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Thread: Hermeticism vs. Gnosticism - Differences

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    You cannot learn about love if there is no hate.
    I agree, based on my experiences. And where Love teaches sympathy, unity and compassion (and etc.), Hate teaches equally well the virtues of strength, resilience and fortitude (and etc.).
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

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    The following comes from Walter Russell's "The Universal One"



    I believe it completely agrees with hermeticism and the God of Christianity. Looking at the universe that way blew up my mind. To think that we don't exist apart, that there are not many, but ONE. That everything is a different manifestation of the One, that "comes" into existance as a result of the motion of the One substance. Therefore all things are One and all return to One.

    The All of Hermeticism is the One from which all springs forth. And that One is not apart from the physical universe. It IS the universe

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Also if a God is not a creator it is not a God.
    No one creates anything. Everything already exists, even if only in potential.

    Whoever poses as 'creator(s)' - all they do is download and 'fix' their own version of reality into the (perceived as fixed) realm of the left-brained realm of the 'White Sun'.

    The 'Black Sun' is the sub/super-conscious of all possibilities/probabilities, while the 'White Sun' is the left-brain conscious intent and reality-fixing agent.

    If (for example) we contemplate the classical Yin-Yang symbol beyond the exoteric meaning traditionally associated with it, we may glimpse into some much deeper mysteries...

    A fully active, internalized and synchronized feedback loop between the Black Sun and the White Sun (which may be loosely compared to 'Mercury' and 'Sulfur', respectively) would allow us the same 'reality download access' as those who pose as 'creator gods'.

    The 'dividing' area inside the Yin-Yang symbol is representative of the 'veil' or 'dual mirror' between the realm of UN-manifest and manifest probabilities. The double-faced figure of Janus is an allegory for having 'eyes' in both wolds.

    There is no 'creator god'.

    Many so-called 'Hermetic' writings (such as the 'Kybalion') are partially well conceived psy-op scripts (so is the bible script/code in many ways, including 'predictive programming'), designed to implant us with certain fixed, rigid and hierarchical models of reality, but if we read (for example) the Kybalion, we can discern that it is FULL of logical fallacies, as well as conveniently avoiding the most significant 'questions'.

    I personally find the Walter Russel quote above to be quite accurate in many ways, as much as anything can be 'accurate' in a reality that is marketed and implanted into us as 'fixed', but is in fact far from being so.

    What is described in Gnosticism as 'Archons' can be seen as 'beings' (or constructs) who can 'download' their own reality models from 'the other side of the looking glass' and subsequently market them to us as 'this is the way it is'. Marketing propaganda is accomplished via two main methods: Seduction and Intimidation. These 'Archons' also love to 'pose' as 'creators', but this is not the case. One could say they may have better developed 'download access' abilities through the 'looking glass', from where already exiting potential realities are downloaded and marketed as 'Creation'.






  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    No one creates anything. Everything already exists, even if only in potential. Whoever poses as 'creator(s)' - all they do is download and 'fix' their own version of reality into the (perceived as fixed) realm of the left-brained realm of the 'White Sun'. There is no 'creator god'.
    You are correct if you are speaking about "lower" level aspects of the Mystical Algorithm of the Divine. If you are speaking about "God" then I disagree.

    But the Origin/Source... the Uncreated Self-generating Divine Light Mystery... aka God... is a Creator. Anything within/without of this "God" falls under the views you just stated... but none of these things would exist at all if the Source had not "created" them.

    The Kogi people have this creation myth, which is one of the best I have ever come across and fits perfectly all the theories/ideas and direct experiences I have had:
    In the beginning there was nothing. All was darkness. There was nothing at all. Only the mother. She was Aluna. She was pure thought. Without form. She began to think. The mother conceived the world in the darkness. She conceived us as ideas. As we think out a house before we begin to make it real. She spun the thread. Spinning us all in the story. Creating us in thought. And then came the light. And the world was real. - source
    Notice that the "nothing" is not nothing, because Aluna/God was there. Meaning "nothing" + "god" is the same thing... or there would be just nothing.

    The Big Bang is a creation.

    If everything inside this creation is already created, even all time lines and pasts and futures... sure fine... but the source is creation.

    The Macrocosm of God is Creation... and that is why the highest forms of endeavours humans can take up is the Microcosmic form of Creation: shamanism, art, alchemy, music, literature, films, love (babies)...

    It is not a trap. It is a mirror of the "man" upstairs.

    So yes by performing Sacred Art (creation) we are dowloading and fixing some version of reality... but any Sacred Art of the highest order achieves transcendence for the practitioner (for the creator) regardless if it is a download or an actual creation. Complete passivity will lead nowhere. The silent monk who does nothing has validity, but we must not be fooled that such a monk does "nothing"... that he is trying to avoid any form of creation. Far from it.

