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Thread: EM's P.S. Thread

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    You are here projecting modern knowledge on people who did not have it. Those old folks knew nothing about things like "silicates" or "bacteria", for example. Sea water is very easy to analyze and see that it is a mixture of two things (fresh water and common salt), but "mud" not so much. It is a more complex mixture. The most people in past centuries could deduce from heating it in a distillation vessel is that it contained water and "earth", but that's about it. Today we know that "mud" can be made up of a bunch of different clays/minerals.
    As having dealt with sea salt, I must say that it is entirely different from common salt, and if you start applying vulgar fire to it to distill the sea water or smth like that, you have high chances of actually killing sea salt.

    Only Mercurius can't be killed, because it is immortal.

    As my research have shown to me, ancients knew about matter thousands times more than modern science, modern science seems to be false all around and based on totally false principles. Alchemical texts should be approached with clean non-prejudiced mind.

  2. #182
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    i suspect you have had this conversation more than once
    one matter, a mixture, 3 different humours etc
    until someone who is successful making the stone comes forward and clarifies
    no one can really tell
    we all have our own approach

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    i suspect you have had this conversation more than once
    one matter, a mixture, 3 different humours etc
    until someone who is successful making the stone comes forward and clarifies
    no one can really tell
    we all have our own approach
    For the moment being, until some of us one day finally empirically finish "the job" and succeed in preparing it, we have to go by two things:

    1- What the reputed "masters" of this "art" say (like the quotations above from one of Zosimos' treatise)

    2- What our own experience and common sense tell us

    So far I don't see how number 2 contradicts number 1. If the Stone exists, as these old masters keep assuring us, it is extremely unlikely that it can actually be prepared with only "one matter", literally. The whole thing looks like a very blatant trap to misguide inexperienced people and send them into a blind alley.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    As having dealt with sea salt, I must say that it is entirely different from common salt, and if you start applying vulgar fire to it to distill the sea water or smth like that, you have high chances of actually killing sea salt.

    Only Mercurius can't be killed, because it is immortal.

    As my research have shown to me, ancients knew about matter thousands times more than modern science, modern science seems to be false all around and based on totally false principles. Alchemical texts should be approached with clean non-prejudiced mind.
    The difference is because modern common salt, whether it comes from the sea or from underground mines, has been refined and purified. If you don't purify it then it contains small amounts of other salts, like magnesium and/or potassium chlorides, mixed up with it. But these differences are more notable for human consumption. For experiments it does not make such a huge difference.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The difference is because modern common salt, whether it comes from the sea or from underground mines, has been refined and purified. If you don't purify it then it contains small amounts of other salts, like magnesium and/or potassium chlorides, mixed up with it. But these differences are more notable for human consumption. For experiments it does not make such a huge difference.
    When you take flower, burn it to ashes and purify those ashes by various different means, in the end you will get ashes, remnants of once living flower.

    Or, as in Schmuldvich example with bread, you can burn it, you won't find flour, sugar, etc., you will find some carbon ashes, which don't make the bread, which are inedible, but which are chemically "pure". You can no longer make anything remotely good from those ashes.

    Same goes for most of mineral substances. Chemical processes kill them. Chemists deal mostly with corpses. It is like necromancy, but applied to minerals. Alchemy is totally different, it deals with something, which is totally ignored by science altogether. It deals with Life and processes of Life. Modern science still cannot give definition of life, and so takes it out of equation in its experiments, torturing poor metals and minerals.

    ...That's how I see it

  6. #186
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    What is (any) matter made of?

    What differentiates one matter from another?

    And what is "matter", anyway?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    What is (any) matter made of?

    What differentiates one matter from another?

    And what is "matter", anyway?
    Oh, Andro, what an important question.

    Trying to put it in less or more exoteric/concealed words, I'd say that all matter consists of one and same substance, which is Divine Love! Some things have more Love, some less...

  8. #188
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    If the Stone exists, as these old masters keep assuring us, it is extremely unlikely that it can actually be prepared with only "one matter", literally. The whole thing looks like a very blatant trap to misguide inexperienced people and send them into a blind alley.
    the trap
    It-is also called a round cloud, death, blackness, darkness, shadow, ashy lead, or a metallic and subtle ore; or it is described, after that which is obtained from it, as gold that was hidden in the body of Magnesia. Hence it is said: "Extract the shadow thereof from the splendour." This also is the substance of which so many have spoken. Three things constitute the true ore, viz., body, soul, and spirit. Hence it is compared to an egg, because in an egg, too, the chicken is developed out of three things. Thus also Alchemy is produced out of the above-mentioned three things, as many philosophers do testify in "The Crowd." The male principle, or the water, is also called the "nature"; for water is a natural agent which dissolves the elements of bodies, and then again unites them. Concerning this water, it is said by Fictes, that its nature has the wonderful power of transmuting the body into spirit. Where it is found alone it overcomes all other things, and is an excellent, harsh, and bitter acid, which transmutes gold into pure spirit. Without this acid we cannot attain either the red, or the black, or the white. When it is combined with bodies, then the body changes into spirit, by a heavenly fire, and immutable, indestructible tincture. Know also that the union must be brought about by a gentle fire, since the elements cannot stand a fierce fire, until the union has taken place. When the gentle heat is applied, the elements devour and consume each other, and yet again, on the other hand, comfort and strengthen each other, and teach each other to stand the test of fire. Hence the Sages say: "Invert the elements, and you will find what you seek." To invert the elements is to make that which is moist, dry, and that which is volatile, fixed. The husband also enforces conjunction that he may reproduce his own likeness. Many strive to accomplish this separation and conjunction; but few succeed in bringing about an union which can stand the test of fire. The composition which is prepared out of our precious substance is not even in the slightest degree diminished in volume by fire. Rather, it is nourished by fire, as a mother nourishes her child.
    Do not marvel that the Sages describe our ore under many names, and as consisting of body, soul, and spirit.
    - Book of Alze

