Special Men's Club (Group Therapy)

[Awani]

First of all who would not cry being born in the cesspool of this planet: India

I am sure there are worse places, but for most poor people the ghettos of India is probably the closest thing to hell - at least from my experience.

But I think there is great misunderstanding also. And sometimes mourning and happiness is confusing. Love can be painful and also blissful. There are many aspects to all these emotions. As far as indigenous tribes go MOST - if not all - celebrate BOTH birth and death... and in particular death is dealt with in a manner foreign to the Western Human. They generally view it more as a transition, rather than an end. As is birth in a way. Certain tribes even begin to celebrate the birth of a particular individual even before the mother is pregnant, because they know "it" is coming in advance.

Since I have experienced both birth and death and burial of a child I know that birth is a joy, and death is a sorrow... but it does not mean it is unnatural. Death is a transition. It can be looked at with beauty or with horror - depending on ones outlook.

Years before I had a child I was opposed to the idea, some of the reasons have already been mentioned in this thread... and I had a few others as well.

Now after I have gone through the experience of having a child it is a bit like the Logos. If a person has not had the experience it cannot be explained to them. But thinking about myself I must say that the views I had years ago regarding not having a child are complete rubbish. And for me having a child is a totally amazing experience that no human should miss... as is the psychedelic experience and the sexual experience. Certain things are the reason this realm exist. Why go here if you are not participating?

Those that do not want to participate will not end up here... so in a way anyone who is here and don't want to be can only - IMO - blame themselves.

"The wound is the place where the Light enters you."
― Jalaluddin Rumi

[elixirmixer]

Not quite so.

Taking one's own life via common suicide is pretty useless, as one still ends up in the 'Recycle Bin' - not something a Gnostic would aspire towards

Yes I do agreed; yet there is a lt of secret men's business in relation to (and to sum it up briefly) the 40 days in exile, a complete and utter purge of all things worldly, of which many considered a type of 'death' to occur, and the re-birthing of the spiritual man.

Now this really means separation, the subject of my anthology essay. Christ represents the work (as well as others) but they never mention the fruit of their labours, although if you read between the lines, we can see what was going on.

Now you, Andro are the best person to chat with on this manner because it's quite clear for me that your soul has already gone through the sacred ordinance of separation, because, you can already 'separate' your soul from your body and explore other realms.

The 40 days separation, IMO, is te symbol of the sure fire way to engage in this level of separation. As most of us are aware, astral projection comes easier to some than to other, however, the work of the 40 days separation, I believe, is a garanteed allowance into the other realms. IMO. While this is just my opinion, if you look at the scriptures that talk about the 40 days, it usually results in 'other beings' and 'I was taken to this place' ect...

This is what I really mean by the suicidal tendencies. The tendency to just 'let go'

[Andro]

Now you, Andro are the best person to chat with on this manner because it's quite clear for me that your soul has already gone through the sacred ordinance of separation, because, you can already 'separate' your soul from your body and explore other realms.

I wouldn't make such a big deal of it. To some people, this ability to go 'out of body' comes 'naturally'.

Others, like myself, have/had to practice for many months until finally achieving it.

Others are interested but lack the time (or are too lazy) to commit to daily practice, and use the psychedelic pharmacopeia instead.

There are many variations and access roads and I'm not dismissing any of them, but none of them necessarily means that one has gone through some 'sacred ordinance'.

It's like taking the elevator in a building and referring to the elevator as 'sacred'. That's bullshit, if you ask me. Same goes for all the ritual and ceremony usually associated with it. If you need ritual/ceremony, you're still a 'tourist' and will most likely have limited or no access to the more 'restricted areas'.

Very few have what it takes to access the 'higher' floors, not to mention the 'penthouse suite'

The Inner-Net is 'huge', but not everything can be googled and good luck if you don't have the URL and/or the 'access codes'... No ritual or ceremony will give you those...

