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Thread: Secret Societies and Emotions (derailed)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post


    Look at history. When did coherent ideas/ideologies (the sort that of ideas/ideologies that actually benefit everyone, not just the powerful interest groups) ever have any significant impact on society? Did you know, for example, that poverty (over 60% of the world's population) is NOT accidental but maintained BY DESIGN? (and by confused/confusing ideas/ideologies)

    History and most mainstream culture & so-called 'values' are written and propelled by psychopaths and their trolling minions (a.k.a. 'useful idiots'). 'Confused' (& confusing) ideas RULE. Literally.

    And whenever 'threatening' counter-cultures exist or arise, they are either discredited and destroyed (by labeling them 'fanatical & narcissist', for example ) OR, more often, gradually adopted, hijacked, altered to fit the narrative of the psychopathic power structure and finally 'incorporated'. The Romans did it, and it is still being done to this day.
    And what's counter-culture, anyway? How much of today's 'culture' was 'counter-culture' before it became 'mainstream' and further heading for its inevitable decline, all part of perpetuating the Hegelian dialectic?



    Not nearly as interesting as the obsessive need to repeat this 'observation' in almost every post, almost like trying to become convinced that if it's repeated often enough, it will eventually make it true. As for the idea that counter-culture in many instances has become mainstream this merely shows the effectiveness of critical theory. The methodology for this was first codified by the ancient strategist Sun tzu.



    I assume you mostly refer to Zoas and myself

    Repeatedly disagreeing with quasi-intellectual (regardless how smart-sounding) armchair generalizations & speculations (a.k.a. 'academic trolling') doesn't necessarily indicate 'being in denial', just as having a teddy bear as an infant doesn't necessarily indicate lack of loving parental contact (of which I personally had plenty).


    Then again - if all you have is a hammer, everything else looks like a nail.
    You make absurd sweeping generalisations that history is propelled by psychopaths. Are you suggesting that historical figures and leaders all suffered from the genetic deficiency that causes psychopathy? Also the fact that some counterculture is now mainstream merely shows the effectiveness of critical theory, the methodology of this was first codified by the ancient strategist Sun Tzu do you think he was a psychopath?

    Your various responses just come across as ranting and more denial mechanisms part of which is personal attack; I am accused of something called academic trolling which I didn't even know about until now. Certainly you may disagree and your views could be interesting however the vociferous and personal nature of your response is striking.


    So discussions about how gay emotional intelligence may be is not this intellectual trolling; but suggesting a theory that regular tendency to promote counterculture is based on childhood experience is labelled as this intellectual trolling thing?
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 03-23-2017 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Added a bit and moved from wrong part

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    You make absurd sweeping generalisations that history is propelled by psychopaths.
    They are not absurd and not generalizations. Just as one example among many, google the list of countries that England has NOT invaded over the course of its recorded history. It's a very short list

    Power hungry politicians catering to greedy corporate interests, the constantly sending of people to die in senseless wars, religious/sexual/racial persecution of all possible varieties, the 'greats' of history who stepped on corpses to satisfy their pathological lust for power... Do I need to make another (long) list now? Textbook psychopaths and their minion armies of (often paid) trolls and enthusiastic/over-zealous 'useful idiots'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Are you suggesting that historical figures and leaders all suffered from the genetic deficiency that causes psychopathy?
    Yes I am. You don't need to go further than looking at your own national ancestry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Also the fact that some counterculture is now mainstream merely shows the effectiveness of critical theory
    As Zoas already wrote, you constantly confuse between cause and effect. Attentively read what I wrote above about 'incorporating the inconveniences'. Read it again, if you don't get it the first time. I don't mean it in a derogatory way. Learning new things can be hard, especially as we get older. I've read 'Golden Chain' more than 10 times through and I'm still learning something new every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    the methodology of this was first codified by the ancient strategist Sun Tzu do you think he was a psychopath?
    Quite likely. But he is often studied, quoted and revered by psychopaths (not only, but also).

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    I am accused of something called academic trolling which I didn't even know about until now.
    Learning something new every day

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Your various responses just come across as ranting and more denial mechanisms part of which is personal attack.
    There you go again with the 'denial' manrta. The more you repeat it, the more transparent it is who you may really be talking about. Projection is not just another river in Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    the vociferous and personal nature of your response is striking.
    This from someone who (if I remember correctly) liberally referred to another forum member as a 'Nazi' in the past... Besides, when in Rome...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    So discussions about how gay emotional intelligence may be is not this intellectual trolling
    Emotional intelligence doesn't have a sexual orientation. Depending on various factors, genetic or otherwise, different people may have different levels of 'access' to it. But it's 'there', regardless of those factors. The factors do not indicate the presence of emotional intelligence, only the levels of access we have to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    but suggesting a theory that regular tendency to promote counterculture is based on childhood experience is labelled as this intellectual trolling thing?
    'Intellectual trolling' is basically spewing fancy and erudite-sounding theories from a mental-space 'Ivory Tower', without ever being in the actual firing line.

