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Thread: EM's P.S. Thread

  1. #211
    I agree JDP. I have several family members who would have died if modern medicine had not been available.

  2. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    You can get an idea of what was going on back then by examining human remains of those times. A lot of people died while they were still young. During historical times it is actually easier to get an idea because on top of the human remains we also have historical accounts. In past centuries people tended to marry and have children when they were younger precisely because life expectancy was also lower. Instead of maligning progress, we should be thankful that progress in medicine has largely contributed to lower the mortality rate. It is one of the main reasons why on average we live longer in our age than those before.
    Even modern science admits that mere 1000 years is enough to totally clear any evidence of highly progressed races from the face of tge Earth.

    Imagine catastrophe and technological collapse. Then someone 1000 years later will start examining human bones in Ethiopia and will notice they are mostly children. They will think that radioschemes are some kind of Magic Sigils, which were worshiped (admittedly our formulas would look like conjurations on some barbarous language to them).

    They, post-catatstrophe people, will barely live 50 years but will claim that it is huge progress, because earlier people were living only to 20 tops and they will have lots of human remains to back up such claims.

    They will burn coal for their needs and build wooden houses and say that their ancestors lived in caves, worshiped some stones and didn't even know how to cut trees.

    What I wrote about hypothetical future is exactly what happens now. We live in Dark Age. And it seems that it is going to be even darker with time. Hermetic texts and some ancient Eastern texts provide some clues on how to access the Knowledge of old races, and from what I saw - this knowledge FAR surpasses anything that modern people know about this world.

    One won't learn anything from Hermetic texts if he thinks that alchemists knew less than modern science, why then go into Alchemy? It is "pseudo science" with little to no practical evidence of its results. Chemistry provides all the necessary medicines, and lets one randomly live up to 100 years. Oh wait, Socrates lived for 70 years before execution, Plato lived for 80 years, and anything before them is factually incomplete (as if there is some black zone few thousands years ago after which human civilization "suddenly" appeared).

    Also, Socrates was very poor and wasn't able to afford even the medicine of his time... My grandfather, on other hand, died even before getting to 60 while doctors tried to save him by their highly toxic and very expensive pills (granted it was many years ago, but funnily enough the same pills are still used even nowadays). And he didn't die from cancer or some other "incurable" disease of "modern times", he died being worked out by current society. Woot, what a progress....

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    Even modern science admits that mere 1000 years is enough to totally clear any evidence of highly progressed races from the face of tge Earth.

    Imagine catastrophe and technological collapse. Then someone 1000 years later will start examining human bones in Ethiopia and will notice they are mostly children. They will think that radioschemes are some kind of Magic Sigils, which were worshiped (admittedly our formulas would look like conjurations on some barbarous language to them).

    They, post-catatstrophe people, will barely live 50 years but will claim that it is huge progress, because earlier people were living only to 20 tops and they will have lots of human remains to back up such claims.

    They will burn coal for their needs and build wooden houses and say that their ancestors lived in caves, worshiped some stones and didn't even know how to cut trees.

    What I wrote about hypothetical future is exactly what happens now. We live in Dark Age. And it seems that it is going to be even darker with time. Hermetic texts and some ancient Eastern texts provide some clues on how to access the Knowledge of old races, and from what I saw - this knowledge FAR surpasses anything that modern people know about this world.

    One won't learn anything from Hermetic texts if he thinks that alchemists knew less than modern science, why then go into Alchemy? It is "pseudo science" with little to no practical evidence of its results. Chemistry provides all the necessary medicines, and lets one randomly live up to 100 years. Oh wait, Socrates lived for 70 years before execution, Plato lived for 80 years, and anything before them is factually incomplete (as if there is some black zone few thousands years ago after which human civilization "suddenly" appeared).

    Also, Socrates was very poor and wasn't able to afford even the medicine of his time... My grandfather, on other hand, died even before getting to 60 while doctors tried to save him by their highly toxic and very expensive pills (granted it was many years ago, but funnily enough the same pills are still used even nowadays). And he didn't die from cancer or some other "incurable" disease of "modern times", he died being worked out by current society. Woot, what a progress....
    Should some catastrophe happen that wipes out our current civilization, archaeologists from the future will still be able to figure out things about us just by examining the remains of our populated areas. They will be able to tell that most of our dead were in fact not children and teenagers but people well into their adult age. We do have a good idea how life was in prehistoric times through the same means. Much more people died at young ages then than now. It was a much more dangerous world, where people were even still being preyed on by large carnivores, and their knowledge of medicine and sanitation was in diapers. There is nothing "mysterious" about why so many of them did not make it past their youth.