The vast majority of elevator-riders only get access to the 'lower' floors, which are ironically also the more richly 'decorated'. This is where you'll find all the 'gods', the 'mothers', the nature spirits, the various 'heavens' and 'hells' of different belief systems, etc... Again, perfect for the tourists... They LOVE their decorations, be they scary or seductive or anything in-between... And then the 'tourists' come back from the elevator-ride and feel 'initiated' or having undergone some 'sacred ordinance'... Not the case, IME.

This is what I really mean by the suicidal tendencies. The tendency to just 'let go'

Then I would say we are in some sort of agreement

[zoas23]

I wouldn't make such a big deal of it. To some people, this ability to go 'out of body' comes 'naturally'.

Indeed... though the same thing is valid for almost everything.
Some persons are incredibly and naturally gifted for soccer... Others play the piano like a virtuoso when they are kids, etc... Some persons need more effort than others. Why? I have no idea.

Others, like myself, have/had to practice for many months until finally achieving it.

There are techniques, but they are hard to explain with words... It's a bit like finding how to trigger it. A way to get close to understanding how to trigger it is (I know it will sound weird): yawn, but keep the yawn for as long as you can... It is something that MAY give some hints to the mind.

Others are interested but lack the time (or are too lazy) to commit to daily practice, and use the psychedelic pharmacopeia instead.

... This is not limited to OBE: our bodies and minds can go further than any psychedelic can. Most people who finds a way to induce a certain state naturally (and OBE is just ONE of them) often have the tendency to avoid the psychedelic that causes a *similar* state.

There are many variations and access roads and I'm not dismissing any of them, but none of them necessarily means that one has gone through some 'sacred ordinance'.

They don't even have that function actually.... nor they make anyone more "special" or "powerful" (and I've had so many of them that I can use myself as a source).

It's like taking the elevator in a building and referring to the elevator as 'sacred'. That's bullshit, if you ask me. Same goes for all the ritual and ceremony usually associated with it. If you need ritual/ceremony, you're still a 'tourist' and will most likely have limited or no access to the more 'restricted areas'.

The infamous ceremonies (which I like) have ZERO power. That's the plain truth about them.
So you are both right and wrong.
A "ceremony" is simply a system created by a CONVENTION (arbitrary) which CAN be used as a tool. I would not compare them to an elevator, but to a language of symbols.
The word "Dog" doesn't contain the smell of the dog, nor it contains the barks of the dog, not it contains the life of the dog... And yet it CAN be used to evoke them internally.
The ceremonies are simply a convention of symbols which are used to induce something... but the "trick" is not in the ceremony itself. I would not discard them so easily... though it's important to understand what they are. The PROBLEM with them is when some people believes that they have an intrinsic power: well, they don't.

Very few have what it takes to access the 'higher' floors, not to mention the 'penthouse suite'

English

The Inner-Net is 'huge', but not everything can be googled and good luck if you don't have the URL and/or the 'access codes'... No ritual or ceremony will give you those...

100% true... though that's not the SENSE of a ritual/ceremony... and those who practice rituals and understand them that way fall into the worst nightmares of self-delusion and weird obsessions.
The best metaphor is to explain them as a language... a language is simply words that define "things", but the word in NOT the thing.
The BIG problems begin when people believes that the words are the things they define... or even worst: that they can replace those things or are above them... which is not the case.

The vast majority of elevator-riders only get access to the 'lower' floors, which are ironically also the more richly 'decorated'. This is where you'll find all the 'gods', the 'mothers', the nature spirits, the various 'heavens' and 'hells' of different belief systems, etc... Again, perfect for the tourists... They LOVE their decorations, be they scary or seductive or anything in-between... And then the 'tourists' come back from the elevator-ride and feel 'initiated' or having undergone some 'sacred ordinance'... Not the case, IME.

LOL... exactly!

A quote I love from a book I love (Austin Spare's "Book of Pleasure"):

Some praise the idea of Faith. To believe that they are Gods (or anything else) would make them such-proving by all they do, to be full of its non-belief. Better is it to admit incapacity or insignificance, than reinforce it by faith; since the superficial “protects” but does not change the vital. Therefore reject the former for the latter. Their formula is deception and they are deceived, the negation of their purpose. Faith is denial, or the metaphor Idiocy, hence it always fails. To make their bondage more secure Governments force religion down the throats of their slaves, and it always succeeds; those who escape it are but few, therefore their honour is the greater. When faith perishes, the “Self” shall come into its own. Others less foolish, obscure the memory that God is a conception of themselves, and as much subject to law. Then, this ambition of faith, is it so very desirable? Myself, I have not yet seen a man who is not God already.