    Additionally, we ALL come from our childhoods, and although we may be differently affected - none of us is immune, you and I included.

    Doesn't mean we can't try...

    Addendum:


    I DO agree with you about negatively destructive influences of fanatical/narcissistic 'countercultures', BUT this only occurs AFTER they have been hijacked, infiltrated and incorporated.

    A genuine indie/grassroots movement is never allowed to go beyond certain limits in terms of cultural/societal influence. It either gets destroyed, incorporated or sentenced to the fringes.


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    Last edited by Andro; 03-23-2017 at 01:55 PM.

  3. #33
    Your second quotation and comment above where you re-assert that all historical leaders and figures suffered from the genetic deficiency that causes psychopathy has not been proven and is simply opinion. An absurd opinion that would be easy to disprove by taking genetic samples of remains of historical figures should the need arise. All it would need is for one historical figures genetic makeup to lack the genetic evidence of psychopathy and your absurd assertion would be disproved. Because you make such a remarkable and ridiculous statement which has not been proven but you regard as fact there is nothing more to be done here. At least I accept I am putting forward a theory not a proven thing.

    It is part of the occult merry-go-round that deluded people who don't understand the difference between theory and proven fact offer 'spiritual services' and recieve monies from the equally deluded. Often this is accompanied by messianic tendencies where the 'spiritual leader' gives judgement on the spiritual state and likely progress of those they decide are in favour and those they deem not worthy.

    Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    All it would need is for one historical figures genetic makeup to lack the genetic evidence of psychopathy and your absurd assertion would be disproved.
    Actually only ONE historical figure need to have it for the "theory/opinon" to have a possibility of being true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    ...the difference between theory and proven fact...
    Is there really such a thing? IMO no.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Your second quotation and comment above where you re-assert that all historical leaders and figures suffered from the genetic deficiency that causes psychopathy has not been proven and is simply opinion. An absurd opinion that would be easy to disprove by taking genetic samples of remains of historical figures should the need arise. All it would need is for one historical figures genetic makeup to lack the genetic evidence of psychopathy and your absurd assertion would be disproved. Because you make such a remarkable and ridiculous statement which has not been proven but you regard as fact there is nothing more to be done here. At least I accept I am putting forward a theory not a proven thing.
    You asked if I SUGGEST it, and I said yes. I did not state it as 'fact', but suggestion. Stop putting words in my mouth.

    I am not convinced that psychopathic tendencies show up in genetic samples. Again, elitist 'ivory-tower' type of thinking. "No need to look at the sum of the symptoms holistically, because the genetic lab has all the answers". It's YOU who refuse to see the FACTS. Look at history and at the actual ACTIONS of these people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    It is part of the occult merry-go-round that deluded people who don't understand the difference between theory and proven fact offer 'spiritual services' and recieve monies from the equally deluded. Often this is accompanied by messianic tendencies where the 'spiritual leader' gives judgement on the spiritual state and likely progress of those they decide are in favour and those they deem not worthy.
    Funny you should say that, since you keep assessing my own mental state and its origins on almost every post here

    Yes, I work with shamanic healing professionally and I have actual results to speak for my work. I am not the only one who does this. You yourself practice Magick, if I'm not mistaken. I don't see why you have to go there, and it's not the first time. BTW, shamanic healing has apparently been successfully practiced (and still is) for much longer than genetic lab tests. It is my learned craft, just like any other, and it pays my bills while providing me with the opportunity to do what I love doing and be of assistance to others while at it.

    You have a problem with me because I keep calling out your numerous fallacies, while you keep refusing to open your mind to perspectives other than your own (hence your repetitive/mantra-style postings).

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.
    Indeed. Who are we talking about?


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    Last edited by Andro; 03-23-2017 at 03:17 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    why so serious?
    Not at all, at least not on my part.

    But being presented with such a 'golden opportunity' to practice my otherwise rusty debating skills, I just HAD to take it

    Plus, I'm learning some invaluable 'trolling' tips from my 'opponent' in this game, without which I wouldn't really stand a chance in (almost) ANY debate

    PS: I'll be 'standing down' for now, see if there are other perspectives to throw around on this 'topic'...


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    Last edited by Andro; 03-23-2017 at 03:39 PM.

  7. #37
    So you do not assert you suggest Andro, merely to suggest that ALL historical figures had the genetic deficiency that causes psychopathy and that history is totally driven by psychopaths indicates a poor grip on reality. You could not possibly prove this and just one example of a historical figure not having this genetic makeup disproves. In fact it has already been disproven by for example the genetic make up of Albert Einstein not having this genetic deficiency for psychopathy. He is after all an important historical figure whose scientific theories were proven and led to nuclear weapons.

