hard as hell to crack it. That, and what exactly to dissolve and treat with it, is why they have written so many vague, obscure and misleading things, specially the absurd "one matter only" transparent trap that so many in past centuries have fallen for over and over, and, incredibly enough, some still do in this day and age. Fortunately, some alchemists (like Zosimos, for example, who keeps kindly warning the reader about this over and over in some of his treatises) have been generous enough to clear up this death-trap and clarify for the seeker that this "one matter only" is actually put together out of several chosen matters by the alchemist himself (this composite is not found already naturally made for your convenience anywhere on this planet, rest assured of that; it has to be made on purpose by the intelligent intervention of man. So if you ever were lucky enough to manage to find it already made "somewhere", it is because an alchemist made it, considering that Nature itself has no friggin' clue how to make it anymore than it does know how to make, say, TNT, teflon or Coca-Cola, yet it still provides mankind with all the raw matters to be able to make these artificial things) and making them react in the right proportions and under the right conditions.

    Prima materia, natural seperation, physical seperation, putrifaction, sublimation, a little more heat, coagulation, sublimation,
    Easier said than done. Without the appropriate solvent or "water", and the right metallic matter dissolved & treated with it, you will never perform these operations (in the alchemical sense of them.)

    all the while you'd (should be obvious to many of you but sadly i do t think it is) be channelling addition etheric energies into the flask (since it is after all the goal)
    This part = pure uncorroborated speculation regarding things no one has any proof that they even exist in the first place.

    What am I forgetting or over-looking?
    As usual, you "forget" that the secret solvent, or "water", or "mercury", or whatever you want to call it, of the alchemists forms an integral part of the finished substance of the Stone, therefore you will NEVER be able to prepare it without discovering what this secret solvent/water is first.

    It cant really be this easy although i just can't see where the pitfalls are right now....
    It isn't. Of course, once you manage to figure out the above mentioned obstacles, the whole thing becomes easier, just like in any other discipline. For example, when bakers first start learning how to make breads and cakes, they too find it more difficult than when they have actually learnt and mastered the "tricks" of their trade. Same with alchemy and any other job that requires acquired skills.

    The fire regiment is the only issue?
    Not even by a long stretch, or at least not later on in the work, when the already prepared matter is "cooking" inside the flask with a linear heat treatment (and given portions of its "food/drink" when it needs it.) The initial stages, which consist in figuring out what are the right matters to use, and their proportions, to compose the "Chaos", "Magnesia", "Saturn", "Sericon", "Azoquean Vitriol", or whatever-you-want-to-call-it initial secret mixture, together with the right operations/temperatures/etc. to submit it to, is the toughest part of the whole subject since most alchemists have barely uttered anything clear and unambiguous regarding this most important of all parts of the work.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    My opinion: We're all trying to recreate the "shortcuts" that evolved over the centuries without understanding the original progression, materials, and products. Do you think there were Egyptians that had the stone in 2600BC? The Sumerians in 4000 BC? Who made the first one? What was their viewpoint? Why were they fiddling with the matter in these ways to begin with?
    Nobody knows. In my opinion it was very likely an accidental discovery, like a lot of other discoveries in the history of mankind. When the appropriate ancient technologies had evolved enough for people to have access to ceramic and glass flasks/bottles, distillation of things other than simple natural substances/mixtures, like common sea water or metallic mercury, for example, was possible (the first notices we have of distillation are in fact of this simple type of natural substances and mixtures, carried out in simpler apparatuses, like boiling copper or iron cauldrons provided with lids and "ridges" that would catch the distillates.) From here on it was only a matter of time until some ancient empiricists would stumble upon the right combination of substances that can generate the secret solvent and the Stone.

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