    For it is said, Take a body wherein is Argent Vive, pure, clean, unspotted, and incompleat of Nature: such a body after its compleat and perfect cleansing, is much better than the Bodies of Mineral Sol and Luna.
    Of this self-same body, which is the matter of the Stone, three things are chiefly said; that it is a green Lyon, a stinking Gum, and a white Fume.
    But this is spoken of Philosophers, purposely to deceive Folks, and to bring them into doubts, by the many different names.

    But understand thou shalt, one thing always is really signified, though accidentally and by names it is said to be three: for the Green Lyon, Stinking Gum, and White Fume, are spoken of one and the same subject, wherein they altogether lie hid, until by Art they are made manifest.
    - Philosophia Maturata Of the Stone of the Philosopher

    The numerous writers on our most noble Art have never wearied of singing its praises, and inventing for it new and glorious names. Its most precious object they have called the PHILOSOPHER'S STONE, or the most ancient, secret, natural, incomprehensible, heavenly, blessed, beatified, and triune universal Stone of the Sages. Their reason for naming it a stone, or likening it to a stone, was this: First because its original Matter is really a kind of stone, which, being hard and solid like a stone, may be pounded, reduced to powder, and resolved into its three elements (which Nature herself has joined together), and then again may be re-combined into a solid stone of the fusibility of wax: by the skilled hand of the artist adjusting the law of Nature.
    - The Waterstone of the Wise

    Now in answer to your question as to whether this operation has one root or many, know that it has but one, and but one matter and one substance of which and with which alone it is done, nor is anything added to it or subtracted to it. When certain of his disciples asked Herakleios what you have asked me, he told them how a single root grows into many tings which return again to one, if they get air. Ostanes declared that the four elements, heat, wetness, cold and dryness, are basically one, and that certain of these four are compounded of the others, as though some were roots of which the others are composed. The true roots are water and fire, and composed of these are earth and air. Also, Ostanes, said to Maria that it is our quicksilver that has dominance over our earth, being very clear and pure, while earth is made is made of crudest water. And Hermes said that earth is the mother of the elements, which are born of her and return to her. Moses, too, said all things come of the earth and return to it. As Hermes said, just as all things come of one, so also is the Great Work done with one thing and one substance. Even so does man contain the four elements united in his body, though God created them variously as dry or separate, joined and collected or scattered. But each operation functions in a different way, having its own color and proper application. It is thus that this matter is to be understood. The philosophers have given many such confirmations".
    - The Book of Morienus

    1- What the reputed "masters" of this "art" say (like the quotations above from one of Zosimos' treatise)
    to be weary and shrewd of all reputed masters and study nature

    2- What our own experience and common sense tell us
    to look to nature

    For the moment being, until some of us one day finally empirically finish "the job" and succeed in preparing it
    i hope someone does, a big step for mankind
    Last edited by Kibric; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:54 PM.

  9. #189
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    All you need is love.

    OR 584 Hertz pumped through a rodin coil

    I Was really thinking deeply about reality today and I was focused on opening the base Chakra and I was using my Franz Bardon training, and it was great anyway; its hard to put it all into words.

    I realized how important it is to get your sexual energy up into the heart zone thats for sure.

    Jesus - "If you have not love, you can do nothing."
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    the trap

    - Book of Alze
    Which quotation in fact implies that it is not "one matter only".

    - Philosophia Maturata Of the Stone of the Philosopher
    Which is a MANIPULATED & MUTILATED version of a text attributed to St. Dunstan, which in fact says this:

    "Of this very Body the matter of the Stone, three things are chiefly spoken, viz. The green Lion, Assa foetida, and the white Fume; but this is inferred by the Philosophers FROM THE COMPOUND, that they might answer the foolish according to their own folly, and deceive them by the divers multiplicity of names."


    - The Book of Morienus
    Which then soon begins to openly contradict such a statement by mentioning several matters under several "decknamen" (not under their real names) as the components of the Stone:

    "But that which prepares this body is blood, or virgin's milk,for it unites and joins ALL THE VARIOUS SUBSTANCES AND PROPERTIES INTO ONE BODY, it being only necessary to apply to them a gentle heat that long continues at the same degree, neither increasing nor decreasing."

    "THE THINGS in which the entire accomplishment of this operation consists are the red vapor, the yellow vapor, the white vapor, the green lion, ocher, the impurities of the dead and of the stones, blood, eudica, and foul earth."

    "The whole key to accomplishment of this operation is in the fire, with which THE MINERALS are prepared and the bad spirits held back, and with which the spirit and body are joined."


    to be weary and shrewd of all reputed masters and study nature
    What for? It is those masters who made it, not nature.

    to look to nature
    Which does NOT make the Stone and therefore can actually teach you JACK-SQUAT regarding the subject. "Follow Nature" = Philosophical Lip Service = Blind Alley. The reason why this "advice" is so freely dispensed by so many alchemists is in fact because IT ACTUALLY LEADS NOWHERE. You might as well tell people to "Follow the Shoemaker" in order to learn how to perform heart surgery!

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