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Thread: Can you make the stone without the solvent?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    The Artist needs to prepare his starting Matter. Which, for all intents and purposes, is "already found" out "in Nature" just raw. Raw meaning that we must prepare this incredible Matter in order to produce the results we seek...
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I think it's more like a problem of basic arithmetic: I don't understand how can you agree with the "one matter only" claim when in fact that "one matter only" is actually made from the interaction between several substances, and many of the more honest alchemists, including the above cited Fulcanelli, openly admit it without any problem. It is therefore not really "one matter only". For the "one matter only" claim to be 100% true all you would have to do is pick up "one matter only", what the claim literally says, and then work on it BY ITSELF, NOTHING ELSE ADDED TO IT. Now you tell me how in blazes can you possibly prepare the secret solvent from "one matter only" because the only thing you can do to that "one matter only" is heat it by itself inside a flask, there is nothing else you can do to it, if you add ANYTHING to it (even something like moisture from the air, A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G-!) then the claim is no longer true and it is obviously misleading, because you would in fact be working with more than "one matter only". So there is no way that this is going to happen. No single natural substance heated by itself, nothing else added to it in any way, shape or form, will EVER show you all the phenomena described by the alchemists. For centuries countless seekers who fell for this trap took all sorts of minerals, or plant or animal derived products by themselves, without mixing them with any other, and proceeded to distill and/or digest them. Of course, none found anything of what the alchemists described. The reason is simple: the "one matter only" they spoke about is really an artificial concoction (what the above cited Fulcanelli calls the "Philosophical Mercury") made by the alchemist himself, and he does this by making several carefully selected matters in the right proportions interact with each other (yes, "reactions", folks, without them NOTHING happens), first to produce the secret solvent, and then to produce the "sulphur" or "earth" that will be joined to it "radically" to form the Stone/Elixir, and not something they fortunately and very conveniently found "somewhere" already made for them by nature ready to be "cooked" up into the Stone.


    Last edited by Schmuldvich; 04-28-2017 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Added another quote

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post


    Some other quotes from the same source you quoted above (viz. Grasshof's "The Greater and Lesser Edifier"):

    You should note further that only three items (respective loquendo) are necessary to the perfection of the tinctured Stone, in which, if it is correctly prepared, the mastery of this entire Art consists; namely, the Stone of the Sun, which signifies or includes the Red Lion: Red, incombustible Sulphur; and after this the Stone of the Moon, in which the pure and clear, incombustible white Sulphur dominates, as is explained in CLANGOR BUCCINAE in TURBA fol. 484. “In the lunar SUBJECTO there is a white Sulphur.” And, finally, the Stone in which our Mercury contains both natures, the white as well as the red. This is the basis of the entire mastery, since our Mercury is the earth, into which one sows, and which brings forth. It is the third Stone, which is the intermediary between the first two, and includes both their natures within itself: “Nam Lapis Mercurli amplectitur utramque naturam”, as has been said. You should conceal completely these three metallic and mineral species from the common uncomprehending and unworthy people and let the fools wander on their own false paths, for they are not predestined or foreordained to this knowledge, and it will remain closed to them until they can bring the Sun and the Moon into one body...

    This point is to be well noted, for many people have erred therein and think that when they have the MERCURIUM PHILOSOPHORUM or the SAL METALLORUM, then they have also the PRIMAM MAPERIAM. No; but rather it will first become the PRIMA MATERIA after the Composition has occured, of both the Man and the Wife, as is attested by the Count in fol. 21 in fine and 22. There he says: “In principio turn demum ista conjunctio dicitur prima materia et non prius”. Then only after the conjunction or composition is it called the first material of the Stone, or of all metals. In this connection read TURBA, fol. 415, 364 and so on...

    Hermes the great King and Father of the Philosophers, says in his book, DE CHAO GENERALI (chapter 19, fol. 268, n. 14): “The most excellent purification of our Mercury is that one removes from it its leaden darkness or form with the help of wine, so that it is made glorious, clear and translucent, like crystalline transparent Salt. This cannot be done, unless the FORMA METALLICA is removed, so that a spiritual essence is created, as is intended in the solution”...