    You question whether I am correct about the mania, denial and anger you express, looking over your posts I could be wrong but I do not think I am. This is merely a personal opinion though, if you are as balanced an spiritual as you profess to be (and others not) well I'm sure you can take it. After all I do not offer for sale spiritual services, I do not present myself as a spiritualy qualified person in the manner you identify on your website. I think I am safe from the danger of messianic delusion for this reason. The late Israel Regardie in his book The Middle Pillar pointed out that occult work can inflate unconscious complexes which can lead to for example messianic delusions have you read it?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    You question whether I am correct about the mania, denial and anger you express, looking over your posts I could be wrong but I do not think I am. This is merely a personal opinion though, if you are as balanced an spiritual as you profess to be (and others not) well I'm sure you can take it. After all I do not offer for sale spiritual services, I do not present myself as a spiritualy qualified person in the manner you identify on your website. I think I am safe from the danger of messianic delusion for this reason. The late Israel Regardie in his book The Middle Pillar pointed out that occult work can inflate unconscious complexes which can lead to for example messianic delusions have you read it?
    O.K... You insist with the idea that the School of Frankfurt was right (and Reich too) when it comes to psychology... I keep my idea that their writings are VERY dated and were written in a time in which "conservatives" and "reactionaries" had very oppressing views about sexuality, whilst the most "progressive" ones had more open views about it. This logical fallacy is often called "Post hoc ergo propter hoc".

    The fallacious syllogism would be:
    A is X, B is not X
    A is Z, B is not Z
    ______________
    X causes Z

    X = "sexually free".
    Z = "non fascist, progressive, open minded, non racist, non xenophobic, leftist".

    This way of thinking, this fallacy, can't explain a "Milo" and his racism, xenophobia, misogyny, etc... I would say that he has no problems in expressing his sexuality very openly... and yet he is the fascist that he is.... The Frankfurt school can't explain such thing*

    Sorry for the disgusting video (I mean his opinions):


    *O.K... Maybe Benjamin can explain it with his idea of "The aestheticization of politics" (fascism) vs. "The politicization of aesthetics" (libertarian marxism)... but that's VERY far from what you are talking about.

    Israel Regardie had some sort of fetish for messianic lunatics and was always following them (Aleister Crowley, Robert William Felkin, Frater Albertus...)
    Knowing the Golden Dawn tradition VERY well, I'd say that Regardie only knew a bizarre and crippled version of it, which simply came from the insanity of Felkin. His books can't be more inaccurate.

    LOL... Andro presents himself as what he is... nothing else. You'll never find him claiming that he can do something that he can't (I do not know many persons with his alchemical knowledge, so I often tell him that he's an Adept... he laughs and says that he's far from it).

    I know how to edit movies and I CHARGE for it, though I am explicit about what I can do and what I can't do (i.e, CGI special effects is not really my area, so if a job needs such thing, I simply say: "that's not what I do, I can suggest someone else")... I do not see the difference. My GF is a psychoanalyst, she does not work for free either (well, sometimes she does... and sometimes I do edit for free too... and the messiah Andro works for free sometimes too).

    LOL... and Axis, you offered to teach ME magic/theurgy... I rejected the offer because I already know some 6 or 7 systems and I do not feel the need right now to include another one. Are you qualified to teach magic? If so, why?

  9. #39
    I did not offer to teach you magic zoas23, i suggested Bardon's material to you ( which is designed for solo work) and offered to answer any questions that you may have about Bardon's stuff, nothing more.

    I have too many commitments to actually teach anyone magic at present which is why I withdrew from the hermetic academy. BTW when I was there (briefly) my services were entirely free.

    Edit: I have just checked sent items PM's to you zoas23, message sent 11-22-2016. I specifically state in that message that I am not teaching magic but am prepared to offer informal advice free of charge. How did you get the idea that I offered to teach you magic?
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 03-23-2017 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Checked PM sent items

  10. #40
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    O.K... you offered "informal advice free of charge"... my bad for using the word "teaching". So what makes you believe that you are qualified to offer "informal advice free of charge"?

    (Funny... I think you are assuming that I am mocking you and suggesting that you are unable to do such thing, whilst what I actually think is that you are probably familiar with the system and thus perfectly able to give "informal advice free of charge"... which is my point).

    Would you say that when you offered "informal advice free of charge" you were suffering a "messianic delusion"? Or could it be that you offered such thing because you can actually do it?
    (I do not know you a lot, BUT I believe that the latter is true... so, what's the difference????).

    "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" -the Bible, how avant-garde, right?

    But I prefer a passage from Austin Osman Spare:


    The DWELLERS on the THRESHOLD

    As we dwell on the Threshold to on extreme
    The intrinsic BEING is prermaturely nascent,
    Creating a CHAOS of Reflection.
    When we gaze into the mirror of our-SELF,
    And see our works as others judge them,
    Then we realize our insignificance
    To the incomprehensible intellect of
    the Absolute KIĀ (the omniscient)
    And find how subcutaneous our
    Attainments are.
    Alas ! we are children of EARTH.

    This I will call HELL of the intrinsic being.
    Last edited by zoas23; 03-23-2017 at 10:01 PM.

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