Others again, and those who have much knowledge, cannot tell you exactly what “belief” is, or how to believe in what defies natural laws and existing belief. Surely it is not by saying “I believe”; that art has long been lost. They are even more subject to bewilderment and distraction directly they open their mouths full of argument; without power and unhappy unless spreading their own confusion, to gain cogency they must adopt dogma and mannerism that excludes possibility . . . . . . By the illumination of their knowledge they deteriorate in accomplishment. Have we not watched them decay in ration to their expoundings? Verily, man cannot believe by faith or gain, neither can he explain his knowledge unless born of a new law. We being everything, wherefore the necessity of imagining we are not?

Be ye mystic.

Faith and belief are traps... destroying them is a good first step.

[Awani]

The vast majority of elevator-riders only get access to the 'lower' floors, which are ironically also the more richly 'decorated'. This is where you'll find all the 'gods', the 'mothers', the nature spirits, the various 'heavens' and 'hells' of different belief systems, etc... Again, perfect for the tourists... They LOVE their decorations, be they scary or seductive or anything in-between... And then the 'tourists' come back from the elevator-ride and feel 'initiated' or having undergone some 'sacred ordinance'... Not the case, IME.

For me the above is a clear indication that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is a tendency to regularly comment on things you have no experience with (like psychedelics or having children). If you have no experience how can you form a valid comment? Sure we can have a theory (I have those all the time), but the way you write does not sound like a theory... more like a firm "knowing".

You write, in the above quote, "in my experience", but you have no such experience... so it does not make any sense to say IME* (at least if you reference psychedelics)... if you would have written IMO then yes, then it would be more logical. IMO.

As for the rest of your post there is as much truth to it as there is bullshit. Humans are individuals and there are real OBE practitioners and there are charlatans... there are meaningless rituals, and meaningful rituals. And there are tourists, and non-tourists. For every "real" person there are at least two "unreal" ones, which is just an estimated guess on my part.



* If you, by any chance, base your IME on our ceremonies in Amsterdam then let me state that they have been extremely weak and far removed from what can really be created. Which is one reason why I don't want to do them anymore, because it is like taking a University degree and then going back to pre-school. For the most part it was nothing more than psychedelic tourism (although not for everyone involved), which is of no interest to me. It's like being an alcoholic and then suddenly gathering with a group of friends to drink water. LOL.

[elixirmixer]

So, your trying to get some serious Vegi opus work done so you can share your greatness with the world, and the. The wife decides to ditch you with the kids and go on vacation.

Now, she's gone and sold you gold so you can open up the new blacksmithing company you've been planning for months, and then, she goes and starts an epic shopping spree without your consent and starts cutting into the business finances.

You've been left with the kids all week on your own, which she has never had to do the whole time she's been a mother, you make it to Friday, excited because the wife is coming home the next day.

But low and behold, the bitch pulls some stored up crazy out of no where and starts fabricating adultery paranoia, mind you, hole your 500km from each other and the house looks like the aftermath of a home invasion.

You want I skitzing your shit, but the bitch has $7000 of your cash in her hands.

What do you do??

How's that for a problem solving equation.

I'm breaking down guys. Need alchemical help. Has anyone got any good medicine? I need a boost and want to try something new...

[Kibric]

I wish I could help you Elixir

[elixirmixer]

Oh well ill just have to get into it when she gets back. No time for lab work ATM im afraid.

Thanks Kibric. Your sympathy helps with the venting process lol

[elixirmixer]

So you know those mornings where you wake up with a hangover, can't remember anything, slothing through the day.... and then you walk out your front door to get into the car and then you realise that the reason you can't remember anything is because you were completely blotto behind the wheel and crashed your car.

It's one of those mornings.

[Kibric]

fuck it