    Also TURBA part 1: “Our white camel is the seventh in the number. According to the exalted philosophers, the Sun and the Moon, as well as Jupiter, our Mars and Venus, are contained and gathered in our Mercury, but Saturn is the seventh, in which all of them are contained and united. He is the spatula, the sword, the knife and the incision of that which is born in miracle, with which one can resist one’s enemies, and in addition a cask of good wine.” What could be more clearly or distinctly said; he even provides additionally the agent of dissolution, for this is contained in the wine cask. This is, in the first place, wine, which is Spiritus Vini; but it is also Acetum Vini, Sal Tartari, and other things as well, in addition to which other agents may be used. These, however, may not remain, but must be removed again after the Solution....

    Magister Degenhardus, Lullius and Matthesius, in his SAREPTA CONCIONE 3, write that the material of the metals should be like buttermilk before it hardens into a metallic form, and that it can be spread like butter. They call it GUR, and I have found it myself in mines where Nature has made lead. And if one is also able to make such a material here above the earth, then that should be a sure sign not only that one has the correct MATERIA, but also that one is undoubtably on the right path. This I can make, praise be to GOD, with my own hands. When left in warmth an hour it goes into a state of Putrefaction, so that it turns black, then reddish, and finally red-brown. The philosophers call it Lac Virginis, the Milk of the Virgin. Thus, if one puts a little SALIS METALLICI in our water, it becomes like a white milk, and if one puts a lot therein, then it turns thick like butter and can be spread like fat or a similiar substance. I have thought it well to mention this, in order that you may harbor no doubts concerning the MATERIA...


    Conclusion: Grasshof obviously did NOT work with "one matter only" but with several. Like I told you before many times, the whole "only one matter" thing is a HUGE TRAP. Do not fall for it. It will never get you anywhere.
    Last edited by JDP; 04-28-2017 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #43
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    You cannot make the stone without the solvent because the corpus has the four elements contained in it but they are loosely bound, secondly there is earthy impurity's clinging to them. The only way to both separate the impure from the pure and unify the four elements is to dissolve the corpus.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post


    "The artist must gradually purify without heat"

    "They can be brought to perfection by means of a steady subsequent cooking or digestion"

    These two quotations seem to contradict and I have noticed similar statements in other text I have read.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    "The artist must gradually purify without heat"

    "They can be brought to perfection by means of a steady subsequent cooking or digestion"

    These two quotations seem to contradict and I have noticed similar statements in other text I have read.

    Perhaps they are referring to PHILOSOPHIC cooking ?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I think it's more like a problem of basic arithmetic: I don't understand how can you agree with the "one matter only" claim when in fact that "one matter only" is actually made from the interaction between several substances, and many of the more honest alchemists, including the above cited Fulcanelli, openly admit it without any problem. It is therefore not really "one matter only". For the "one matter only" claim to be 100% true all you would have to do is pick up "one matter only", what the claim literally says, and then work on it BY ITSELF, NOTHING ELSE ADDED TO IT. Now you tell me how in blazes can you possibly prepare the secret solvent from "one matter only" because the only thing you can do to that "one matter only" is heat it by itself inside a flask, there is nothing else you can do to it, if you add ANYTHING to it (even something like moisture from the air, A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G-!) then the claim is no longer true and it is obviously misleading, because you would in fact be working with more than "one matter only". So there is no way that this is going to happen. No single natural substance heated by itself, nothing else added to it in any way, shape or form, will EVER show you all the phenomena described by the alchemists. For centuries countless seekers who fell for this trap took all sorts of minerals, or plant or animal derived products by themselves, without mixing them with any other, and proceeded to distill and/or digest them. Of course, none found anything of what the alchemists described. The reason is simple: the "one matter only" they spoke about is really an artificial concoction (what the above cited Fulcanelli calls the "Philosophical Mercury") made by the alchemist himself, and he does this by making several carefully selected matters in the right proportions interact with each other (yes, "reactions", folks, without them NOTHING happens), first to produce the secret solvent, and then to produce the "sulphur" or "earth" that will be joined to it "radically" to form the Stone/Elixir, and not something they fortunately and very conveniently found "somewhere" already made for them by nature ready to be "cooked" up into the Stone.
    Ice melts in water does it not, isn't it a fact that Ice and water are the same substance just in different forms. The solvent infact bares the same relationship to the corpus as water does to Ice. So yes the stone is made from one thing only.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    Perhaps they are referring to PHILOSOPHIC cooking ?
    You mean the secret fire?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    You mean the secret fire?
    Secret fire sounds good for cooking.

    I think some of the old masters also wrote about gently cooking in vinegar.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    I think some of the old masters also wrote about gently cooking in vinegar.
    Not the one brought from the market.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Not the one brought from the market.
    Double vinegar

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