    To be able to achieve complete unity with the mind of God, with the unknown nothingness, is a Creation of achieving "true" perception and ultimately a liberation from the Creation in the first place.

    I don't see a dualism in this. Uncreated vs. Created.

    Rather I see everything as Created and yet everything as Uncreated, since - like the song goes... "row row row your boat gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily merrily... life is but a dream".

    IMHO.



    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    ...designed to implant us with certain fixed, rigid and hierarchical models of reality...
    Which can also includes your own views (and my own) as none is "safe" from such models/designs (lack of hierarchy is a sort of hierarchy of one/none)... so beware.

    Last edited by Awani; 01-18-2017 at 06:13 PM. Reason: typo + ps
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    IF by 'creation' you mean the 'fixing' of certain variations from the UN-Created infinite realm of probabilities, then the disagreement is merely a semantic issue.

    But the realm of the 'Black Sun' (call it 'Aluna', if you will) was/is never created and is beyond ALL our concepts of space & time. It doesn't 'create' either, there is nothing to be created that doesn't already exist in the so-called 'Dark Dimension' (so named as well as allegorically represented in the movie 'Doctor Strange', where for some weird reason it is portrayed as 'evil')

    In term of infinite possibilities/probabilities, there is no 'nothing'. Still, perceived reality is merely a 'collapse of the wave function' or a 'collapse of a set of probabilities into a perceived state of 'fixation'. Or, the rendering of a 'wave' into a 'particle' (like in the double slit experiment).

    Becoming 'Whole' or 'Liberated' involves (the way I see it) the internal unification of the 2 realms (Above & Below, Left and Right, conscious and sub/super-conscious - return to be KNOWN - not 'perceived' - as 'One Thing'). Hemispheric Synchronization, in more 'modern' terms. The 'Janus' hermaphrodite become androgynous. The two Suns become known as ONE.

    What choices are available when this is accomplished - I don't gno.

  6. #16
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    To know is a perception, because even in the knowing of the highest order - when there is no doubt - there will always be the unknown possibility.

    Becoming Whole = Creation

    I diasagree that the Black Sun, as you call it, does not create. Frankly it is the opposite. It does nothing but create. To be fair when something acts in a perpetual manner it might seem static to the outsider.

    If "it" did not create we would not have this conversation.

    So to a degree there might be some semantic issue, but also there seems to be a sort of difference in outlook. IMO.

    All I have stated thus far I know deeply, but I do not claim to "know". That would be silly.

    Last edited by Awani; 01-18-2017 at 07:07 PM. Reason: extra input
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    All I have stated thus far I know deeply, but I do not claim to "know".
    The 'Looking Glass' or 'Dual Mirror' I've mentioned above has this interesting quality of reflecting our convictions back at us, even if they contradict each other

    Now, to take these concepts a bit further, on our physical plane, this 'Looking Glass' or 'Veil' or 'Dual Mirror' (or Separator) can be (metaphorically or not) associated with the surface/water level.

    From the preface of Nietzsche's 'The Gay Science':

    Where you stand, there dig deep!
    Below you lies the well!
    Let obscurantists wail and weep:
    "Below is always - hell!"


    The 'Light of the 'Black Sun' (limitless, UN-specified potential) rises from (below) Earth -> to (above) Heaven ('White Sun'/Left Brain/fixation/collapse of probability via Conscious Intent) and thus gathers the 'powers' of both 'Above' and 'Below', to accomplish the 'Miracle of One Thing'.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    The Demiurge is Satan. Satan is a fallen angel. Archetypically speaking that is.
    The gnostic concept of the Demiurge aka Satan is a negative one, correct? Why is this Demiurge allowed to operate, what is the point? Wouldn't that make the gnostic transcendent God a positive one and hence subordinate it to the dualistic concept? And if it wouldn't make God a positive one, what is still the point?
    In the hermetic philosophy, as far as i know, the All is untouched of any of the 7 hermetic laws (Kybalion), it is the law above the laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post

    You cannot learn about love if there is no hate.

    That makes a lot of sense to me. But would the neutral balance between love and hate not be the ideal state? Both are the same thing, just very polar, on the opposite end of the scale. If you love a lot, you can hate a lot too. If you can be very euphoric, you can be very melancholic too, etc. I think a "neutral" level of all conditions and states, is a form of (auto)control. For me, love is a desirable state, but the right thing perhaps might be a neutral state, free of emotions, the perfect balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon View Post
    The following comes from Walter Russell's "The Universal One"



    I believe it completely agrees with hermeticism and the God of Christianity. Looking at the universe that way blew up my mind. To think that we don't exist apart, that there are not many, but ONE. That everything is a different manifestation of the One, that "comes" into existence as a result of the motion of the One substance. Therefore all things are One and all return to One.

