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Thread: Can you make the stone without the solvent?

  1. #1
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    Can you make the stone without the solvent?

    In the secrecy thread, everyone is debating about the need for a solvent besides other issues.

    So, my question is this, is it really necessary? Can we do without it? If yes, then how?

    I hope this discussion brings out new perspectives.

    *** ADDENDUM ***

    Many approach alchemy with the only thought that there is a solvent and they need to work with gold using the solvent. At least, that is the feeling I get.

    But I find this is leading many to pigeonhole themselves.

    My original intention was to get the readers thinking along a different line of thought. Secret solvent still enters the work, not in the conventional way.

    *** ADDENDUM ***

    Since working with Gold is extremely difficult due to the length and care that needs to be taken. How can we simplify it?


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    Last edited by Andro; 04-10-2017 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Merged two posts with almost identical content.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    In the secrecy thread, everyone is debating about the need for a solvent besides other issues.

    So, my question is this, is it really necessary? Can we do without it? If yes, then how?

    I hope this discussion brings out new perspectives.
    Answers, in the order asked above: Yes; No; Not possible.

    If you are wondering why, ask yourself this: can you make an omelette without eggs? The answer is obviously "No!" Just like eggs are the "agglutinant", which will form an integral part of the omelette itself once the eggs "coagulate" with the other ingredients into a "cooked" mass, the secret solvent/"water" is also an integral part of the Stone itself, it "coagulates" and becomes part of its final "cooked" mass. Many alchemists actually refer to it as "the food" of the Stone/Elixir. So trying to make the Stone without the secret "water" or solvent is simply futile. It's just not going to happen. The Stone/Elixir can only exist because of it (and its combination/union with the "earth" or "sulphur", which would be like the herbs, cheese, onions, potatoes and/or peppers of a French or Spanish omelette; but the most crucial ingredient are the eggs, you just can't make any kind of omelette without eggs! So with the Stone and its "water".)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Answers, in the order asked above: Yes; No; Not possible.

    If you are wondering why, ask yourself this: can you make an omelette without eggs? The answer is obviously "No!" Just like eggs are the "agglutinant", which will form an integral part of the omelette itself once the eggs "coagulate" with the other ingredients into a "cooked" mass, the secret solvent/"water" is also an integral part of the Stone itself, it "coagulates" and becomes part of its final "cooked" mass. Many alchemists actually refer to it as "the food" of the Stone/Elixir. So trying to make the Stone without the secret "water" or solvent is simply futile. It's just not going to happen. The Stone/Elixir can only exist because of it (and its combination/union with the "earth" or "sulphur", which would be like the herbs, cheese, onions, potatoes and/or peppers of a French or Spanish omelette; but the most crucial ingredient are the eggs, you just can't make any kind of omelette without eggs! So with the Stone and its "water".)
    I completely agree with you about the secret solvent. The omelet is a good analogy. It is not possible to make an alchemical stone without the secret solvent/water/mercury of the philosophers. The secret solvent is necessary to make a vegetable stone as well as the stone from metals (still working on it).

    Making a plant stone without our mercury is well documented these days. Operators following that methodology learned it from the writings of Albertus and Junius which are now major components in mainstream alchemy taught at various schools. I refer to that methodology as Spagyrics to distinguish it from alchemical methodology.

    The methodology of spagyrics destroys the matter necessary to make the alchemical vegetable stone. That essential material they replace with alcohol thinking it to be the mercury of the vegetable kingdom. What they produce, their stone, requires adept skill in the laboratory. Spagyric plant stones can be great medicines, but they do not behave as the ancients describe for a vegetable stone.

    The alchemical plant mercury is found in plants of course. Every plant possesses it. We extract it while the spagyrist burns it off as a gesture of return to the world. Once our plant mercury is extracted the rest of the parts of the plant the spagyrists use to make their stones can be discarded, or those parts can be used to make an alchemical plant stone.

    I believe our plant mercury extracted and purified is the basis for our vegetable solvent to make the Elixir of metals. This is the hypothesis driving current lab experiments for me. The solvent is a complex of "elements" derived initially from the plant kingdom that become integrated into what could be called a philosophical flux.

    The solvent is composed of what the alchemists called fire, air and water all derived from the starting matter. They are purified by rectification and joined to purified earth for a basic alchemical plant stone. The fire is found in the stinking red oil. The water is below it. The air is in them both and must be coaxed out.

    Once purified and joined the fire, air and water can be "cured" one way or another through ageing and fermenting with other "flavorings" to borrow from the omelet analogy. Then an alchemical dough is fashioned and properly baked into the Philosophers Stone.

    Though I have not done the experiment I do believe that the secret solvent could be obtained from eggs following the same alchemical methodology and protocols used for the plant work

  4. #4
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    Great words z0 k! But...


    No one here is in possession of "our Solvent".


