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Thread: Plant Calcination

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    How long did you calcine for to get your redness axis? Was this glass or powder?
    The redness only came into the salts when I fused the salts at 1000 Centigrade. My cheap little electric kiln can only reach 1000 degrees and it was bought specifically for plant works. The salts were white with red tinge but I wonder if this was due to the crucible because it is called a rose crucible and the inside of the crucible apart from the salts was also very red.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salazius View Post
    My two cents : Calcination requires very little things.

    First of all, it needs a simple source of fire.

    And a dish in unglased earth/potery (no glass, no metal, of course, no pyrex or it will explode) or quartz. Graphite can do the trick or pombagine also, but I'm not for it.

    The dish will be with a wide mouth in order to expose properly the ashes to oxygen, this will help the combustion and make them quickly burn and being grey, then white. If you have a lot of matter to burn, then only burn by small layers, it is a question of oxygen here, so a big pile will never really burn properly.

    There is no need to fuse the salts, or to heat it strongly, generally it is counter productive. If they turn blue, then you screwed it, because it extracted ions from the dish, and now they are spoiled with cancerous matter. Just a good dish is enough, no oven, no special crucible, no extra white colgate ashes needed. Makes not really a big difference IMO.
    The problem with this approach is that you can only heat the calcining dish from below (with a gas burner or with burning coals/wood, or with an electric plate), so the upper parts of the material being calcined do not get as hot as the ones below, closer to the bottom of the dish, so as you say, you have to do it in thinner layers, which takes more time and effort to accomplish. But by using furnaces/ovens/kilns you can heat the calcining dish and its contents from ALL directions, so the whole material gets evenly heated, and thus the calcination is performed faster and more conveniently.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    The redness only came into the salts when I fused the salts at 1000 Centigrade. My cheap little electric kiln can only reach 1000 degrees and it was bought specifically for plant works. The salts were white with red tinge but I wonder if this was due to the crucible because it is called a rose crucible and the inside of the crucible apart from the salts was also very red.

    I just went back and checked. The lemon balm salts had redness but the Rosemary salts not. There was no 'secret way' I just calcinated them on a stove and when that had gone as far as it could put them in the kiln and cranked it up to 1000 Centigrade. Sorry to quote myself here it's just the redness only happened one time.

  4. #14
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    I really do wish you old bastards were more interactive when it comes to the practical Spagyrics of this website.

    There can't be any harm to the art or to other people to help others make higher quality medicinal products.

    Calcinations:

    So I've been experimenting with calcination techniques. I've come to accept that so far Zoas was the closest to the mark with his "400 degrees for thirty hours" I would go as far as to say that 440 degrees for 40 hours is basically the perfect white snow calcination.

    I really do want to know the scientific way to move salts from white into the citrine and red. I'm hoping that the more chemistry minded amongst you may be able to explain how it is that additional oxygen molecules find their way into our carbonates to form oxides.

    I'm really looking for someone who would like to work on Spagyrics simultaneously and exchange a more interesting and interactive engagement than what we are used to from the spagyrics around here... Call me

    Another thing i think I've noticed, when you guys evaporate your water from your plant ashes, do you boil the water? Last time I did some ashes and I just had it on a raging boil, but I'm starting to think that boiling the ashes in part volatizes them, because my yield was significantly lower than usual. Have you had any of these results?

    I've totally unlocked some Spagyric secrets that I've never seen written anywhere and that significantly upgrades the regular Spagyric elixir into something that is altogether quite special.

    These secrets are free to those who actively, and for the sake of humanities medicinal evolution, share their experiences, advice and other knowledge bases, with the group.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    elixermixer, first, I'm a fan of yours, but you never knew it because I've been hiding in the shadows, but the mods were nice enough to accept my application. Are you talking about an initial calcining to get your white, or after recrystalization. The reason calcined "ash" will turn white is because the calcium carbonate is turning into calcium oxide, better known as "burnt lime," and it's the principal ingredient in concrete. I've since calcined only until everything becomes a light gray, and then go straight to purifying and washing. Mine might be the wrong ideology, but I think those calcium salts probably have a better use.