    Chemistry hasn't figured out alchemy (and also what I like to call "transmutational chymistry") because of a series of ASSUMPTIONS it has made regarding the subject. Its theoretical framework prevents it from doing a proper investigation of the subject because it starts by telling its practitioners that the whole thing is "impossible". So they defeat themselves even before they have started investigating the subject. But still, if you compare alchemy's to chemistry's empirical achievements, it goes without saying that chemistry is a MILLION times more useful to mankind than alchemy ever was. Just by looking at all the useful material goods that chemistry has managed to figure out how to make one can easily perceive this. The very computer that you are using right now to communicate with us in these forums, for example, would be IMPOSSIBLE without chemistry's achievements. Chemistry is a progressive science. Alchemy, on the other hand, always remained in its same old corner it always was in: make the Philosophers' Stone, use it to make gold & silver, and examine its medicinal properties. Which is great, nothing wrong with that, but still a very limited scope when compared to chemistry. And one really should not blame alchemy for having remained "stagnant": it accomplished its goals. There was really not much else for it to do. Chemistry, on the other hand, has much wider goals in mind than alchemy, it wants to investigate and know all there is to know about all aspects of matter, so naturally it continues to expand and progress. To me each science has its merits and its cons, and I myself am very openly critical about chemistry's mistaken ideas regarding transmutation, but in all honesty I have to admit that chemistry is way more useful to mankind than alchemy ever was. Alchemy was always stagnant and elitist. It did not care one bit to benefit all of mankind with its discoveries, only a comparative select few (that's why alchemists came up with all those tons of "decknamen" and other literary devices to make the subject more difficult to figure out by the laymen; note this attitude well. Alchemy effectively segregated itself from the bulk of humanity.) Chemistry, on the other hand, is open and clear in its communications, it does not seek to exclude anyone from its discoveries, and it remains progressive, always seeking new facts, never resting on its laurels. A very different attitude.

  4. #214
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    The way I see it, the direction of "modern" medical chemistry is to "manage" symptoms and medical conditions rather than address the causes at the source and actually cure people. Basically, to make sure sick people live longer with their "diseases" so they can spend more money on "managing" them.

    The medical industry is driven by profit, like most/all industries (nothing inherently wrong with profit, and I'm definitely not a communist ), but imagine this: You are a pharmaceutical company that manufactures a variety of medical drugs. The LAST thing you want is to produce a CURE. Your interest will be to keep selling pharmaceuticals to MANAGE the disease/symptoms and maintain sales. With a few exceptions, permanently curing a disease is NOT profitable. Such exceptions would be in most cases related to the danger of massive losses in the ranks of the fit working class.

    Chemistry, on the other hand, is open and clear in its communications, it does not seek to exclude anyone from its discoveries.
    Unless such discoveries pose a threat to the prevailing political/commercial paradigms.

    Has anyone heard of Rife and how his cancer curing device was literally destroyed by the "authorities", along with all his research? Have you heard about the imprisonment of people such as Hamer and Reich and the destruction of their documented research? And it wasn't even Alchemy, just very advanced scientific innovation.

    A possible Universal Medicine would be a real threat to this paradigm. For such a Universal Medicine to become "mainstream" would require radical changes in our currently prevailing social/financial/political paradigms.

    Alchemy effectively segregated itself from the bulk of humanity.
    And for good reason, IMO. See comments above. Society at large is simply NOT READY. Most people (especially in our "glorified" West) are happy paying half of their yearly wages to their ineffective governments. A radical worldwide change in mentality is highly unlikely. So, until that happens (if ever), areas such as Alchemy, Free Energy, Anti-Gravity, etc, will remain "elitist" and off the common table.

    If anyone would (hypothetically) hold the Philosopher's Stone and the Universal Medicine in their hands, what should they do? And what would be the consequences?

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    What are thr practical problems/roadblocks that you have faced in the lab causing you not to succeed?

    Yes i believe it is one matter. SM. I Just believe that there are multiple matters which contain/collect this SM. I'll be starting with the same.matter you use Schmuldvich but I am 100% possitive there are better alternatives. However; this one is much more readily available.

