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Thread: Hermeticism vs. Gnosticism - Differences

  1. #21
    @Andro + @Dev:

    Many thanks for your statements, its something to think about again. And also for the book recommendations!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Many so-called 'Hermetic' writings (such as the 'Kybalion') are partially well conceived psy-op scripts (so is the bible script/code in many ways, including 'predictive programming'), designed to implant us with certain fixed, rigid and hierarchical models of reality, but if we read (for example) the Kybalion, we can discern that it is FULL of logical fallacies, as well as conveniently avoiding the most significant 'questions'.
    The Kybalion is an early XX century text (I think you know it, but there's always a lot of confusion and people thinking that it's 2000 years old) and is not part of the "classical" Hermetic literature...

    ... and it's really a bad book.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarrox View Post
    @Andro + @Dev:

    Many thanks for your statements, its something to think about again. And also for the book recommendations!


    Check out this thread: The Kybalion The 7 Hermetic-Principles

    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    ...and it's really a bad book.
    Why?

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #24
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    Very cool to see someone posting some Walter Russell. Certainly a man more people need to study, especially those who study the esoteric arts. Nice post, Amon! Have you had the chance to read any of his other works?

    Regarding Gnosticism, these are some of my favorite Gnostic texts, being that I can see the Alchemy parallel with these:

    The Reality Of The Rulers

    On the Origin Of The World

    The Treatise On The Resurrection

    Eugnostos The Blessed

    Allogenes

    The Paraphrase Of Shem

    Melchizedek

    The Thought Of Norea

    The Prayer Of Thanksgiving

    A Valentinian Exposition

    Authoritative Teaching

    The Revelation Of Adam

    The Three Steles Of Seth

    Three Forms Of First Thought

    The Sophia Of Jesus Christ

    The Second Treatise Of The Great Seth

    The Testimony Of Truth

    The Gospel Of Truth

    The Teachings Of Silvanus


    ...As far as Hermeticism goes, everyone needs to read "The Divine Pymander" if they have not.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post


    Check out this thread: The Kybalion The 7 Hermetic-Principles



    Why?

    I can't say it better than Andro:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Upon second reading, the book is deep in some aspects, but rather naive and immature in others.

    There are lots of childish explanations, logical fallacies and assumptions based on the Author's personal/cultural perspective and influences (Herbert Spencer, Theosophy, some 'New Thought', etc...)

    He tends to repeatedly belittle mankind/the human experience ("we poor, petty mortals" and such...) and also to prove his assumptions based on the same assumptions he is trying to prove...

    IMO, this work is definitely NOT a comprehensive foundation of Hermetic Philosophy. It is full of 'bugs'.
    The book has SOME interesting concepts, but the ONLY interesting ones are quite "universal" and you can find them almost everywhere (i.e, "The Law of Polarity"... "The Law of Correspondences"... these ideas, well, who has NOT read them a thousand times in previous books?).

    I completely agree with the theory that the author is Atkinson (or maybe Atkinson & Foster Case)... and it is very "dated" and influenced by some New Agey ideas of the time (the least interesting side of Theosophy, the Western "orientalism" that was popular at the time, some nuances of Kardec's spiritism, some decadent Mesmerism... a lot of fin de siècle puritanism).

    I know it is the "Bible of Alchemy" for a lot of persons... I simply don't see much value in it.

  6. #26
    The gnostics did not believe in the fallen angel concept of Lucifer, that is a concept the church invented. The demiurge/satan was never in the true kingdom of God "the realm of barbelo/light", rather he/it was created in the lower realms and has no knowledge of the higher planes.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherSage View Post
    The gnostics did not believe in the fallen angel concept of Lucifer, that is a concept the church invented. The demiurge/satan was never in the true kingdom of God "the realm of barbelo/light", rather he/it was created in the lower realms and has no knowledge of the higher planes.
    I some Gnostic materials, the 'Christ' office is divided between 'Christ Jesus' (White Sun) and 'Christ Lucifer' (Black Sun). In the more anthropomorphized models, The 'White Sun Christ' is considered 'male' and the 'Black Sun Christ' is considered 'female' (as a sort of 'womb' containing the realm of infinite and UN-Specified potential/probability).

    'Satan' is a different Archetype altogether, more comparable to the Gnostic 'Demiurge' (who is merely posing as 'creator', as there is no such thing as 'creator', since everything ALREADY 'is', outside the realm of space/time perception), the same 'Demiurge' who actually fixes/collapses probabilities (via 'White Solar' Intent) and according to its own centralized 'plans', as opposed to every one being able (and having the CONSCIOUSLY ACCESSSIBLE choice) to fix/collapse their own version(s)/variations from the Ocean of Possibilities that exists as potential on the 'other side of the 'Veil'.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    I know it is the "Bible of Alchemy" for a lot of persons... I simply don't see much value in it.
    It is not an important book for me really - so I don't care to defend it, however if you and Andro share the same reasons why it is "not good" then there are some things of those reasons that I don't agree with at all. The reasons you give bug me, not that they discredit the Kybalion (could not care less), but the reasons on their own makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro and zoas23 (by association) View Post
    There are lots of childish explanations, logical fallacies and assumptions based on the Author's personal/cultural perspective and influences (Herbert Spencer, Theosophy, some 'New Thought', etc...).
    I personally love childish simpicity. There is nothing worse than the Phd vomit of academia.

    To discount something using the term logical fallacy is a logical fallacy... but the meaning of the term basically - if one has a certain outlook on reality - can be applied to any statement... EVERYTHING can be viewed as a logical fallacy. In social media alt-right and SJW and those people usually call each other out using this term. For me personally it is nothing more than a slogan used by those that have no deep thinking at all, and are simply trying to discredit any argument with a fancy term that is stupid to begin with. Now I know neither of you fall in these categories, just wanted to point out my feeling on that term.

    EVERYTHING is based on the Author... so that is not a reason either in my opinion.

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." - Herbert Spencer

    Considering the current state of affairs in the world looks like a job well done. LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherSage View Post
    The gnostics did not believe in the fallen angel concept of Lucifer, that is a concept the church invented. The demiurge/satan was never in the true kingdom of God "the realm of barbelo/light", rather he/it was created in the lower realms and has no knowledge of the higher planes.
    Gnostics viewed the God in the Old Testament as the Demiurge. To explain this term to normal Christians, novices and such I would use the name Satan, to simplify. Doesn't really matter if there was or was not a Satan. It's all allegory regardless and an allegory must be adaptable.

    The Serpent was the good guy. Like Jesus said much later: "Be wise as Serpents."

    Last edited by Awani; 01-19-2017 at 07:57 PM. Reason: add link
    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  9. #29
    I think the Kybalion is a nice lecture for Neophytes like me. It offers some simple, basic summaries, something that breaks down extremely complex factors into a easy to digest appetizer. I think it serves well as a first step on the staircase to higher spheres of awareness.

  10. #30
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    Indeed you got to start somewhere. I started with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade almost 30 years ago... LOL.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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