    Then again, I could be completely wrong, as CaO will form a strong hydroxide in water while CaCO3 will barely dissolve at all. I call it "the dark serpent" because of the way it falls out of solution when heating for my first recrystallization. With the water still hot, I filter the serpent out from my other dissolved salts. This is dangerous and can break glass vessels if you aren't careful, but my methodology makes it a bit safer I used to follow the crowd on this and calcine all the ash, but I find lower temperatures and extracting less-soluble salts to be better in my experiments, though it's much less. Most of what I have left is K2CO3, for sure. But if dried carefully and fully before raising the temp (IE not anywhere near boiling temps) something else is contained in the salt, which I only discovered when the temp was below boiling, but still hot enough to cause a visible vapor. I don't know what this mystery salt is, but my gut tells me it's important. It will only volitize when wet, and only above a certain temp.

    Just my thoughts from experimentation. I haven't been able to find anything, scientific, alchemical, or spagyrical, about this substance or its quirky nature.

  6. #16
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    Here is an example of plant calcination with pictures:

    https://www.alchemywebsite.com/steve_kalec.html

    He is calcining for days. Watch the end result, it is a much smaller volume than the one he started with.

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I really do want to know the scientific way to move salts from white into the citrine and red. I'm hoping that the more chemistry minded amongst you may be able to explain how it is that additional oxygen molecules find their way into our carbonates to form oxides.

    I'm really looking for someone who would like to work on Spagyrics simultaneously and exchange a more interesting and interactive engagement than what we are used to from the spagyrics around here... Call me
    I find the topic of plant ash calcination interesting from the theoretical point of view. We know that plant ash has mainly potassium carbonate in it. With calcination and dissolution we somehow get rid of this and we acquire an unknown salt that was hiding in there. In this thread we suspect that the white salts can not be potassium carbonate according to their properties:
    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...ht=Calcination
    (for example they dont melt in high temperature. Potassium carbonate does. Also they seem to boil off with water.)

    The question is how the process of calcination can remove the potassium carbonate and leave the white salts? Both of them are soluble in water but something happens during the process. If anyone is interested discussing a possible theory we can continue.

  7. #17
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    Have you done some basic qualitative analysis to see if carbonate, potassium and other ions are present?

    I'd do that first, then after having ruled out some possible ingredients, speculate on others and subsequently test those.

    I'd say he got K2O due to prolonged heating, which deliquecses and forms KOH.

    Similar things take place when CaCO3 is heated on high temperatures after some time.

    Just an idea.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    The question is how the process of calcination can remove the potassium carbonate and leave the white salts? Both of them are soluble in water but something happens during the process. If anyone is interested discussing a possible theory we can continue.
    Lately I’ve been considering ‘philosophical calcination’ of plant matter, such as an acid-to-base reaction/extraction, or to precipitate the salts out of solution.

    In a way it could still be calcination, but without the heat.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    Lately I’ve been considering ‘philosophical calcination’ of plant matter, such as an acid-to-base reaction/extraction, or to precipitate the salts out of solution.

    In a way it could still be calcination, but without the heat.
    Yes, we are suspecting this in this thread:
    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...sh-Precipitate
    but, there is a major difference between the calcined white salts and the acid-base extracted precipitate. The former are soluble in water while the latter is not. So one cannot continue the spagyrics process unless he finds a way to somehow make them soluble. This could involve reduction in a reverberating furnace for example but this is just my wild guess.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Have you done some basic qualitative analysis to see if carbonate, potassium and other ions are present?

    I'd do that first, then after having ruled out some possible ingredients, speculate on others and subsequently test those.
    No, I haven't made those salts that require days of calcination. Few people on this forum say they have done it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    I'd say he got K2O due to prolonged heating, which deliquecses and forms KOH.
    You think that the white salts are KOH?

    My idea is that the potassium carbonate decomposes with high heat (we can see this in wikipedia, it has no boiling point and in other publications). After a few days it is evaporated-disintegrated leaving behind an unknown salt. If the high heat can render it insoluble, this would fit my theory well too, but I haven't found any possible process that can do that (there are no insoluble salts of potassium!). Just untested ideas, but this is my guess.

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