    Does anybody know of any "techniques" that would result in higher yeild of white crystal?

    I was thinking... say you sublime the salts, and then removed them? Would the dry earth attract more spirit all on its own?
    What starting matter are you using elixirmixer? So your approach is to produce some crystals and then charge them with SM in a pyramid or Orgone accumulator? You should read the work of Viktor Schauberger, I think you will find his ideas about living and dead water interesting.

  6. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    The way I see it, the direction of "modern" medical chemistry is to "manage" symptoms and medical conditions rather than address the causes at the source and actually cure people. Basically, to make sure sick people live longer with their "diseases" so they can spend more money on "managing" them.

    The medical industry is driven by profit, like most/all industries (nothing inherently wrong with profit, and I'm definitely not a communist ), but imagine this: You are a pharmaceutical company that manufactures a variety of medical drugs. The LAST thing you want is to produce a CURE. Your interest will be to keep selling pharmaceuticals to MANAGE the disease/symptoms and maintain sales. With a few exceptions, permanently curing a disease is NOT profitable. Such exceptions would be in most cases related to the danger of massive losses in the ranks of the fit working class.

    Unless such discoveries pose a threat to the prevailing political/commercial paradigms.

    Has anyone heard of Rife and how his cancer curing device was literally destroyed by the "authorities", along with all his research? Have you heard about the imprisonment of people such as Hamer and Reich and the destruction of their documented research? And it wasn't even Alchemy, just very advanced scientific innovation.

    A possible Universal Medicine would be a real threat to this paradigm. For such a Universal Medicine to become "mainstream" would require radical changes in our currently prevailing social/financial/political paradigms.

    And for good reason, IMO. See comments above. Society at large is simply NOT READY. Most people (especially in our "glorified" West) are happy paying half of their yearly wages to their ineffective governments. A radical worldwide change in mentality is highly unlikely. So, until that happens (if ever), areas such as Alchemy, Free Energy, Anti-Gravity, etc, will remain "elitist" and off the common table.

    If anyone would (hypothetically) hold the Philosopher's Stone and the Universal Medicine in their hands, what should they do? And what would be the consequences?
    The salient point here is that life expectancy in countries with good modern medicine services has increased by literally decades. This may be in part due to prosperity (having enough food, better housing, sanitation etc) as well as medicine. What people choose to do with this longer life and improved life conditions is not entirely Ďtop downí. People are to some extent responsible for their own life choices and refuse to see outside the absurd conflicting ensemble of social and human relations the comprises modern life in affluent countries. Modern medicine in my view does not necessarily promote this mentality in fact the opposite sometimes. For example the increase in type 2 diabetes due to junk food and high sugar foods is something that is regularly warned against by the British medical association (BMA) here in the UK yet this problem continues to worsen. The idea that modern medicine seeks to produce dependancy on drugs and services is simply not true as far as I can tell. The BMA sees drug dependency as a major problem which is associated I feel with one of the other great advances over the last 150 years in medicine; pain relief in surgeries or for general chronic pain. A few centuries ago many died screaming in agony but this need not be so in the current day.

  7. #217
    The salient point here is that life expectancy in countries with good modern medicine services has increased by literally decades. This may be in part due to prosperity (having enough food, better housing, sanitation etc) as well as medicine.
    I live on the margin of two "worlds". One world near me is huge metropolis. Its air is poisoned, people talk with each other on language of lies, there are barely any green plants there. There people have illusion of prosperity living in their toxic world.

    On other hand there is another world - dying cities and villages, where people live on less than 100 dollars a month, a lot of homeless people, while big salesmen increase the price of small living apartments to astronomical numbers. It is like historical XIIth century in that world. Lack of food, no sanitation and high crime rate rule there.

    And modern medicine is just a joke. Over 10 years ago I broke hand, and so wanted to visit doctor a few years later just to had advice of "removing" broken bones. Horrified I simply refused and continued to live with it, and it seems that broken bones are slightly recovered over course of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    A few centuries ago many died screaming in agony but this need not be so in the current day.
    There were many different kinds of anesthetics, but they were produced purely from natural materials. It isn't economically sustainable to produce such anesthetics in our time, so they are replaced by those which can be put in quick and mass production. Which leads to another problem of modern people - critical overpopulation, there is totally no demographic policy, because it hurts capitalistic ideas of infinite growth and expansion. Earth, however, isn't infinite. When there are 7 billions of people, there will simply be not enough food, clothes, real medicines, pure water, etc. for all of them, so they have to deal with cheap and dirty substitutes.