    No one eve on the whole internet has shown anyone. Do you really think someone here has touched this miraculous Solvent?
    Last edited by Schmuldvich; 04-11-2017 at 02:13 AM.

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    @ Z: I like your chat about vegetable Mercury but remember, this is not universal mercury, and as far as I can tell, you will not be able to separate out the small amount of super special solvent that is in the plants.

    Also, come chat with me in vegetable stone thread Z.

    @ Schmuldvich, you have said that no one has the solvent a few times now. Alas, I think that some of our more humble members do in fact possess it. (Not me)

    Love EM
    Last edited by elixirmixer; 04-10-2017 at 09:43 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    @ Z: I like your chat about vegetable Mercury but remember, this is not universal mercury, and as far as I can tell, you will not be able to separate out the small amount of super special solvent that is in the plants.

    Also, come chat with me in vegetable stone thread Z.

    @ Schmuldvich, you have said that no one has the solvent a few times now. Alas, I think that some of our more humble members do in fact possess it. (Not me)
    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    The secret solvent is necessary to make a vegetable stone as well as the stone from metals (still working on it).

    The alchemical plant mercury is found in plants of course. Every plant possesses it. We extract it while the spagyrist burns it of.

    I believe our plant mercury extracted and purified is the basis for our vegetable solvent to make the Elixir of metals.
    What would you guys say is the difference between vegetable mercury vs. Alchemical Mercury (vs. "Our Mercury" if you want to go even further...)?



    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Everyone is debating about the need for a solvent besides other issues. So, my question is this, is it really necessary? Can we do without it? If yes, then how?
    z0 k's response pointed out what he calls "Spagyrics" which is doing things without "our Solvent" ala the methods of Junius, Albertus, etc. As z0 k said, these "stones" in no way do anything worthwhile and in no way compare to the power the Ancients had with their actual Stone. So I would ask, other than sheer curiosity and firsthand laboratory experience, what value do these "false paths" have in our lives?
    Last edited by Schmuldvich; 04-11-2017 at 02:25 AM.

  7. #7
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    I'm going to go out on a limb here:

    Vegetable Mercury is directly extracted from the vegetable realms.

    Alchemical Mercury is directly extracted from the heavens.

    Our Mercury is a compilation of Alchemical Mercury and some other things
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #8
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    Wow! Missed this the first time!

    I believe our plant mercury extracted and purified is the basis for our vegetable solvent to make the Elixir of metals. This is the hypothesis driving current lab experiments for me. The solvent is a complex of "elements" derived initially from the plant kingdom that become integrated into what could be called a philosophical flux.
    I've never thought of it, but damn that is an epic possibility. I have some well prepared silver white as snow, and typically I would use Spirit of Lead to extract my Tinture, but it would be cool to see if I can do something with vegetable mercury....
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    ?...............
    z0 k's response pointed out what he calls "Spagyrics" which is doing things without "our Solvent" ala the methods of Junius, Albertus, etc. As z0 k said, these "stones" in no way do anything worthwhile and in no way compare to the power the Ancients had with their actual Stone. So I would ask, other than sheer curiosity and firsthand laboratory experience, what value do these "false paths" have in our lives?
    Specific to Alchemy unless someone is prepared to show a method clearly how to make Universal Mercury (SM) what do you expect people to do? Also they are not 'false paths' they are Spagyrics nothing more nothing less. Further I can say many of the Spagyric preparations made by me have excellent benefits and various uses. For example Spagyric preparations aid greatly in seeing visibly Enochian angels in a liquid mirror the Spagyric being the body of the mirror. Said Enochian angels have given me good advice about the universal Mercury and plenty of exciting work I am now doing. This approach of having Gods Angels instructing in Alchemy is the original meaning of the word Theosophy. It is obtuse in my view to denigrate peoples work without actually showing ones own.

    Edit: Before you ask me to show it let me freely admit it is work in progress and I have not clearly and repeatedly made the universal Mercury, so it would be potentially misleading and unethical for me to show what I am doing with this currently. I refuse.

    ______________

    Logistical Note: Spin-off continued here: Guidance & The Angelic Hierarchy


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    Last edited by Andro; 04-11-2017 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Spin-off thread created.

  10. #10
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    Clarifying Post

    The stone is undetermined this follows that the substance from which it created must also be undetermined in nature. So, IMO, there is no vegetable, animal, mineral stone and only a single stone i.e. the Philosopher's stone.

    The solvent still enters the work, but not in the traditional way i.e. you need to do away with vulgar gold, yet must end up with the stone. Think along these lines.

    When you acquire the solvent by the traditional path i.e. fight with the dragon, it poses a significant difficulty. This is what I want you to avoid. Also, solvent obtained by this fight is passive in nature so you must know how to activate it. This is another difficulty.

    Don't look straight, think tangentially for therein lies success without much effort.

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