    The All of Hermeticism is the One from which all springs forth. And that One is not apart from the physical universe. It IS the universe
    It says that "God is the universe. God is not one and the universe another". So this is, in my interpretation, a pantheistic view. God is in everything that is. But when hermeticism teaches that the universe is a mental thought of the All, it means that is separated from God/All. If i send out a thought, it is sent away. I am not my thought, i am the father of my thought. Tho, possible that it's true, but then it would contradict to the hermetic idea IMHO.
    Also, which kind of universe is meant? The physical one, the mental one, the spiritual one or all of them?
    The Kybalion for example talks about 3 different planes (chapter VIII, planes of correspondence).
    And do we carry the often mentioned divine spark in us? Is the spark on a long journey to finally reunite with the all?
    Sorry for the many questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post

    Many so-called 'Hermetic' writings (such as the 'Kybalion') are partially well conceived psy-op scripts (so is the bible script/code in many ways, including 'predictive programming'), designed to implant us with certain fixed, rigid and hierarchical models of reality, but if we read (for example) the Kybalion, we can discern that it is FULL of logical fallacies, as well as conveniently avoiding the most significant 'questions'.

    I personally find the Walter Russel quote above to be quite accurate in many ways, as much as anything can be 'accurate' in a reality that is marketed and implanted into us as 'fixed', but is in fact far from being so.
    Could you give some examples of the fallacies and avoidance of the most significant questions? I remember i had some doubts about some teachings, it's a shame i don't remember them at the moment, i should start making notes. In summary it had pretty much "Aha"-effects for me. This is my first book. Could you give advices for other, maybe "better" books to read and learn?
    Last edited by Quarrox; 01-18-2017 at 07:23 PM. Reason: grammar

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    It says that "God is the universe. God is not one and the universe another". So this is, in my interpretation, a pantheistic view. God is in everything that is. But when hermeticism teaches that the universe is a mental thought of the All, it means that is separated from God/All. If i send out a thought, it is sent away. I am not my thought, i am the father of my thought. Tho, possible that it's true, but then it would contradict to the hermetic idea IMHO.
    Also, which kind of universe is meant? The physical one, the mental one, the spiritual one or all of them?
    The Kybalion for example talks about 3 different planes (chapter VIII, planes of correspondence).
    And do we carry the often mentioned divine spark in us? Is the spark on a long journey to finally reunite with the all?
    Sorry for the many questions.
    My understanding is that there is One Mind and One Essence, and this One Essence by "moving" generates to "illusion" of duality, then of multiplicity and then of separation. Thats the easiest way i can put it. Its topics like this when you realize how restraining human language is. Maybe because we are trying to describe things of which we know nothing similar or close in qualities. Its like trying to explain colors to a blind by birth. The 3 universes of the Kybalion all exist simultanously and are groups that contain the primordial essence vibrating in certain frequencies (like the Infrared group is ONE group that contains MANY wavelengths etc.). The physical universe is the one where what we call "physical" is primordial essence vibrating at another group of vibrations. In short, all the so called "different" universes are the effect of One substance vibrating and the "illusion" of them being different is only due to how our mind operates. Its like saying snow, ice,water and steam are different. They are the same thing in different vibratory states. As for the last question, i do believe it is. I don't know what God's goal is by doing all this or if there even is any (as the gospel's say "the Lord's will is unkown") and i also do not believe that God wants you to eternally "burn" in hell. If i recall correctly, hell is actually called "purgatory" which in a sense could mean to wash ignorance off of yourself and show you the true nature of things. The only thing i see keeping you in "hell" is your own self.

  10. #20
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    This is how I see it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    Why is this Demiurge allowed to operate, what is the point?
    Everything is a lesson, and "God" is the teacher.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    That makes a lot of sense to me. But would the neutral balance between love and hate not be the ideal state? Both are the same thing, just very polar, on the opposite end of the scale.
    I disagree. Your statement only makes sense to me if you are talking about "like" and "hate". Love, at least in the sense I see it, is a totally different affair... the English language has raped the word "love"... it is even used in sentences like "I Love Candy"... in other languages this word is - for the most part - only used in the most special cases such as "I Love You".

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    But when hermeticism teaches that the universe is a mental thought of the All, it means that is separated from God/All.
    Are you separated from what you think? Are you the body or the mind or the spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    Could you give advices for other, maybe "better" books to read and learn?
    Early on in my own studies these books helped me a lot. I have not read them in years so I don't know how I would feel about them now... but when I was a novice, of sorts, in this area of study then these are a few of the books that aided me a great deal:
    • The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall
    • Hermes Unveiled by Roy Norvill
    • Gnostic Philosophy by Tobias Churton
    • Alchemy Recovered and Restored by Archibald Cockren
    • The Golden Chain of Homer

    Last edited by Awani; 01-18-2017 at 10:48 PM.
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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