    Theoretically, if people get access to physical immortality, they will totally destroy this planet if they won't limit their massive generation. People don't have control over their instincts of progeneration, it is way too early to speak about mass availability of real medicine. However, as many wise people noted, physical immortality is a necessary step toward real progress. But currently mankind as a whole looks like demented child and given immortality it will destroy itself and planet with it. This is also the reason why Adepts always wrote in riddles and coded language, such knowledge could easily be used to oppress the poor and the sick even more by provoking new even Darker Age.

    As many old texts note, even Bible, though I consider its legends to be corrupted, people's downfall started when they started abusing their knowledge to hurt those who are around them. And so they fell from their pedestals of Godlike Entities into total Darkness of Matter, losing all they knew, and they still insist on doing what they did - oppressing the weak, trying to get control over other living entities and enslaving them and such. The more I think about it, the more sad I feel about the current state of the world.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    The medical industry is driven by profit, like most/all industries (nothing inherently wrong with profit, and I'm definitely not a communist ), but imagine this: You are a pharmaceutical company that manufactures a variety of medical drugs. The LAST thing you want is to produce a CURE. Your interest will be to keep selling pharmaceuticals to MANAGE the disease/symptoms and maintain sales. With a few exceptions, permanently curing a disease is NOT profitable. Such exceptions would be in most cases related to the danger of massive losses in the ranks of the fit working class.
    Another good example of this is, awhile back, the World Health Organization did a study on which “medicines” would be viable to health in third world countries, as they were looking to set up aid programs. They found that only 2% of drugs on the western market were actually useful.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  9. #219
    I do not doubt that people can be silly and foolish or that cities pollute. However the actual observable reality is that in a modern affluent country people live about 30 years longer than they did 200 years ago. Modern medicine has played a major part in this and to suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of simple observation. Here in the UK people live much longer and donít die from the diseases they used to die from; eg polio or TB. I would take what you say more seriously if you accepted these actual observable facts. Iím sure in poorer countries it is different this is why UK has an immigration problem. If you come here you live decades longer your children are less likely to die, free healthcare etc.

    I have no issue with the idea that modern medicine has limitations, not holistic, not spiritual stuff like that. But to suggest as it seems to me here that it is inherently bad well the observable benefits of a functioning healthcare system refute this. So yes if you canít get access to proper modern healthcare for whatever reason Iím sure it is different but when you can it is a benefit.

  10. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    I do not doubt that people can be silly and foolish or that cities pollute. However the actual observable reality is that in a modern affluent country people live about 30 years longer than they did 200 years ago.
    But what about Socrates? Poor man who couldn't afford medicine of this time, was executed at 70, and he was on legs and in his own mind?
    What about Plato who lived till 80?
    What about Democritus who lived around 90 years?

    Just for anecdotic examples, people who work in mines become cripples even in their 40 - this is still common situation of today. People die because of working 8 days a week 30 hours a day for piece of bread, or while working on toxic factories - all of those are mostly based in 2nd+ world countries, which feed 1st world countries. No medicine can help those people who basically sacrifice their lives for piece of bread and that so super elite could feel themselves rich. Gas/oil/coal/metallurgy - some people never even saw those, while others die from sulfuric intoxication and such. Current joke medicine doesn't even try to help those people.

    Of course, when you remove such factors out of the picture, people will look as if they live longer. But is it because of science/medicine or just because there is other, larger half of world, which does all the dirty job to feed the rest?

    And even now we can't get proper statistics because of so many homeless people, which are simply not counted anywhere, and each year there is more and more of those. What to say about 200 years ago? Especially if to consider that statistics was always an instrument of manipulation and even current story becomes corrupted by the efforts of politicians?

    I don't want to look like religious fanatic, I don't like religion (because it is full of lies and manipulations and it made people forget God instead of leading to Him). But if you entrust yourself in the hands of God, you will see how deeply rotten is this world, and you will see Lost Paradise, you will see and experience the most marvelous things. And only through God can one get understanding of Alchemical matters. As Basilius Valentine wrote: "The first thing is Invocatio Dei". This is the start of the work and, for some reason, many people refuse to believe it even when they are told directly and in plain words.

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